Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [carfree_cities] Traffic Lights (default red for road traffic)

Expand Messages
  • Roy Preston
    ... Never heard of it, Simon, but this is wonderful news. It s the first step on the way to common sense in town centres. Roy
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 4, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      >Anyone else know about plans for such lights?

      Never heard of it, Simon, but this is wonderful news. It's the first step
      on the way to common sense in town centres.

      Roy
    • Tony Brewer
      ... red ... permission ... especially ... is ... This was considered in Gloucester as part of the SaferCity* project. In the end, it didn t happen and instead
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 4, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        > Anyone come across plans for traffic lights designed to stand at default
        red
        > for traffic on the road? The motorist doesn't actually press a "drive"
        > button. When a vehicle is detected at the lights there is a pause and then
        > the lights turn to green to let them through otherwise pedestrians and
        > cycles, on a cycle route crossing at this point, can continue through on
        > what will be for them, default green).
        >
        > For local authorities to introduce this - as several plan to do -
        permission
        > has to be obtained for a specific scheme from the Department of Transport,
        > Local Government and the Regions. I understand why Whitehall want to be in
        > charge of such detail. If the pedestrian and cycling population -
        especially
        > the young - of a local authority area get used to default green on traffic
        > lights for them and then go somewhere else, there could be problems! This
        is
        > a change that should occur widely - but carefully.
        >
        > Anyone else know about plans for such lights?

        This was considered in Gloucester as part of the SaferCity* project. In the
        end, it didn't happen and instead of replacing a set of life-expired
        pedestrian lights two zebra crossings were provided for the same cost or
        less.

        These new traffic lights might sound good for pedestrians and cyclists, but
        I regard them as being not much better than the traditional ones. Zebra
        crossings are the best way to give priority to pedestrians and there should
        be versions of these for cyclists.

        * A 5-year, £1 million per year road safety scheme just finished. I can say
        more about this if anyone is interested.

        Tony Brewer
      • fort-fun@home.com
        ... default red for traffic on the road? The motorist doesn t actually press a drive button. When a vehicle is detected at the lights there is a pause and
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 4, 2001
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In carfree_cities@y..., "Simon Baddeley" <s.j.baddeley@b...>
          wrote:
          > Anyone come across plans for traffic lights designed to stand at
          default red for traffic on the road? The motorist doesn't actually
          press a "drive" button. When a vehicle is detected at the lights there
          is a pause and then the lights turn to green to let them through
          otherwise pedestrians and cycles, on a cycle route crossing at this
          point, can continue through on what will be for them, default green).
          >
          > For local authorities to introduce this - as several plan to do -
          permission has to be obtained for a specific scheme from the
          Department of Transport, Local Government and the Regions. I
          understand why Whitehall want to be in charge of such detail. If the
          pedestrian and cycling population - especially the young - of a local
          authority area get used to default green on traffic lights for them
          and then go somewhere else, there could be problems! This is a change
          that should occur widely - but carefully.
          >
          > Anyone else know about plans for such lights?
          >
          > Simon
          >
          > Simon Baddeley
          > 34 Beaudesert Road
          > Handsworth
          > Birmingham B20 3TG
          > 0121 554 9794
          > 07775 655842

          There is a version of this in my town (Fort Collins, CO). This is
          near a larger (500 pupil) elem school and on the road towards a (1/3)
          high school. On the road there are sensors built-in to the pavement
          for all four directions. When a car comes up to the intersection from
          the main road (if the light is red) then the lights give 2-4 seconds
          then change *for* the direction that one came from. If coming from
          the "non-arterial" if they come up they will wait upto a minute.
          However if it's night, then it is an all-reds intersection...when a
          car comes up to the intersection then it changes for the direction
          you're going. Also during the school transit times, I *!think!* the
          pedestrian timing is push-triggered (like a school crossing
          light)...not time based.

          Andrew Reker
          fort-fun@...
          http://members.home.com/fort-fun/
        • 3L
          ... Would these lights resume to traditional cycles when there are always cars? I guess they would default to green when there is no upcoming car, then when
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 4, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            > These new traffic lights might sound good for pedestrians and
            > cyclists, but
            > I regard them as being not much better than the traditional ones. Zebra
            > crossings are the best way to give priority to pedestrians and
            > there should
            > be versions of these for cyclists.
            Would these lights resume to traditional cycles when there are always cars?
            I guess they would default to green when there is no upcoming car, then when
            there is one it would trigger the normal cycle starting with green for
            pedestrian. This would avoid speeding cars on intersections, since they
            always get a red light unless there is another car right in front.

            Do you mean yellow or white stripes for Zebra crossings? Here in Montreal,
            some of these crossings are really hazardous to use if there is no Stop sign
            or light, and I'm thinking they're there as ornaments only. Even with a
            Stop, sometimes these bastard motorists stop ON the crossing. I'm often
            tempted to kick or drop a stone on the car.

