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List of carfree areas

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  • J.H. Crawford
    Thanks to everyone who suggested additional carfree places. The in-progress listing is located at: http://www.carfree.com/carfree_places.html Please keep the
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 2, 2001
      Thanks to everyone who suggested additional carfree places.
      The in-progress listing is located at:

      http://www.carfree.com/carfree_places.html

      Please keep the suggestions coming, including any ideas
      for a final home for this page.



      ###

      J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
      postmaster@... Carfree.com
    • Boileau,Pierre [NCR]
      Hello All, Sparks street in downtown Ottawa has been car free for a few decades. Cheers Pierre. ... Please keep the suggestions coming, including any ideas for
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 2, 2001
        Hello All,

        Sparks street in downtown Ottawa has been car free for a few decades.

        Cheers Pierre.

        -----Original Message-----

        Please keep the suggestions coming, including any ideas
        for a final home for this page.





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Lanyon, Ryan
        I noticed Bogota, while not (yet) carfree, was absent from the list.
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 2, 2001
          I noticed Bogota, while not (yet) carfree, was absent from the list.

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: J.H. Crawford [SMTP:postmaster@...]
          > Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 1:20 PM
          > To: carfree_cities@egroups.com
          > Subject: [carfree_cities] List of carfree areas
          >
          >
          > Thanks to everyone who suggested additional carfree places.
          > The in-progress listing is located at:
          >
          > http://www.carfree.com/carfree_places.html
          >
          > Please keep the suggestions coming, including any ideas
          > for a final home for this page.
          >
          >
          >
          > ###
          >
          > J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
          > postmaster@... Carfree.com
          >
          >
          > To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
          > carfree_cities-unsubscribe@...
          > Group address: http://www.egroups.com/group/carfree_cities/
        • Mike Lacey
          Happy New Year (etc.) everyone Just a cautionary note. Assuming that the aim of the carfree movement is to foster development of communities without reliance
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 2, 2001
            Happy New Year (etc.) everyone

            Just a cautionary note. Assuming that the aim of the carfree movement
            is to foster development of communities without reliance on the motor
            car (seem reasonable Joel?), I would suggest that we make an effort
            to identify those cities, districts etc. which hold up well to that
            principal.

            A car free neighborhood is not (in my opinion) a single use
            development that bans cars. Thus I think that a car free shopping
            street in Ottawa or Tokyo, while a good thing, is no more a car free
            neighborhood than a suburban shopping mall or airport, especially if
            these streets rely on nearby parking garages to service them. Zermat
            is primarily a tourist centre where patrons park in the next village
            and get shuttled in. Again a good thing, but is this really
            subverting the dominance of the auto-paradigm?

            Venice on the other hand is a living breathing, fully functioning
            city where car-free living is deeply rooted and fully evolved. I know
            that if I hold up Manhattan as an example I am on shaky ground. But
            in so much as 90% of the population go about their daily lives
            without worrying that they do not own a car, and this in the
            Financial Capital of the World, is this not closer to the car free
            ideal we are working for?

            Mike

            --- In carfree_cities@egroups.com, "J.H. Crawford" <postmaster@c...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Thanks to everyone who suggested additional carfree places.
            > The in-progress listing is located at:
            >
            > http://www.carfree.com/carfree_places.html
            >
            > Please keep the suggestions coming, including any ideas
            > for a final home for this page.
            >
            >
            >
            > ###
            >
            > J.H. Crawford Carfree
            Cities
            > postmaster@c... Carfree.com
          • J.H. Crawford
            ... I agree in principle but think that in practice any area that is highly car-moderated or is, as a matter of policy, headed in that direction is worthy of
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 3, 2001
              Mike Lacey said:

              >Just a cautionary note. Assuming that the aim of the carfree movement
              >is to foster development of communities without reliance on the motor
              >car (seem reasonable Joel?), I would suggest that we make an effort
              >to identify those cities, districts etc. which hold up well to that
              >principal.

              I agree in principle but think that in practice any area that is
              highly car-moderated or is, as a matter of policy, headed in that
              direction is worthy of mention. We should be careful, of course,
              to distinguish between those areas that really are carfree and
              those that are not.

              >A car free neighborhood is not (in my opinion) a single use
              >development that bans cars. Thus I think that a car free shopping
              >street in Ottawa or Tokyo, while a good thing, is no more a car free
              >neighborhood than a suburban shopping mall or airport, especially if
              >these streets rely on nearby parking garages to service them.

