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RE: [carfree_cities] carfree us

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  • Patrick McDonough
    I ve been following the let s start a carfree city discussion this week, mostly watching. At least in the US, and likely elsewhere, this is going to be very
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 4, 2002
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      I've been following the "let's start a carfree city" discussion this week,
      mostly watching. At least in the US, and likely elsewhere, this is going to
      be very hard to do in a developed country with a highly specialized economy.

      FOr what it's worth, I think your best bet is to think about another weird
      prototype living environment- anybody remember the Biosphere out in AZ?

      There's got to be a big U.S. city somewhere with an old gridded area that is
      completely run down. If you could somehow get 16 city blocks in a 4 x 4
      square, you could then seal the full area to car traffic, and begin
      redevloping housing, local merchants, etc. All of this would need serious
      subsidy and probably a 20-year commitment by pioneering residents. It also
      needs to be served by high-quality transit service so that residents can go
      out into the larger area for jobs, and others can commute in to work. Maybe
      if you can get Bill Gates to buy out someplace...or even, if a place is very
      run down and has few residents, take it by eminent domain as long as any
      displaced residents are given affordable housing within the development?

      I've lived and worked in the ultimate carfree city (Venice) and it's clear
      that a carfree place needs to have strong ties to the regional and global
      economy to be sustainable. That's why I think you will need to go for a
      district in an existing city with good transit.

      Patrick McDonough

      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Rob Hines [mailto:robhines@...]
      > Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 8:41 PM
      > To: carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [carfree_cities] carfree us
      >
      >
      > I've spoken to David Ceaser of the group in the States, trying to
      > establish a car free city, he seemed receptive to the idea of building
      > or converting an exiisting district in Canada. Perhaps joining there
      > database would be the best thing to do. However, I don't think that a
      > car free city in the US is a livable option for myself, and I'm
      > guessing it's not for most other Canadians?
      >
      > Rob Hines
      > 104-165 Lowther Ave
      > Toronto ON M5R 1E5
      > robhines@...
      > 416.944.3856
      >
      >
      > To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      > carfree_cities-unsubscribe@...
      > Group address: http://www.egroups.com/group/carfree_cities/
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • coyote_clown
      ... this week, ... going to ... economy. ... another weird ... AZ? ... area that is ... 4 x 4 ... serious ... It also ... residents can go ... work. Maybe ...
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 5, 2002
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        --- In carfree_cities@y..., "Patrick McDonough" <patrick1@e...> wrote:
        > I've been following the "let's start a carfree city" discussion
        this week,
        > mostly watching. At least in the US, and likely elsewhere, this is
        going to
        > be very hard to do in a developed country with a highly specialized
        economy.
        >
        > FOr what it's worth, I think your best bet is to think about
        another weird
        > prototype living environment- anybody remember the Biosphere out in
        AZ?
        >
        > There's got to be a big U.S. city somewhere with an old gridded
        area that is
        > completely run down. If you could somehow get 16 city blocks in a
        4 x 4
        > square, you could then seal the full area to car traffic, and begin
        > redevloping housing, local merchants, etc. All of this would need
        serious
        > subsidy and probably a 20-year commitment by pioneering residents.
        It also
        > needs to be served by high-quality transit service so that
        residents can go
        > out into the larger area for jobs, and others can commute in to
        work. Maybe
        > if you can get Bill Gates to buy out someplace...or even, if a
        place is very
        > run down and has few residents, take it by eminent domain as long
        as any
        > displaced residents are given affordable housing within the
        development?
        >
        > I've lived and worked in the ultimate carfree city (Venice) and
        it's clear
        > that a carfree place needs to have strong ties to the regional and
        global
        > economy to be sustainable. That's why I think you will need to go
        for a
        > district in an existing city with good transit.
        >
        > Patrick McDonough
        >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: Rob Hines [mailto:robhines@m...]
        > > Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 8:41 PM
        > > To: carfree_cities@y...
        > > Subject: [carfree_cities] carfree us
        > >
        > >
        > > I've spoken to David Ceaser of the group in the States, trying to
        > > establish a car free city, he seemed receptive to the idea of
        building
        > > or converting an exiisting district in Canada. Perhaps joining
        there
        > > database would be the best thing to do. However, I don't think
        that a
        > > car free city in the US is a livable option for myself, and I'm
        > > guessing it's not for most other Canadians?
        > >
        > > Rob Hines
        > > 104-165 Lowther Ave
        > > Toronto ON M5R 1E5
        > > robhines@m...
        > > 416.944.3856
        > >
        > >
        > > To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@e...
        > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        > > carfree_cities-unsubscribe@e...
        > > Group address: http://www.egroups.com/group/carfree_cities/
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > >
        > >

