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Re: Car Free City

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  • cndpandit
    ... able ... Ottawa ... added ... next ... build a ... for a ... space ... population, ... skills, ... database ... lol Wow I Understand. That is great. I like
    Message 1 of 19 , Oct 1, 2002
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      --- In carfree_cities@y..., Rob Hines <robhines@m...> wrote:
      > > YYYEeeeeeeeeeeeAAAAAAAAAAHhhhHHHHHH
      > >
      > > Thats what Im talking about.
      > >
      > > I was building my resourses and selling techniques, for I am not
      able
      > > to settle for not haveing a car free city as an example of the
      > > possibilities.
      > >
      > > My name is Christian David, and yes thats my real email. Im in
      Ottawa
      > > right now. I obviously am someone who will move to our new city. I
      > > have put a lot of thought in creating a car free city. Not only is
      > > this easily possible, land ownners and developers involved could
      > > stand to make a sick amount of cash. I have some ideas that Ive
      added
      > > to my own car free city that virtually guarantees its phynominal
      > > success. I have one question, are you considering moving right
      next
      > > to a fast train going to the city? Or are you considering building
      > > from scratch in the middle of the boondox with like only a frieght
      > > rail?
      >
      > Well I'm not sure how easy it would be. I'm thinking it would be
      > extremely difficult to organize the numbers of people needed to
      build a
      > successful prototype. Everyone has their own ideas about intricate
      > details, especially when they are coughing up a couple grand each
      for a
      > payment at the bank. I know I wouldn't want mine to be ignored. But
      > it's worth trying to find out.
      >
      > As far as location, I believe that we would need massive amounts of
      > country side land where there are few or almost no land owners or
      > industries, to minimize political friction. We'd need the open
      space
      > surrounding the city, possibly enough to feed the entire
      population,
      > granted that low amounts of animal consumption would increase the
      > effective use of surrounding land. It would also be advisable to
      > construct within 5 or 6 hours, by high speed rail, to another city.
      > There was mention of a prototype between MTL and OTT, but I'm
      > unfamiliar with the number of people living in those areas.
      >
      > In any case, a database of all people interested, noting there
      skills,
      > and well, the creation of what information to collect in the
      database
      > is a monumental task in itself. But it would be the next step after
      > lengthy informal discussion in several forums.
      >
      > Rob Hines
      > 104-165 Lowther Ave
      > Toronto ON M5R 1E5
      > robhines@m...
      > 416.944.3856


      lol Wow I Understand. That is great. I like what your doing, your
      acctually trying to organize the people of a city before it is built.
      That is truely incredible. If you want to know what I think, I think
      its Industry you should organize first, With freight rail. People
      will move to town because of the jobs, right. People can use freight
      also in the begining making it cheap to start. Take three counties,
      create a presentation, and well that cheap property will, before you
      know it, be some of the best valued property in the country. Im not
      aware, Is a county legally allowed, in Canada or the USA to say No
      CARS?
    • cndpandit
      ... a ... by ... model ... network ... individuals ... family ... met. ... would ... invaluable ... for ... Hello Chris, Its Another Chris, Just thought Id
      Message 2 of 19 , Oct 1, 2002
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        --- In carfree_cities@y..., "Chris Holt" <cholt2@c...> wrote:
        >
        > Rob et al,
        >
        > I was just having this discussion with a car-free advocate of mine
        a
        > couple of weeks ago. I am a firm believer in the fact that we will
        > never be able to enact the change we want in an existing
        > city/community. Buckminster Fuller said "You never change things
        by
        > fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new
        model
        > that makes the existing model obsolete" I have been trying to
        network
        > locally to build a car-free cohousing development for years to no
        > avail. Hense my desire to join together with like-minded
        individuals
        > to work with.
        >
        > I have been keeping my eye out for a parcel of land (100+ acres) to
        > purchase in southwestern Ontario somewhere. I have not found the
        > perfect one yet (been concentrating around Parry Sound - Huntsville
        > area), but I haven't given up. I am not held down to the city in
        > which I currently live (Windsor) and am up for relocating the
        family
        > for quality of life reasons, as long as certain conditions are
        met.
        > These conditions are out-of-this-world to John Q. Public, but (I
        would
        > hazard to guess) right in line with everyone on this list.
        >
        > I think, by all means, we should establish a data base of people
        > interested in pursuing this train of thought. It would be
        invaluable
        > for movement in the right direction. This can't start soon enough
        for
        > me.
        >
        > Chris Holt
        > Windsor, Ontario
        > cholt2@c...