              In Europe, there are so many examples of this kind of thing
              that I have dealt with them as a class on the page:

              http://www.carfree.com/carfree_places.html

              In the rest of the world, carfree streets are unusual enough
              that individual cases may be worthy of specific mention.

              >Zermat
              >is primarily a tourist centre where patrons park in the next village
              >and get shuttled in. Again a good thing, but is this really
              >subverting the dominance of the auto-paradigm?

              No, I don't think so in this case. Many people arrive by train
              from the valley floor (and beyond); only residents are allowed
              to drive to Zermatt itself, and they must park their cars in
              what I consider to be a prototype "utility area" at the edge
              of town. It's true that many visitors arrive by car at the
              next village down towards the valley from Zermatt, where they
              change to a train for the final run into Zermatt. I agree that
              it would be better if everyone would take the train to Zermatt,
              but I don't think this is a very realistic expectation. Indeed,
              I don't see the end of car usage (assuming the energy can be
              found to continue their use), and the reference design provides
              for large parking lots in the utility areas on the outskirts
              of town. So I see Zermatt as a prototypical carfree city. It's
              just a lot smaller than the city proposed in the reference design.

              >Venice on the other hand is a living breathing, fully functioning
              >city where car-free living is deeply rooted and fully evolved.

              Absolutely, although it, too, has a large parking facility at the
              edge of the city.

              >I know
              >that if I hold up Manhattan as an example I am on shaky ground. But
              >in so much as 90% of the population go about their daily lives
              >without worrying that they do not own a car, and this in the
              >Financial Capital of the World, is this not closer to the car free
              >ideal we are working for?

              Well, in a sense yes and in another sense no. Cars truly dominate
              the streets of Manhattan, despite their use to provide a relatively
              small proportion of mobility on the island. So Manhattan is in no
              way carfree, by my lights. At the same time, it would be easy to
              convert it to the carfree model, because it has such excellent
              transport systems in place. A carfree Manhattan would be a truly
              wonderful place, and the scale is, of course, large.

              Further discussion on this?


              ###

              J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
              postmaster@... Carfree.com
            • Boileau,Pierre [NCR]
              Mike, I am in agreement and would put Paris forward as another model of a city where car-free living is a reality (having lived there for 2 years car-free).
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 5, 2001
                Mike,

                I am in agreement and would put Paris forward as another model of a city
                where car-free living is a reality (having lived there for 2 years
                car-free). However, there are still hours of traffic jams in Paris and
                proposals to make areas of Paris car-free have been rejected up to now.
                Finally, there is no way that the public transit system in Paris could
                handle the flow of people if the city were car-free. This was highlighted
                by the two most recent 'journée sans voitures' in Paris.

                I'm not sure how best to handle those issues, since it appears that
                multi-modal cities are currently the best solutions.

                Cheers

                Pierre.

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Mike Lacey [mailto:firefly956@...]
                Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 4:17 PM
                To: carfree_cities@egroups.com
                Subject: [carfree_cities] Re: List of carfree areas - a caveat


                Happy New Year (etc.) everyone

                Just a cautionary note. Assuming that the aim of the carfree movement
                is to foster development of communities without reliance on the motor
                car (seem reasonable Joel?), I would suggest that we make an effort
                to identify those cities, districts etc. which hold up well to that
                principal.

                A car free neighborhood is not (in my opinion) a single use
                development that bans cars. Thus I think that a car free shopping
                street in Ottawa or Tokyo, while a good thing, is no more a car free
                neighborhood than a suburban shopping mall or airport, especially if
                these streets rely on nearby parking garages to service them. Zermat
                is primarily a tourist centre where patrons park in the next village
                and get shuttled in. Again a good thing, but is this really
                subverting the dominance of the auto-paradigm?

                Venice on the other hand is a living breathing, fully functioning
                city where car-free living is deeply rooted and fully evolved. I know
                that if I hold up Manhattan as an example I am on shaky ground. But
                in so much as 90% of the population go about their daily lives
                without worrying that they do not own a car, and this in the
                Financial Capital of the World, is this not closer to the car free
                ideal we are working for?