        baby steps. It would be progress enough for a lot of families worked
        their way down to one car per family. The immediate to obstacles to
        this are the placement, size, and numbers of schools, retail, and
        city government buildings.
      • Chris Holt
        I have really been enjoying entertaining the possibilities of something actually coming from this thread of thought. I must admit though, it sems as though
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 8, 2002
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          I have really been enjoying entertaining the possibilities of
          something actually coming from this thread of thought. I must admit
          though, it sems as though the ideas have stopped and the proces has
          died. Am I imagining this?

          We've got some wonderful resources available to us here, and some
          incredibly bright minds. Yes, it's going to take us a long time to
          see something concrete come about (babysteps) but I think it is still
          a worthwhile endeavor.

          Let's not see another good idea just fade into the sunset. If
          progressive thinkers with nothing to lose but everything to gain can't
          make this happen, who can?

          Chris
        • tenpagyatso
          ... can t ... Ok, I ll bite. ;-) As in most issues this highly charged the first thing to consider is the economic ramifications. If an area of an
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 9, 2002
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            --- In carfree_cities@y..., "Chris Holt" <cholt2@c...> wrote:
            >
            > Let's not see another good idea just fade into the sunset. If
            > progressive thinkers with nothing to lose but everything to gain
            can't
            > make this happen, who can?

            Ok, I'll bite. ;-)

            As in most issues this highly charged the first thing to consider is
            the economic ramifications. If an area of an already-existing city is
            walled off from auto traffic the business owners in that area will
            need to be able to continue to exist.

            How big would this area be? I think to begin any form of
            constructive discussion we should build a model.

            Can anyone think of a city we could use for this thought
            experiment? This would be a good place for us to start.

            - Steven
          • T. J. Binkley
            ... ...Anyone (individual or group) who can locate and gain control over a suitable site, and get construction financing (a developer with a strong track
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 9, 2002
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              >Let's not see another good idea just fade into the sunset. If
              >progressive thinkers with nothing to lose but everything to gain can't
              >make this happen, who can?

              ...Anyone (individual or group) who can locate and gain control over a
              suitable site, and get construction financing (a developer with a strong
              track record of successful multifamily housing and urban mixed-use
              projects, who can persuade a bank, or a cadre of aggressive, yet patient,
              venture capitalists, has would be helpful here).

              ...Anyone who has an uncle, cousin, brother-in-law, or close friend who
              fits the above description.

              ...Anyone who can get some face-time with a progressive billionaire. A
              small project might be within the means of an eager multimillionaire.

              On a much smaller scale, an overview of how a group of like-minded
              individuals or families can start a project on their own (locate a site,
              get financing, etc.) can be found in:

              The Cohousing Handbook: Building a Place for Community
              by Chris Hanson.
              http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0881791261/qid=1034222881/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/103-5589792-2364617?v=glance

              -T.J. Binkley





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Richard Risemberg
              Tom Gilmore of Los Angeles is a developer who might be amenable to building a carfree district. He has recently revived a semi-abandoned warehouse and SRO
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 9, 2002
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                Tom Gilmore of Los Angeles is a developer who might be amenable to
                building a carfree district. He has recently revived a semi-abandoned
                warehouse and SRO hotel neighborhood in downtown LA. Real estate here,
                though, ain't cheap.

                Richard

                T. J. Binkley wrote:
                > ...Anyone (individual or group) who can locate and gain control over a
                > suitable site, and get construction financing (a developer with a strong
                > track record of successful multifamily housing and urban mixed-use
                > projects, who can persuade a bank, or a cadre of aggressive, yet patient,
                > venture capitalists, has would be helpful here).
                >
                > ...Anyone who has an uncle, cousin, brother-in-law, or close friend who
                > fits the above description.
                >
                > ...Anyone who can get some face-time with a progressive billionaire. A
                > small project might be within the means of an eager multimillionaire.
                >
                > On a much smaller scale, an overview of how a group of like-minded
                > individuals or families can start a project on their own (locate a site,
                > get financing, etc.) can be found in:

                >



                --
                Richard Risemberg
                http://www.living-room.org
                http://www.newcolonist.com

                "Hope cannot be said to exist, nor can it be said not to exist. It is
                just like the roads across the earth. For actually there were no roads
                to begin with, but when many people pass one way a road is made."

                Lu Hsun
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