Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

RE: [carfree_cities] Another death

Expand Messages
  • Louis-Luc Le Guerrier
    ... No. If we have to ban something, then we have to ban the thing that kills the people: the cars. It s totally unacceptable to restrict the access to
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 3, 2000
      > What do members think of the following:
      >
      > There have been several deaths of cyclists using a
      > dual-carriageway which
      > bisects my neighbouring town centre, so a debate ensued with talk of
      > banning cyclists -- for their own safety. But, instead, the
      > speed limit has
      > been reduced to 50 mph.
      >
      > Tonight, I read that, because of another cyclist being killed
      > last week,
      > the proposal has once again been put forward to ban cyclists.
      >
      > Is this the way forward?
      >
      No.

      If we have to ban something, then we have to ban the thing that kills the
      people: the cars. It's totally unacceptable to restrict the access to
      inoffensive bicyclists (or pedestrians) to a road. We are humans, and our
      basic need is to walk anywhere we like, or cycle. The bicycle is a vehicle
      that deserves the same right as a car, so the full access to the road.

      I suggest to lower the speed limit of cars again, maybe to 40mph, or 30mph?

      Louis-Luc

      > Roy P(hilosophical debate)
      >
    • Henning Mortensen
      Gather as many cyclists as you can and demand that they ban cars since they are the ones that cause the death. Take this opportunity to claim the rights of
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 3, 2000
        Gather as many cyclists as you can and demand that they ban cars since they
        are the ones that cause the death.

        Take this opportunity to claim the rights of cyclists, pedestrians, dogs,
        cats and children.


        >From: Roy Preston <preston@...>
        >Reply-To: carfree_cities@egroups.com
        >To: carfree_cities@egroups.com
        >Subject: [carfree_cities] Another death
        >Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:55:49 +0100
        >
        >What do members think of the following:
        >
        >There have been several deaths of cyclists using a dual-carriageway which
        >bisects my neighbouring town centre, so a debate ensued with talk of
        >banning cyclists -- for their own safety. But, instead, the speed limit has
        >been reduced to 50 mph.
        >
        >Tonight, I read that, because of another cyclist being killed last week,
        >the proposal has once again been put forward to ban cyclists.
        >
        >Is this the way forward?
        >
        >Roy P(hilosophical debate)
        >
        >
        >
        >To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
        >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        >carfree_cities-unsubscribe@...
        >

        _________________________________________________________________________
        Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

        Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
        http://profiles.msn.com
      • Louis-Luc Le Guerrier
        ... Should have said to lower the speed until there is no more cyclist or pedestrian death. If it reaches 0, then ban cars. In the worst case, 5 more cyclists
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 3, 2000
          > > What do members think of the following:
          > >
          > > There have been several deaths of cyclists using a
          > > dual-carriageway which
          > > bisects my neighbouring town centre, so a debate ensued with talk of
          > > banning cyclists -- for their own safety. But, instead, the
          > > speed limit has
          > > been reduced to 50 mph.
          > >
          > > Tonight, I read that, because of another cyclist being killed
          > > last week,
          > > the proposal has once again been put forward to ban cyclists.
          > >
          > > Is this the way forward?
          > >
          > No.
          >
          > If we have to ban something, then we have to ban the thing
          > that kills the
          > people: the cars. It's totally unacceptable to restrict the access to
          > inoffensive bicyclists (or pedestrians) to a road. We are
          > humans, and our
          > basic need is to walk anywhere we like, or cycle. The bicycle
          > is a vehicle
          > that deserves the same right as a car, so the full access to the road.
          >
          > I suggest to lower the speed limit of cars again, maybe to
          > 40mph, or 30mph?
          >
          Should have said to lower the speed until there is no more cyclist or
          pedestrian death. If it reaches 0, then ban cars. In the worst case, 5 more
          cyclists will sacrifice their life for that community, assuming 10mph
          decrements.

          Ideally, this practice will be done on all roads. If drivers are careful
          enough, then they can continue to access the roads without threat to other
          road users, so drivers have the choice in their hands.

          Louis-Luc
          P.S. Sorry for that self-reply.
          > Louis-Luc
          >
          > > Roy P(hilosophical debate)
          > >
          >
          >
          > To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
          > carfree_cities-unsubscribe@...
          >
        • Sam Christy
          In terms of gathering cyclist to protest the lack of adequate access for bicycles I can point people to Critical Mass at http://www.criticalmasshub.com/ These
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 3, 2000
            In terms of gathering cyclist to protest the lack of adequate access for
            bicycles I can point people to Critical Mass at
            http://www.criticalmasshub.com/ These are bike rides that happen every
            month all over the world - in England http://www.critmass.org.uk/ London and
            http://www.gn.apc.org/cycling/index.html Bristol. I recently participated
            in a car-free day bike ride where over 200 (don't quote me on the number)
            bicyclist traveled through Boston on city streets and met at an intersection
            that is particularly dangerous and difficult for cyclist. It was my first
            such ride and I plan to do many more. I brought my daughter along and she
            had a great time. She is looking forward to our next "bike parade."