            Louis-Luc
          • Tony Brewer
            ... cars? ... when ... sign ... This webpage shows the various types of pedestrian crossings in the UK: Zebra, Pelican, Puffin, Toucan. (Uses Macromedia Flash.
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 5, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
              > > These new traffic lights might sound good for pedestrians and
              > > cyclists, but
              > > I regard them as being not much better than the traditional ones. Zebra
              > > crossings are the best way to give priority to pedestrians and
              > > there should
              > > be versions of these for cyclists.
              > Would these lights resume to traditional cycles when there are always
              cars?
              > I guess they would default to green when there is no upcoming car, then
              when
              > there is one it would trigger the normal cycle starting with green for
              > pedestrian. This would avoid speeding cars on intersections, since they
              > always get a red light unless there is another car right in front.
              >
              > Do you mean yellow or white stripes for Zebra crossings? Here in Montreal,
              > some of these crossings are really hazardous to use if there is no Stop
              sign
              > or light, and I'm thinking they're there as ornaments only. Even with a
              > Stop, sometimes these bastard motorists stop ON the crossing. I'm often
              > tempted to kick or drop a stone on the car.
              >
              > Louis-Luc

              This webpage shows the various types of pedestrian crossings in the UK:
              Zebra, Pelican, Puffin, Toucan. (Uses Macromedia Flash. Click on arrows at
              bottom right for animation.)
              http://www.bsm.co.uk/tv_site/2a6.html

              Tony B.
            • Roy Preston
              ... Please do, Tony. I am. Roy P
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 5, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                >I can say more about this
                >if anyone is interested.

                Please do, Tony. I am.

                Roy P
              • Tony Brewer
                ... then ... Transport, ... in ... traffic ... This ... the ... but ... should ... say ... I could write a book about SaferCity, but here are a few quick
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 9, 2001
                • 0 Attachment
                  > > Anyone come across plans for traffic lights designed to stand at default
                  > red
                  > > for traffic on the road? The motorist doesn't actually press a "drive"
                  > > button. When a vehicle is detected at the lights there is a pause and
                  then
                  > > the lights turn to green to let them through otherwise pedestrians and
                  > > cycles, on a cycle route crossing at this point, can continue through on
                  > > what will be for them, default green).
                  > >
                  > > For local authorities to introduce this - as several plan to do -
                  > permission
                  > > has to be obtained for a specific scheme from the Department of
                  Transport,
                  > > Local Government and the Regions. I understand why Whitehall want to be
                  in
                  > > charge of such detail. If the pedestrian and cycling population -
                  > especially
                  > > the young - of a local authority area get used to default green on
                  traffic
                  > > lights for them and then go somewhere else, there could be problems!
                  This
                  > is
                  > > a change that should occur widely - but carefully.
                  > >
                  > > Anyone else know about plans for such lights?
                  >
                  > This was considered in Gloucester as part of the SaferCity* project. In
                  the
                  > end, it didn't happen and instead of replacing a set of life-expired
                  > pedestrian lights two zebra crossings were provided for the same cost or
                  > less.
                  >
                  > These new traffic lights might sound good for pedestrians and cyclists,
                  but
                  > I regard them as being not much better than the traditional ones. Zebra
                  > crossings are the best way to give priority to pedestrians and there
                  should
                  > be versions of these for cyclists.
                  >
                  > * A 5-year, £1 million per year road safety scheme just finished. I can
                  say
                  > more about this if anyone is interested.

                  I could write a book about SaferCity, but here are a few quick thoughts:

                  * Gloucester has population just over 100,000
                  * The city won national competition for funding
                  * £1 million a year for 5 years is many times usual road safety budget
                  * Money used for capital schemes only
                  * If road casualties not reduced by 33% money must be re-paid
                  * Target looks likely to be met
                  * Most of money spent on correcting past "cars uber alles" policy
                  * Money targetted on previous accident blackspot areas
                  * Physical traffic-calming main weapon to reduce vehicle speeds
                  * Little innovation shown despite promises
                  * Lots of humps, cushions, junction tables and chicanes
                  * Most major roads not treated and still unsafe for non-motorists
                  * Many quiet accident-free streets have unnecessary humps
                  * Areas with largest car-ownership (newer suburbs) omitted
                  * Far too few rat-run roads closed to through traffic
                  * Some roads have reduced speed limits but not enough
                  * Many parts of city now an obstacle course for cyclists
                  * Lots of new cycle lanes but most too narrow and uncomfortable
                  * Guidelines on cycle provision consistently broken
                  * Views of local cyclists almost always disregarded
                  * Young girl knocked down and killed on 'treated' road = project failed IMO
                  * Problem of how to pay for maintenance after scheme ends
                  * Scheme not part of wider traffic reduction / modal shift strategy

                  Conclusion: it could have been a lot better!

