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Re: [carfree_cities] Re: Auto-Free Zones,

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  • Tom Tromey
    ... In this case, one approach would be to convince the business owners that street closure will be in their interests. They may have more incentive to lobby
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 9, 2002
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      >>>>> ">" == greenshift <greenshift@...> writes:

      >> This indicates a tragic disconnect, I believe, between the city's
      >> citizens and the governing body. This MUST be remedied, but how?!

      In this case, one approach would be to convince the business owners
      that street closure will be in their interests. They may have more
      incentive to lobby the mayor and council than the average, um, "man in
      the street" :-)

      Here in Boulder the Pearl Street Mall has been a raging success. It
      is fair to say it is the centerpiece of the town. I don't know much
      about the history of it, though. I read on the web that it was closed
      to cars in 1976, well before my time here.

      Anyway, maybe it would be a good model. Someone, somewhere, will have
      more information on how it was created and the ensuing benefits.

      Tom
    • Tom Tromey
      ... Jym =v= One failed implementation doesn t mean the concept is bad. Jym Indeed, there have been a number of failed implementations, Definitely. Recently
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 9, 2002
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        >>>>> "Jym" == Jym Dyer <jym@...> writes:

        >> Good Luck. It would'nt work. I live in Calgary Canada and in
        >> the 60's a walking mall was built on 8th Ave downtown that
        >> stretched for two blocks.

        Jym> =v= One failed implementation doesn't mean the concept is bad.
        Jym> Indeed, there have been a number of failed implementations,

        Definitely. Recently the walking mall in Eugene, Oregon was reopened
        to traffic (in fact I saw a note about it on this list). My friends
        who have lived in Eugene (I've never been) tell me that it was
        dysfunctional and poorly planned.

        Tom
      • Louis-Luc
        I live in Montreal suburb. I m convinced all city cores need carfree places. Next week-end, Sainte-Catherine street is going to be carfree between 9:00 and
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 9, 2002
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          I live in Montreal suburb.
          I'm convinced all city cores need carfree places.
          Next week-end, Sainte-Catherine street is going to
          be carfree between 9:00 and 17:00 both Saturday and
          Sunday for the yearly "Vente Trottoir".

          I've seen photos of Ste-Catherine from the mid 70s, and we used to see many
          more cars than pedestrians. Today, sidewalks are clogged with pedestrians,
          cyclist are king in the middle of the street, and I wonder why cars are
          still allowed to drive there. They seem to be wasting time there as parking
          is always difficult. All drivers I've met don't like to go downtown on
          Ste-Catherine because they say to me parking is too difficult. The only ones
          who accepted to go there wanted to zip through without stopping: useless.
          The same situation is true for more downtown streets. The car is more
          deteriorating the inner suburb: the ring surrounding downtown. They
          virtually clog all arteries. When they're not jammed, they drive too fast
          and stress everyone who want to enjoy life, as they draw the attention.

          Louis-Luc

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: bill norman [mailto:billnorman1066@...]
          > Sent: 9 juillet, 2002 15:26
          > To: carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [carfree_cities] Auto-Free Zones,
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > My name is James R. Martin, and I live in Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA.
          > I've renewed my interest and pro-bicycle/pro-pedestrian activism
          > after seeing a pedestrain hit and killed in a crosswalk near the
          > Santa Fe plaza about two weeks ago. A movement has begun here in
          > Santa Fe to close the plaza to all automobile traffic. I support
          > this action, and would love to have supportive ideas and help of any
          > kind.
          >
          > I need ideas on organizing, promotion of the idea, and knowlede as
          > to what I can say to persuade the yet unpersuaded that an auto-free
          > plaza would be terrific for the city. What can I tell shop owners
          > and managers who are in the plaza who might fear a loss in business?
          >
          > Good Luck. It would'nt work. I live in Calgary Canada and in the
          > 60's a walking mall was built on 8th Ave downtown that stretched
          > for two blocks. No vehicular traffic was allowed at all. By the
          > late 70's the city tore up both blocks to put in a lane for
          > traffic. They then changed the laws to allow for traffic between
          > 6am and 6pm. Other than that during the day you needed a permit
          > to drive onto the mall. Of course this permit came with a cost.
          > The problem is that we now have traffic on the mall during the
          > day and without a permit and I never see any kind of enforcement.
          > I doubt very much if this is an isolated incident and if you did
          > get what you want don't be surprised if it is changed down the road.
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
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          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          > To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
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        • cndpandit
          ... has ... in ... more studies , ... Hello Chris here. I heard santa fe was a little paradise. First off Parking is the main issue here. Is there adequate
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 15, 2002
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            --- In carfree_cities@y..., "greenshift" <greenshift@y...> wrote:
            >