                Mike

                --- In carfree_cities@egroups.com, "J.H. Crawford" <postmaster@c...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Thanks to everyone who suggested additional carfree places.
                > The in-progress listing is located at:
                >
                > http://www.carfree.com/carfree_places.html
                >
                > Please keep the suggestions coming, including any ideas
                > for a final home for this page.
                >
                >
                >
                > ###
                >
                > J.H. Crawford Carfree
                Cities
                > postmaster@c... Carfree.com


                To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
                To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                carfree_cities-unsubscribe@...
                Group address: http://www.egroups.com/group/carfree_cities/


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Mike Lacey
                Pierre You hit the nail squarely on the head. Paris, New York or San Francisco are not car free, but it is much easier to live car free in these cities than it
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 5, 2001
                  Pierre

                  You hit the nail squarely on the head. Paris, New York or San
                  Francisco are not car free, but it is much easier to live car free in
                  these cities than it is on a nominally carfree street in an otherwise
                  car oriented city

                  Mike

                  --- In carfree_cities@egroups.com, "Boileau,Pierre [NCR]"
                  <Pierre.Boileau@E...> wrote:
                  > Mike,
                  >
                  > I am in agreement and would put Paris forward as another model of a
                  city
                  > where car-free living is a reality (having lived there for 2 years
                  > car-free). However, there are still hours of traffic jams in Paris
                  and
                  > proposals to make areas of Paris car-free have been rejected up to
                  now.
                  > Finally, there is no way that the public transit system in Paris
                  could
                  > handle the flow of people if the city were car-free. This was
                  highlighted
                  > by the two most recent 'journée sans voitures' in Paris.
                  >
                  > I'm not sure how best to handle those issues, since it appears that
                  > multi-modal cities are currently the best solutions.
                  >
                  > Cheers
                  >
                  > Pierre.
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Mike Lacey [mailto:firefly956@h...]
                  > Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 4:17 PM
                  > To: carfree_cities@egroups.com
                  > Subject: [carfree_cities] Re: List of carfree areas - a caveat
                  >
                  >
                  > Happy New Year (etc.) everyone
                  >
                  > Just a cautionary note. Assuming that the aim of the carfree
                  movement
                  > is to foster development of communities without reliance on the
                  motor
                  > car (seem reasonable Joel?), I would suggest that we make an effort
                  > to identify those cities, districts etc. which hold up well to that
                  > principal.
                  >
                  > A car free neighborhood is not (in my opinion) a single use
                  > development that bans cars. Thus I think that a car free shopping
                  > street in Ottawa or Tokyo, while a good thing, is no more a car
                  free
                  > neighborhood than a suburban shopping mall or airport, especially
                  if
                  > these streets rely on nearby parking garages to service them.
                  Zermat
                  > is primarily a tourist centre where patrons park in the next
                  village
                  > and get shuttled in. Again a good thing, but is this really
                  > subverting the dominance of the auto-paradigm?
                  >
                  > Venice on the other hand is a living breathing, fully functioning
                  > city where car-free living is deeply rooted and fully evolved. I
                  know
                  > that if I hold up Manhattan as an example I am on shaky ground. But
                  > in so much as 90% of the population go about their daily lives
                  > without worrying that they do not own a car, and this in the
                  > Financial Capital of the World, is this not closer to the car free
                  > ideal we are working for?
                  >
                  > Mike
                  >
                  > --- In carfree_cities@egroups.com, "J.H. Crawford"
                  <postmaster@c...>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Thanks to everyone who suggested additional carfree places.
                  > > The in-progress listing is located at:
                  > >
                  > > http://www.carfree.com/carfree_places.html
                  > >
                  > > Please keep the suggestions coming, including any ideas
                  > > for a final home for this page.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ###
                  > >
                  > > J.H. Crawford Carfree
                  > Cities
                  > > postmaster@c... Carfree.com
                  >
                  >
                  > To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@e...
                  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                  > carfree_cities-unsubscribe@e...
                  > Group address: http://www.egroups.com/group/carfree_cities/
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • J.H. Crawford
                  I think we need to focus on carfree cities in the listing we re making, not on cities where it s easy/possible to live without a car. There are, after all,
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 5, 2001
                    I think we need to focus on carfree cities in the
                    listing we're making, not on cities where it's
                    easy/possible to live without a car. There are,
                    after all, plenty of cities, even in the USA,
                    where you can live without a car. What's rare and
                    important is cities where you can live without
                    your car, or anybody else's.

                    The point that Randall Hunt made about the one
                    small area in Venice being an unpleasant place
                    should serve as a reminder to us: it's all the
                    trouble that cars bring in their wake that we're
                    trying to eliminate. That means, of course, keeping
                    the cars out of urban areas.


                    ###

                    J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
                    postmaster@... Carfree.com
                  • J.H. Crawford
                    ... I really don t think we should include an area unless it substantially passes the test of being able to walk down the middle of the street without worrying
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 5, 2001
                      Pierre said:

                      >I am in agreement and would put Paris forward as another model of a city
                      >where car-free living is a reality (having lived there for 2 years
                      >car-free). However, there are still hours of traffic jams in Paris and
                      >proposals to make areas of Paris car-free have been rejected up to now.
                      >Finally, there is no way that the public transit system in Paris could
                      >handle the flow of people if the city were car-free. This was highlighted
                      >by the two most recent 'journée sans voitures' in Paris.