                  Tony B.
                • Louis-Luc
                  ... This proves cycle paths or lanes are not necessarily good for cycling in general. Bicycle lanes must be seen as an alternative for cyclists, so cyclists
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jul 9, 2001
                  • 0 Attachment
                    > * Many parts of city now an obstacle course for cyclists
                    > * Lots of new cycle lanes but most too narrow and uncomfortable

                    This proves cycle paths or lanes are not necessarily good for cycling in
                    general.

                    Bicycle lanes must be seen as an alternative for cyclists, so cyclists can
                    decide to continue to ride in a normal traffic lane without feeling danger.

                    Here in Vaudreuil, they removed the cycle lane on part of the main street
                    (where shops are), and they're building a better one on a parallel quiet
                    street. So 2 things here: they encourage cyclists not to ride main street,
                    and cyclists can comfortably ride a quiet street without a bike path, so the
                    path there is unnecessary. So what Vaudreuil cyclists should do is continue
                    to ride main street, use a normal traffic lane and force motorists to accept
                    cyclists as part of traffic.

                    What I particularily enjoy while cycling is stopping at a crossing, yielding
                    a pedestrian in front of me, while a motorist is second in line up behind
                    me.

                    Louis-Luc

                    Louis-Luc
                  • Eric_Floden@pch.gc.ca
                    Do you mean yellow or white stripes for Zebra crossings? Here in Montreal, some of these crossings are really hazardous to use if there is no Stop sign or
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jul 15, 2001
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Do you mean yellow or white stripes for Zebra crossings? Here in Montreal,
                      some of these crossings are really hazardous to use if there is no Stop
                      sign or light, and I'm thinking they're there as ornaments only. Even with a
                      Stop, sometimes these bastard motorists stop ON the crossing. I'm often
                      tempted to kick or drop a stone on the car.

                      Louis-Luc

                      --------------------------------

                      I'm forever slapping cars with an open palm when they're in my space. It gets
                      their attention and really makes me feel better too...

                      However, a recent discovery for me is the use of a hiking pole/stick. I've
                      started to use one on hilly hikes to try to extend the life of my knees. But I
                      discovered that carrying one while crossing a street makes autos more attentive.
                      I don't know whether they see it as a threat (big stick), or simply an increase
                      to my personal space (holding it in front of me as I cross), but I now make a
                      point of carrying it on all walking trips in town. Bonus: unleashed dogs fear
                      it, too!

                      BTW, it looks like a ski pole, and not like a cane so don't think anone is
                      responding to a perceived mobility impairment on my part.

                      ef
                      Vancouver
                    • Louis-Luc
                      This winter while I was going to cross-country skiing, I was holding my skis and poles 2/3 length in front, 1/3 behind me. This got me a more enjoyable street
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jul 15, 2001
                      • 0 Attachment
                        This winter while I was going to cross-country skiing,
                        I was holding my skis and poles 2/3 length in front,
                        1/3 behind me. This got me a more enjoyable street
                        crossing event, because I felt no threat. Maybe the
                        motorists felt hazardous for him to pass its fragile metal shield in front
                        of the sharp steel tip of my poles.

                        My only concern was to watch carefully not to hurt another pedestrian :-)

                        The moral is: in deep countryside, one needs a pole or a couple of stones
                        to protect ourself against attacks from bears or wolves, and do we need the
                        same tools to protect ourselves from cars in some cities?

                        Louis-Luc

                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Eric_Floden@... [mailto:Eric_Floden@...]
                        > Sent: 15 juillet, 2001 14:53
                        > To: carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [carfree_cities] Traffic Lights (default red for road traffic)
                        >
                        >
                        > Do you mean yellow or white stripes for Zebra crossings? Here in Montreal,
                        > some of these crossings are really hazardous to use if there is no Stop
                        > sign or light, and I'm thinking they're there as ornaments only.
                        > Even with a
                        > Stop, sometimes these bastard motorists stop ON the crossing. I'm often
                        > tempted to kick or drop a stone on the car.
                        >
                        > Louis-Luc
                        >
                        > --------------------------------
                        >
                        > I'm forever slapping cars with an open palm when they're in my
                        > space. It gets
                        > their attention and really makes me feel better too...
                        >
                        > However, a recent discovery for me is the use of a hiking
                        > pole/stick. I've
                        > started to use one on hilly hikes to try to extend the life of my
                        > knees. But I
                        > discovered that carrying one while crossing a street makes autos
                        > more attentive.
                        > I don't know whether they see it as a threat (big stick), or
                        > simply an increase
                        > to my personal space (holding it in front of me as I cross), but
                        > I now make a
                        > point of carrying it on all walking trips in town. Bonus:
                        > unleashed dogs fear
                        > it, too!
                        >
                        > BTW, it looks like a ski pole, and not like a cane so don't think anone is
                        > responding to a perceived mobility impairment on my part.
                        >
                        > ef
                        > Vancouver
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
                        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                        > carfree_cities-unsubscribe@...
                        > Group address: http://www.egroups.com/group/carfree_cities/
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.