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Re: [carfree_cities] Frigid Carfree Cities

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  • Mark Rauterkus
    Hi, Other car-free issues in winter cities/seasons: cross-country ski snow-mobiles (still got that gas consumption) On a lark -- let s talk about skating! Who
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 1, 2002
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      Hi,

      Other car-free issues in winter cities/seasons:

      cross-country ski
      snow-mobiles (still got that gas consumption)

      On a lark -- let's talk about skating! Who can do the Hans Brinker transit
      and skate on a stream, canal, river, flooded walkway?

      Cinci, Ohio is a decent example of elevated walkways/skywalks in downtown.
      Same too in Pittsburgh, PA when one considers the navigation among to
      hospital complex in UPMC cluster of buildings in Oakland.


      Ta.


      Mark Rauterkus
      Mark@... http://Rauterkus.com
    • michelle@giansante.net
      ... I love this idea! Because, actually, to make a frigid city carfree makes a lot more sense than driving in such weather! If we followed J.H. Crawford s
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 1, 2002
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        Henning asked:

        >let me challange the list to
        >expend a few neurons in considering the challange of making a place like
        >Regina carfree. Consider this.
        >
        >In winter we:
        >- usually have a permanant snow cover
        >- occasionally have temperatures down to -40C
        >- often have windchills which will freeze skin in less then a minute

        I love this idea! Because, actually, to make a frigid city carfree makes
        a lot more sense than driving in such weather!

        If we followed J.H. Crawford's suggestion for the city topology, the city
        would be much denser (at least distances would be closer together), as in
        a medieval village, which would alleviate the need for any walk further
        than 15 minutes. (And a bike ride would be much faster, of course, too,
        maybe only 5 minutes?).

        Adding to his topology, I would suggest a frigid carfree city would also
        have (to protect the people walking in frostbite temperatures for
        possibly up to 15 minutes):
        -a system of skywalks, and/or
        -a system of underground streets (Toronto is an excellent example)
        -the metro system would definitely be underground (to protect the tracks
        & to keep people warm while waiting)

        Am I forgetting anything?
        Michelle Giansante
      • Simon Baddeley
        The most obvious thing is the now completely accepted disparity in street clearing services as between road and sidewalk. If you are in a car salting of
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 1, 2002
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          The most obvious thing is the now completely accepted disparity in street
          clearing services as between road and sidewalk.

          If you are in a car salting of otherwise frozen highways in cold weather is
          usually adequate but clearing of sidewalks except in the foyer and car park
          areas of shopping centres and city centre pedestrian areas is minimal to
          non-existent. The citizen exiting a snout house to their car need only salt
          a few metres or less (if in their garage) of iced driveway to get into their
          car and onto the salted road.

          If you wish or have to walk only the agile with the right footwear for icy
          surfaces can go out without risking a fall onto hard surfaces because the
          sidewalks will be snowed and - worse - filmed with ice. Conditions are only
          marginally better for cyclists. Once you are on a salted surface you are
          fine but in the meantime a prioritised policy of salting the busier roads
          means the routes a cyclist would prefer as being freer of car born traffic
          are often next to impassable on a bicycle because they are so slippery.

          A car may have some difficulty on such surfaces but as long as the driver
          goes slowly they need suffer no serious risk of a bump or personal fall.
          Gritting policy is heavily oriented in favour of the carborn and the places
          they walk to from where they have parked their cars.

          I have raised this matter before. Given the extra costs of salting (let
          alone sweeping) sidewalks it was suggested to me that the problem would only
          be solved by householders being responsible for salting the spaces outside
          their properties - as is the case in several parts of the world (Germany?
          some parts of USA? Forgive my ignorance). This could be fine and a matter of
          pride in suburbia and where detached houses provide residence for a
          relatively permanent population - but how could it work in inner city areas
          of dense housing with a highly differentiated level of personal feelings of
          responsibility for the space outside your home, or where there may be a high
          proportion of disabled or elderly residents.