                      I really don't think we should include an area unless it substantially
                      passes the test of being able to walk down the middle of the street
                      without worrying about cars bearing down on you. New York, London,
                      and Paris emphatically do not meet this test.

                      It's not the ability to LIVE carfree that we are trying to document
                      here, IMHO. It's the possibility to experience street life without cars.

                      ###

                      J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
                      postmaster@... Carfree.com
                    • 3L
                      ... Making a city carfree implies of course increasing the frequency of transit until it can handle the whole flow of people. If on a Journée sans voiture
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jan 5, 2001
                        > Mike,
                        >
                        > I am in agreement and would put Paris forward as another model of a city
                        > where car-free living is a reality (having lived there for 2 years
                        > car-free). However, there are still hours of traffic jams in Paris and
                        > proposals to make areas of Paris car-free have been rejected up to now.
                        > Finally, there is no way that the public transit system in Paris could
                        > handle the flow of people if the city were car-free. This was highlighted
                        > by the two most recent 'journée sans voitures' in Paris.
                        >
                        Making a city carfree implies of course increasing the frequency of transit
                        until it can handle the whole flow of people. If on a "Journée sans voiture"
                        they didn't increase (enough) the frequency of transit, then it's certain
                        that it couldn't handle the flow of people.

                        > Pierre.
                        >
                        Louis-Luc
                      • Boileau,Pierre [NCR]
                        Hi All, I would suggest however that there are many smaller areas within Paris which are car-free (le Marais, walking malls off St. Germain, etc.) and that
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jan 7, 2001
                          Hi All,

                          I would suggest however that there are many smaller areas within Paris which
                          are car-free (le Marais, walking malls off St. Germain, etc.) and that
                          car-free living is a reality in these cities. There are fairly large and
                          growing communities of car-less people in these urban centres and the
                          movement to make more areas car-free starts with those folks.

                          If a major part of a politicians constituency is car-less, and happy about,
                          it makes the political process move towards creating more car-free spaces.
                          Clearly, there are many reasons to make more areas of these historically
                          important cities car-free, not the least of which is the damage that air
                          pollution can have on these historically significant sights. Politicians
                          will move towards this goal if their constituents point the way, IMHO.

                          Cheers

                          Pierre.

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: J.H. Crawford [mailto:postmaster@...]

                          It's not the ability to LIVE carfree that we are trying to document
                          here, IMHO. It's the possibility to experience street life without cars.



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • J.H. Crawford
                          ... I d really like to have relatively detailed info about each of these areas, so that it can be included in carfree_places.html. ... IMHO, it s not so much
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jan 8, 2001
                            Pierre said:

                            >I would suggest however that there are many smaller areas within Paris which
                            >are car-free (le Marais, walking malls off St. Germain, etc.)

                            I'd really like to have relatively detailed info about each of
                            these areas, so that it can be included in carfree_places.html.

                            >.....and that
                            >car-free living is a reality in these cities. There are fairly large and
                            >growing communities of car-less people in these urban centres and the
                            >movement to make more areas car-free starts with those folks.

                            IMHO, it's not so much carfree life as carfree places that is of
                            interest. Everywhere in the world (even LA!) there are many
                            people living without a car, so that's old news. (What may be
                            new news is just how many of these people there are!)

                            I'd like, in the page we are developing, to concentrate on places
                            that are carfree, not on places where it's easy to live without
                            a car (not that this isn't interesting data in itself; it's just
                            not so relevant to what we're doing, I think).

                            >If a major part of a politicians constituency is car-less, and happy about,
                            >it makes the political process move towards creating more car-free spaces.

                            Unfortunately, not always. New York City has huge numbers of families
                            living without cars, probably even a majority. Mayor Giuliani nevertheless
                            puts the interests of drivers ahead of pedestrians. Don't know how he
                            gets away with it.

                            >Clearly, there are many reasons to make more areas of these historically
                            >important cities car-free, not the least of which is the damage that air
                            >pollution can have on these historically significant sights. Politicians
                            >will move towards this goal if their constituents point the way, IMHO.

                            I do thiink that this is a grassroots issue and that not that much will
                            happen until people start to demand it.



                            ###

                            J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
                            postmaster@... Carfree.com
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