            Sam

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Henning Mortensen [mailto:henning_work@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 12:19 PM
            To: carfree_cities@egroups.com
            Subject: Re: [carfree_cities] Another death


            Gather as many cyclists as you can and demand that they ban cars since they
            are the ones that cause the death.

            Take this opportunity to claim the rights of cyclists, pedestrians, dogs,
            cats and children.


            >From: Roy Preston <preston@...>
            >Reply-To: carfree_cities@egroups.com
            >To: carfree_cities@egroups.com
            >Subject: [carfree_cities] Another death
            >Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:55:49 +0100
            >
            >What do members think of the following:
            >
            >There have been several deaths of cyclists using a dual-carriageway which
            >bisects my neighbouring town centre, so a debate ensued with talk of
            >banning cyclists -- for their own safety. But, instead, the speed limit has
            >been reduced to 50 mph.
            >
            >Tonight, I read that, because of another cyclist being killed last week,
            >the proposal has once again been put forward to ban cyclists.
            >
            >Is this the way forward?
            >
            >Roy P(hilosophical debate)
            >
            >
            >
            >To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
            >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
            >carfree_cities-unsubscribe@...
            >

            _________________________________________________________________________
            Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

            Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
            http://profiles.msn.com


            To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
            To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
            carfree_cities-unsubscribe@...
          • Sam Christy
            My wife and I both visited Christiania by coincidence before we met. We also found our ideal bike there by coincidence. It is a very interesting place and by
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 3, 2000
              My wife and I both visited Christiania by coincidence before we met. We
              also found our ideal bike there by coincidence. It is a very interesting
              place and by no means perfect but it is car-free. I encourage others to
              visit.

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Henning Mortensen [mailto:henning_work@...]
              Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 10:40 AM
              To: carfree_cities@egroups.com
              Subject: Re: [carfree_cities] Getting kids to school w/o a car


              >In addition, there is a company Copenhagen in called
              >http://www.christianiabikes.com/ We modeled our bike on their design
              >with some modifications. We have also looked into ordering one of
              >their bikes from England. I will give people more information if
              >they
              >are interested.


              Wow Chistiania Bikes!!!!!

              For those of you who do not know the history of these bicycles I thought I
              should post this. These are very special bikes!!!

              It all starts with a disused military barracks in the heart of Copenhagen.
              In the early seventies, a group of squatters moved into the buildings and
              declared the area, Christiania, an independent state. Of course this act of
              treason, led to huge debates in the local parliament, but lo and behold
              nothing was ever done about it. People eventually set up homes in the area,
              which although lacking in power, had a small idealistic community. A lack of
              laws in the new-found state, resulted in it becoming the hub for narcotics,
              and from what I here, the police refused to enter the city after dark.
              Although much debate over the years has centered on what to do with
              Christiania, I am happy to say that Christiania still sits in the heart of
              Copenhagen. I visited about five years ago, there are still a few idealists
              living there selling baking and assorted trinkets, and of course there is
              the house of the fellow that recognized that you needed bikes to get around
              in Christiania. Needing a special bike for a special place he invented and
              built the famous "Christiania Bike", which looks nothing like any other bike
              around.

              Amazing that they now have a web site too!


              Wow, thanks for bringing that up.

              Henning

              ps. Any errors or omissions?
              _________________________________________________________________________
              Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

              Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
              http://profiles.msn.com


              To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
              To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              carfree_cities-unsubscribe@...
            • Roy Preston
              Sam asked, what is a dual-carriageway, and how were the cyclists killed. A dual-carriageway is a road with two lanes in either direction. And they were killed
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 3, 2000
                Sam asked, what is a dual-carriageway, and how were the cyclists killed. A
                dual-carriageway is a road with two lanes in either direction. And they
                were killed predominantly by cars entering the dual-carriageway from a
                slip-road.

                Answering Ryan's questions: The speed limit has been reduced to 50 from 70
                mph. and the road is urban 19th century.

                Louis-Luc and Henning share my sentiments. I'm preparing a letter which, I
                hope, will provide a reasonable argument against banning cyclists. Thanks
                for the comments, gang.

                Roy P(icking out the best bits)
              • Frank Sierowski
                ... A dual-carriageway is a road where the traffic in the two directions are physically separated by some sort of barrier. Other people might call them
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 5, 2000
                  > What exactly is a dual-carriageway ... ?

                  A dual-carriageway is a road where the traffic in the two directions are
                  physically separated by some sort of barrier. Other people might call them
                  "divided highways". There will be 2 or more lanes in each direction.

                  ------------------------------------------------
                  from: Frank Sierowski

                  <fsier@...>

                  The following is a request to anyone planning to send out an email to a list
                  of addresses:

                  - please do not put my email address in TO or CC with other addresses, (as
                  this will send my address to all the other people in the list) unless I
                  already know the other people in the list.

                  To send to a list of addresses without sending the list itself, use BCC.
                  ------------------------------------------------
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.