            >
            > ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
            >
            > Tom, In the five years that I've lived in Santa Fe the situation
            has
            > been one in which only one or two of the four streets running
            > through the Plaza would be closed during the height of tourism in
            > the summer. The extreme density of pedestrians (and cars!) in the
            > Plaza, presently, leads many of us to believe that the mix is
            > entirely unworkable, and the recent pedestrian death (she was hit
            in
            > a crosswalk!) is pushing us into action to close the entire plaza
            > permanently.
            >
            > Unfortunately, Santa Feans seem to be rather disengaged when it
            > comes to activism. Otherwise, I'd say a solid majority of locals
            > would like to close the plaza to cars. Also unfortunate is that the
            > City Council and Mayor are apparently unaware of the extent of the
            > sentiment toward closing the Plaza. Even though my informal polling
            > has indicated a majority opinion for closure, only a few show up to
            > public meetings. This indicates a tragic disconnect, I believe,
            > between the city's citizens and the governing body. This MUST be
            > remedied, but how?! Santa Feans don't tend to march in the streets
            > or engage in 'civil disobedience', public demonstrations or
            > protests, and the like.
            >
            > I would be extremely appreciative if several of us could work
            > together to compose a well-researched and well-written statement to
            > the city government and the downtown merchants -- of any city which
            > is facing this hurdle. Such a resource could be made available on
            > the internet for all who need it in times like ours.
            >
            > The Plaza closure issue has been a perennial one here in Santa Fe
            > (for a decade, at least), and the city cannot pretend, at this
            > point, that it needs to continue with 'studies', and
            more 'studies',
            > and yet more 'studies'--only so that the issue can be forgotten
            > about! It's time for us to act, and I'm desperately needing some
            > thoughtful and knowledgable assistance.
            >
            > Has anyone here experience working with these issues? Help! Now's
            > the time because the issue has been in the local news quite a bit --

            > yet still NOT ENOUGH LOCALS ARE SHOWING UP AT MEETINGS AND VOICING
            > THEIR OPINIONS. I'm sure that the present City Council would close
            > the Plaza almost immediately if they only knew that a majority of
            > locals favor this move.

            Hello Chris here. I heard santa fe was a little paradise. First off
            Parking is the main issue here. Is there adequate parking around the
            plaza? If not what kind of Public Transport system does your city
            have? How diverse and rich is the commercial environment of the
            plaza? Is tourism the main industry in santa fe? As stated Im sure
            its a very large industry, where are the main hotels situated,
            compared to the plaza? Id love to do my part to put together the
            presentation.
          • greenshift
            ... off ... the ... =========================================================== Whether or not there is adequate parking around the Plaza is not a simple
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 16, 2002
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              > Hello Chris here. I heard santa fe was a little paradise. First
              off
              > Parking is the main issue here. Is there adequate parking around
              the
              > plaza?

              ===========================================================
              Whether or not there is adequate parking around the Plaza is not a
              simple question, in my mind. The City has been working on a
              perceived parking problem, proposing a multi-million dollar multi-
              tiered parking facility/building. But no one is allowed to park in
              the Plaza, anyway. So anyone shopping in the Plaza must walk from
              parking, regardless.

              ===========================================================

              If not what kind of Public Transport system does your city
              > have?
              ===========================================================

              We have a bus system. It is limited, but can grow.

              ===========================================================

              How diverse and rich is the commercial environment of the
              > plaza?
              ===========================================================

              Fairly diverse for a tourism-oriented commercial environment.

              ===========================================================

              Is tourism the main industry in santa fe?

              ===========================================================

              Yes.
              ===========================================================

              > Where are the main hotels situated,
              > compared to the plaza?
              ===========================================================

              Several large hotels are a very short walk from the Plaza. These are
              the largest hotels in the city. Cabs are also easily available.
              ===========================================================

              Id love to do my part to put together the
              > presentation.

              Thanks so much, Chris! Where do we go from here?
            • cndpandit
              Judging by what I can deduce with the little I know, there is quite a bit of work to do here. I don t think you should go to the mayor right away. There are
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 16, 2002
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                Judging by what I can deduce with the little I know, there is quite a
                bit of work to do here. I don't think you should go to the mayor
                right away. There are two options people or business. Either prove
                public majority support or, Get the hotels and other tourism business
                to make it happen.
                To prove public opinion you can probably get a petition sighed by a
                few thousand people say, I'm assuming your city is 1-300 000 people.
                Or a completely un bias survey completed by a couple thousand people
                would do well also.
                To get business in on it you have to do some selling.


                Please feel free to add to this list:


                Pros


                Added Open Space: can be converted to park, outdoor market, stress
                free walk way, relaxation, terraces, street parties, adds touristic
                appeal due to uniqueness, higher concentrations of people can gather
                and feel at ease,

                Less dangerous: point made

                Cleaner Air: ahhhh


                Cons (Create sollutions for this specific projects case)


                Disrupts flow of personal vehicles; citizens must be able to get from
                point A to point B

                Disrupts flow of goods; commercial needs goods to sell, Freight must
                move in and out.

                Link for map;
                http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?zoom=9&mapdata=hP0urGiog%
                2bcn2l7RvFUyUogA4Ufy3sUEuToZ4cW4ejqLZiua%2fOieK1dUPwkzLNzI%
                2f572m9uGlFwUDNhNlCa9vaed0dOGQQZFrYWoNw0N5aGk1brMAo52l7vMwXbIkgtbgbct3
                I7UzM%
                2f9xgA9GEt0gTNuczBVbS1fgyRdeepdFDz5cZaK5HoHYJ82nabC2t1imYWmmiqImK8tkop
                oZX7vCPtYlT5nYRlPpaxYB4EHZd0ozIVkq%2buOsHVT%2bVsLJlFWc4a%2b1%
                2fsnLrISzzXGE%2fV8ehxTfqQxdh9sRPpXWKVXSdA%3d
              • cndpandit
                Just to add a few more things. I completely agree with Tim Prescots Post; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/carfree_cities/message/4909 Perhaps all thats needed is
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 16, 2002
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                  Just to add a few more things. I completely agree with Tim Prescots
                  Post; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/carfree_cities/message/4909

                  Perhaps all thats needed is a couple speed bumps if danger is the
                  issue. That Im sure is very easy to make happen. If its an issue of
                  creating quality urban space perhaps a smart simple project idea
                  presented to local buisness will accomplish that. Either or where are
                  your thoughts?

                  PS sorry about that boched link on previous post.
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