Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [carfree_cities] Re: Driving only when you WANT to

Expand Messages
  • Ian Finnesey
    ... I fail to see the connection between this and people driving when they actually want to or have no reasonable alternative even in the presence of public
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 13 2:05 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      --- dubluth <dubluth@...> wrote:
      > What is wanting to drive and when might this occur?
      >
      > perhaps I've driven enough to not ever experience
      > just wanting to. I also can't forget everything
      > else. It may be easy enough to forget the
      > environmental consequenses, but unsafe driving would
      > result from forgeting that constant vigilance is the
      > way to avoid most crashes.
      >

      I fail to see the connection between this and people
      driving when they actually want to or have no
      reasonable alternative even in the presence of public
      transit, as opposed to the way things are now.

      And if you've never driven on christmas morning, I can
      understand you not understanding how driving could
      possibly be enjoyable. So long as you can stay on the
      road, you can do ANYTHING YOU WANT.

      > Maybe car ads should be a little more honest and
      > depict their drivers experiencing their share of
      > crashes, traffic jams, filling stops, etc. It may
      > not be as fun, but hey.
      >

      With fewer on the road at any given time, these would
      be non-issues. (Hell, if it weren't for the fact that
      most people stop and start work at roughly the same
      time of day, these problems would be much smaller)

      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
      http://www.hotjobs.com
    • Louis-Luc
      ... I think driving is stressful, because you have to look for everyone else using the road around the car. It s more risky than taking a train, plane or boat.
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 13 8:28 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        > Why, it might be ENJOYABLE. It might even be as fun as it looks in
        > the commercials!
        >
        I think driving is stressful, because you have to look for everyone else
        using the road around the car.

        It's more risky than taking a train, plane or boat. I know plane and train
        crashes quickly draw the attention of news writers, but imagine how heavy
        would the paper be if they also relate all accidents related to the car.

        I think there is also a guilt factor, regarding the pollution you create,
        and the space you take up when you move around with a car. Just think about
        doing the same journey in some other efficient way.

        Louis-Luc
      • coyote_clown
        ... would ... day? ... You ve raised a worthwhile point. It needs to encompass things like shopping only when you want to, visiting only when you want to,
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 14 8:33 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In carfree_cities@y..., "agnostic_demiurge" <andy_christ@y...>
          wrote:
          > Forgetting everything else for a moment...how much more pleasant
          would
          > driving be if people only drove when they WANT to, or when they have
          > to move heavy objects? Instead of being obligated to do so every
          day?
          >
          > Why, it might be ENJOYABLE. It might even be as fun as it looks in
          > the commercials!



          You've raised a worthwhile point. It needs to encompass things like
          shopping only when you want to, visiting only when you want to,
          running errands only when you want to etc. The convenience and
          modern paradigms of automobile utility have allowed us to not put
          much planning into how we shop and generally go about things. Many
          of my friends now have cellular phones. Now they put much less
          forethought learning directions to drive places.
        • coyote_clown
          ... in ... else ... and train ... heavy ... car. ... create, ... think about ... The news media also don t make much of an issue of the massive amount of
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 14 8:39 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In carfree_cities@y..., "Louis-Luc" <exqmtl@a...> wrote:
            > > Why, it might be ENJOYABLE. It might even be as fun as it looks
            in
            > > the commercials!
            > >
            > I think driving is stressful, because you have to look for everyone
            else
            > using the road around the car.
            >
            > It's more risky than taking a train, plane or boat. I know plane
            and train
            > crashes quickly draw the attention of news writers, but imagine how
            heavy
            > would the paper be if they also relate all accidents related to the
            car.
            >
            > I think there is also a guilt factor, regarding the pollution you
            create,
            > and the space you take up when you move around with a car. Just
            think about
            > doing the same journey in some other efficient way.
            >
            > Louis-Luc


            The news media also don't make much of an issue of the massive amount
            of people in this country who die of cardio-vascular disease, develop
            type II diabetes, or asthma type problems as a result of smog. It
            just isn't as glamorous. But it is related to the lifestyle we've,
            using cars, made normal in America.
          • Ian Finnesey
            ... In all but the most rural areas, the alternative needn t be not going anywhere farther than a mile or three without a lot of forethought. Fuck, we re
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 14 10:55 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              --- coyote_clown <coyote_clown@...> wrote:

              >
              > You've raised a worthwhile point. It needs to
              > encompass things like
              > shopping only when you want to, visiting only when
              > you want to,
              > running errands only when you want to etc. The
              > convenience and
              > modern paradigms of automobile utility have allowed
              > us to not put
              > much planning into how we shop and generally go
              > about things. Many
              > of my friends now have cellular phones. Now they
              > put much less
              > forethought learning directions to drive places.
              >

              In all but the most rural areas, the alternative
              needn't be not going anywhere farther than a mile or
              three without a lot of forethought.

              Fuck, we're pissing into the wind. How many people
              get beyond the benefits a car brings to the things it
              costs them when they're thinking about it?

              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
              http://www.hotjobs.com
            • mdh6214
              Something else we need to look at is that most Americans tend to want to drive everywhere, no matter what the cost and congestion. People are constantly
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 15 3:01 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                Something else we need to look at is that most Americans tend
                to want to drive everywhere, no matter what the cost and
                congestion. People are constantly demanding lower gas prices
                and wider roads. In the suburban neighborhood my parents live
                in, residents tried [unsuccessfully] to stop the city from putting in
                a sidewalk on one side of the steet. Coincidentially, that
                sidewalk is now useless, since it is a de facto parking lane and,
                naturally, the police will not enforce such a thing.

                If you proposed developing a carfree area or closing/cutting off
                any streets, it would be very unpopular with most people who live
                nearby.

                I favor the right of anyone to live how they want, as long as they
                pay for it themself. I think that developers should be allowed to
                build car-only suburban developments--and pay ALL costs of it.
                Maybe that would fix Americans--when they finally have to bear
                the cost of what they are doing.

                Finally, we need some way to let Americans know [drill into their
                think skulls] how much car use actually costs. A lot of us seem to
                think that road money grows on trees...
              • Louis-Luc
                ... I m proud to be not normal , because that sense of normal is wrong, and is corrupting the society. The problem is that it s difficult to find more
                Message 7 of 9 , Aug 15 8:17 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  > The news media also don't make much of an issue of the massive amount
                  > of people in this country who die of cardio-vascular disease, develop
                  > type II diabetes, or asthma type problems as a result of smog. It
                  > just isn't as glamorous. But it is related to the lifestyle we've,
                  > using cars, made normal in America.
                  >
                  I'm proud to be not "normal", because that sense of "normal" is wrong, and
                  is corrupting the society. The problem is that it's difficult to find more
                  people sharing my opinion outside this e-group.

                  Now with cell phones, drivers become even too lazy to park the car and dare
                  walking to a public phone. So cardio-vascular diseases may be created by a
                  lack of exercise. Combine this with how well Americans eat, and you'll soon
                  see some Americans less tall than wide.

                  Imagine 2 centuries (or more) ago:
                  People had to walk 2 miles daily, at best on a sandroad, to pick up mail at
                  the post-office, also to drop by the general store, to visit a friend. They
                  had to cut, split and pile logs to stay warm in the winter, use snowshoes or
                  skis to move in the snow. Their work, whether on the farm, in the woods, or
                  maid in the house, involved much physical efforts. The average longevity was
                  shorter than today, because medical science was not as developed as today.
                  Imagine the medical science was as good as today, and the average longevity
                  would be at least as high as today.

                  Louis-Luc
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.