        Hello Chris, Its Another Chris, Just thought Id tell you since its
        your neighborhood, I was blown away when I heard, Apparently there is
        an island in lake michigan that is a car free town resort.
      • Wilbur
        http://www.arcosanti.org/
        Message 3 of 19 , Oct 1, 2002
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        • Wilbur
          http://www.arcosanti.org/
          Message 4 of 19 , Oct 1, 2002
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          • turpin
            ... Mackinac, in Lake Huron: http://www.mackinac.com/ There are quite a few other islands where cars are used only as taxis or trucks, and most residents
            Message 5 of 19 , Oct 1, 2002
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              "cndpandit" <nimaid@h...> wrote:
              > I was blown away when I heard, Apparently there is
              > an island in lake michigan that is a car free town
              > resort.

              Mackinac, in Lake Huron:

              http://www.mackinac.com/

              There are quite a few other islands where cars are
              used only as taxis or trucks, and most residents
              travel primarily by foot or bicycle. Some of the
              Channel Islands. Saba. Etc. But these are fairly
              exceptional cases.
            • Louis-Luc
              ... A project will be presented to remove car traffic from Mont-Royal avenue in Montreal. As you will see in the following link
              Message 6 of 19 , Oct 1, 2002
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                > lol Wow I Understand. That is great. I like what your doing, your
                > acctually trying to organize the people of a city before it is built.
                > That is truely incredible. If you want to know what I think, I think
                > its Industry you should organize first, With freight rail. People
                > will move to town because of the jobs, right. People can use freight
                > also in the begining making it cheap to start. Take three counties,
                > create a presentation, and well that cheap property will, before you
                > know it, be some of the best valued property in the country. Im not
                > aware, Is a county legally allowed, in Canada or the USA to say No
                > CARS?
                >
                A project will be presented to remove car traffic from Mont-Royal avenue in
                Montreal. As you will see in the following link
                "www.montroyal-avenueverte.com", already 15,000 people signed a petition to
                eliminate cars from that street. I'm pretty confident many people from those
                who sign would be willing to remove cars from a significant residential part
                of that neighborhood: not only from that street.

                Could we all together form a "Critical Mass"?
                We would still need to find a solution to freight transport: how to get
                merchandises to the many businesses and shops. There could be a dedicated
                railed avenue to move freight as close as possible, then it could be
                transported to destination by carts or cargo bikes.

                This is different from the other proposals in this forum, as we wouldn't
                start from scratch, but from a dense neighbourhood, where a large amount of
                people live carfree, but still suffer from congestion and burden of car
                traffic in the environment.

                Downtown underground (carfree) city is accessible by metro. We could claim
                jobs are already available a few metro stops away remaining in a carfree
                area. The weakness I see though is although business are accessible, they
                wouldn't actively take part of the carfree city, unless of course they agree
                to turn part of downtown core carfree on surface streets.

                For leisure and nature, we'd need to make a carfree link to walk to
                Mount-Royal mountain, which is not that far from residential areas.

                Well, this is simply a thought for me now, but if Mont-Royal becomes
                carfree, that may be taken as a basis, a core, a first step towards a real
                carfree city project.

                I circulated the petition in my office floor this month, and will submit it
                next week.

                Louis-Luc
              • Matt Hohmeister
                I d be more than willing to live in a newly built carfree city--if I can get a good job. As far as setting up a new city goes, we can just use other new
                Message 7 of 19 , Oct 3, 2002
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                  I'd be more than willing to live in a newly built carfree city--if I
                  can get a good job.

                  As far as setting up a new city goes, we can just use other "new"
                  cities as examples. Off the top of my head, I remember Joel's book
                  mentioning New Delhi and DC among others as "new" cities. Granted, we
                  won't just pop up a 500,000+ city in a few years--it would take a
                  generation or three--or longer.

                  What I would like to know is what local taxes would be like compared
                  to other cities. Emergency services, police patrols, and public
                  services will all be cheaper, since they're not having to provide for
                  cars.