          I could see a policy of the kind I'm describing working in our inner city
          suburban road of fewer than 50 detached and semi-detached houses but I know
          other streets where it would be very difficult to impose a sense of personal
          and community responsibility for clearing sidewalks of ice and where
          regularly replenished sand and salt tubs on corners would be the subject of
          vandalism and flytipping. I am not saying it couldn't happen and in the long
          rum I am optimistic. I could, for instance, imagine more inventiveness being
          applied to mechanised sidewalk grit spreaders on the same principle as the
          road grit spreaders.

          Any more thoughts?

          Simon

          Simon Baddeley
          34 Beaudesert Road
          Handsworth
          Birmingham B20 3TG
          United Kingdom
          00 44 121 554 9794
          00 44 7775 655842
          07775 655842

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <michelle@...>
          To: <carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 3:41 PM
          Subject: [carfree_cities] Frigid Carfree Cities


          Henning asked:

          >let me challange the list to
          >expend a few neurons in considering the challange of making a place like
          >Regina carfree. Consider this. .......................
          ........., I would suggest a frigid carfree city would also
          have (to protect the people walking in frostbite temperatures for
          possibly up to 15 minutes):
          -a system of skywalks, and/or
          -a system of underground streets (Toronto is an excellent example)
          -the metro system would definitely be underground (to protect the tracks
          & to keep people warm while waiting)
          Am I forgetting anything?
          Michelle Giansante
        • Mark Rauterkus
          Hi All, ... Oh yes. These are typical downtown areas. Cars are on the streets. Lots of parking garages. But, they do encourage walking. Heated in the winter.
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 1, 2002
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            Hi All,

            >> Cinci, Ohio is a decent example of elevated walkways/skywalks in downtown.
            >> Same too in Pittsburgh, PA when one considers the navigation among to
            >> hospital complex in UPMC cluster of buildings in Oakland.

            Q:
            > Are these walkways elevated to get them above the car-occupied streets
            > below. Elevated walkways or skyways would not be generally necessary in a
            > carfree area.

            Oh yes. These are typical downtown areas. Cars are on the streets. Lots of
            parking garages. But, they do encourage walking. Heated in the winter. Cool
            (mostly) in the summer.

            I was in Cinci at a downtown hotel for a convention. Perhaps the convention
            crowd and the notion of a convention center is a place to champion car-free
            places. Consider the river walk in San Antonio. That (narrow strip) is
            car-free, right.

            Don't many "convention type settings" cater to the out-of-town traveler
            (flew into the city without a car).

            In Pittsburgh, there is a big hospital expansion due to happen. Hundreds of
            parking spaces (perhaps thousands??) are going to be taken in an area that
            is very, very hard to park already. The plans call for off-site parking (2-3
            miles away) and buses from the parking lot to the work place. The workers in
            the hospitals are the ones that are having the parking taken, mostly.

            This is an ugly situation that also presents some opportunities. Sadly, I
            have little faith in the powers that be thinking about creative and
            sustainable solutions for the greater community.



            Ta.


            Mark Rauterkus
            Mark@... http://Rauterkus.com
          • macwizzurd@aol.com
            In a message dated 1/1/02 9:41:57 AM, michelle@giansante.net writes:
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 1, 2002
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              In a message dated 1/1/02 9:41:57 AM, michelle@... writes:

              << -a system of skywalks, and/or
              -a system of underground streets (Toronto is an excellent example)
              -the metro system would definitely be underground (to protect the tracks
              & to keep people warm while waiting)

              Am I forgetting anything?
              Michelle Giansante
              >>

              Um-- a huge police force to patrol the tunnels, skywalks, and the shady areas
              beneath the skywalks?
              Howard, Chicago
            • Bruce Minturn
              Cinci, Ohio is a decent example of elevated walkways/skywalks in downtown. Same too in Pittsburgh, PA when one considers the navigation among to hospital
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 1, 2002
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                Cinci, Ohio is a decent example of elevated walkways/skywalks in downtown.
                Same too in Pittsburgh, PA when one considers the navigation among to
                hospital complex in UPMC cluster of buildings in Oakland.


                Are these walkways elevated to get them above the car-occupied streets
                below. Elevated walkways or skyways would not be generally necessary in a
                carfree area.
                Bruce
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