                  Unfortunately, there's one major problem I foresee: being taken
                  seriously. I once had a friend's mouth practically hang open when I
                  walked 8 minutes from my apartment to Waffle House to meet her for
                  dinner: "This is not Europe--you can't do that.".

                  Put simply, I sometimes have a very hard time being taken seriously
                  when I make the decision to not use my car to get somewhere. I can
                  name examples of this left and right. I have people look at me in
                  absolute amazement when they find out that I walk a mile home from
                  work at midnight.

                  Some people see automobile use as a modern necessary--like wearing
                  clothes. These same people will see a carfree city as some of us might
                  see a nudist colony. If you move to a carfree city, do NOT be
                  surprised if individuals and businesses initially refuse to visit you
                  because they can't park right at your building.

                  > I've been wondering how realistic it would be to get a huge group
                  of
                  > people together, with a diversity of skills, backgrounds,
                  ethnicities,
                  > knowledge, and with one commonality amongst all, the desire to live
                  the
                  > car free life in a city as proposed by Joel? I've been wondering
                  for
                  > along time and decided to shoot my mouth off to see what kind of
                  > responses I'd get to that question.
                  >
                  > I suppose the question has a lot of other loaded questions, tons,
                  like
                  > which country, organized by who, what climate, who would finance
                  it,
                  > those moving there? How would we be granted a system of local
                  > government that would be a sufficient way for locals to govern
                  > themselves? So many questions.
                  >
                  > Aside from my desire to live in the car free world, developing
                  Joel's
                  > ideal city would set an example for the rest of the world as to how
                  > things are without cars. I imagine tourism, as in Venice, would be
                  a
                  > major industry.
                  >
                  > Rob Hines
                  > 104-165 Lowther Ave
                  > Toronto ON M5R 1E5
                  > robhines@m...
                  > 416.944.3856
                • Rob Hines
                  I like the idea of picking an existing city location I have to say. Making this place carfree is dependent upon enough car-free minded people moving there,
                  Message 8 of 19 , Oct 3, 2002
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                    I like the idea of picking an existing city location I have to say.
                    Making this place carfree is dependent upon enough car-free minded
                    people moving there, this is where I think the database could come in
                    handy. What is the vacancy rate in the Plateau?

                    A project will be presented to remove car traffic from Mont-Royal
                    avenue in
                    > Montreal. As you will see in the following link
                    > "www.montroyal-avenueverte.com", already 15,000 people signed a
                    > petition to
                    > eliminate cars from that street. I'm pretty confident many people from
                    > those
                    > who sign would be willing to remove cars from a significant
                    > residential part
                    > of that neighborhood: not only from that street.
                    >
                    > Could we all together form a "Critical Mass"?
                    > We would still need to find a solution to freight transport: how to get
                    > merchandises to the many businesses and shops. There could be a
                    > dedicated
                    > railed avenue to move freight as close as possible, then it could be
                    > transported to destination by carts or cargo bikes.
                    >
                    > This is different from the other proposals in this forum, as we
                    > wouldn't
                    > start from scratch, but from a dense neighbourhood, where a large
                    > amount of
                    > people live carfree, but still suffer from congestion and burden of car
                    > traffic in the environment.
                    >
                    > Downtown underground (carfree) city is accessible by metro. We could
                    > claim
                    > jobs are already available a few metro stops away remaining in a
                    > carfree
                    > area. The weakness I see though is although business are accessible,
                    > they
                    > wouldn't actively take part of the carfree city, unless of course they
                    > agree
                    > to turn part of downtown core carfree on surface streets.
                    >
                    > For leisure and nature, we'd need to make a carfree link to walk to
                    > Mount-Royal mountain, which is not that far from residential areas.
                    >
                    > Well, this is simply a thought for me now, but if Mont-Royal becomes
                    > carfree, that may be taken as a basis, a core, a first step towards a
                    > real
                    > carfree city project.
                    >
                    > I circulated the petition in my office floor this month, and will
                    > submit it
                    > next week.
                    >
                    > Louis-Luc
                    >
                    >
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                    >
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                    >
                    >
                    >
                    Rob Hines
                    104-165 Lowther Ave
                    Toronto ON M5R 1E5
                    robhines@...
                    416.944.3856
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