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Getting kids to school w/o a car

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  • Sam K
    First, I have to confess that we do own a car BUT we don t drive it very much. I know, this is like saying I only watch PBS and the news on TV. Enough
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 2, 2000
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      First, I have to confess that we do own a car BUT we don't drive it
      very much. I know, this is like saying I only watch PBS and the news
      on TV. Enough confessions.

      My wife and I have two children who go to different schools.
      Fortunately, we live in a fairly urban community so the distances are
      not that great to either school. We both own bikes with bike seats so
      we are able to take them each to school on bikes. We do have a
      problem when one of us needs to take them both to school. We have
      tried bike trailers (such as the Burley) which can hold two kids but
      they do not feel that safe to us in city traffic.

      A few months ago we approached a bike builder about building us a
      bike
      that can be ridden by one person and can hold two/three kids. The
      bike should be ready by the end of October. It looks like a normal
      bike in the back with one wheel. It has two wheels in the
      front and between the two front wheels are two seats for children.
      It
      will also have a mount for holding baby seat - as a third child's
      seat. In addition, there is room for carrying groceries and bags.
      When we start riding the bike/trike I will let people know how it
      works out.

      In addition, there is a company Copenhagen in called
      http://www.christianiabikes.com/ We modeled our bike on their design
      with some modifications. We have also looked into ordering one of
      their bikes from England. I will give people more information if
      they
      are interested.

      Sam
    • Lanyon, Ryan
      Not sure how old your children are, but did you consider attaching a tag-a-long or two to the bike to let them ride behind? It works like a tandem bike, but
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 2, 2000
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        Not sure how old your children are, but did you consider attaching a
        tag-a-long or two to the bike to let them ride behind? It works like a
        tandem bike, but is detachable and custom-sized for children too small to
        ride on their own.

        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Sam K [SMTP:schristy@...]
        > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 2:12 PM
        > To: carfree_cities@egroups.com
        > Subject: [carfree_cities] Getting kids to school w/o a car
        >
        > First, I have to confess that we do own a car BUT we don't drive it
        > very much. I know, this is like saying I only watch PBS and the news
        > on TV. Enough confessions.
        >
        > My wife and I have two children who go to different schools.
        > Fortunately, we live in a fairly urban community so the distances are
        > not that great to either school. We both own bikes with bike seats so
        > we are able to take them each to school on bikes. We do have a
        > problem when one of us needs to take them both to school. We have
        > tried bike trailers (such as the Burley) which can hold two kids but
        > they do not feel that safe to us in city traffic.
        >
        > A few months ago we approached a bike builder about building us a
        > bike
        > that can be ridden by one person and can hold two/three kids. The
        > bike should be ready by the end of October. It looks like a normal
        > bike in the back with one wheel. It has two wheels in the
        > front and between the two front wheels are two seats for children.
        > It
        > will also have a mount for holding baby seat - as a third child's
        > seat. In addition, there is room for carrying groceries and bags.
        > When we start riding the bike/trike I will let people know how it
        > works out.
        >
        > In addition, there is a company Copenhagen in called
        > http://www.christianiabikes.com/ We modeled our bike on their design
        > with some modifications. We have also looked into ordering one of
        > their bikes from England. I will give people more information if
        > they
        > are interested.
        >
        > Sam
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        > carfree_cities-unsubscribe@...
      • Henning Mortensen
        ... Wow Chistiania Bikes!!!!! For those of you who do not know the history of these bicycles I thought I should post this. These are very special bikes!!! It
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 3, 2000
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          >In addition, there is a company Copenhagen in called
          >http://www.christianiabikes.com/ We modeled our bike on their design
          >with some modifications. We have also looked into ordering one of
          >their bikes from England. I will give people more information if
          >they
          >are interested.


          Wow Chistiania Bikes!!!!!

          For those of you who do not know the history of these bicycles I thought I
          should post this. These are very special bikes!!!

          It all starts with a disused military barracks in the heart of Copenhagen.
          In the early seventies, a group of squatters moved into the buildings and
          declared the area, Christiania, an independent state. Of course this act of
          treason, led to huge debates in the local parliament, but lo and behold
          nothing was ever done about it. People eventually set up homes in the area,
          which although lacking in power, had a small idealistic community. A lack of
          laws in the new-found state, resulted in it becoming the hub for narcotics,
          and from what I here, the police refused to enter the city after dark.
          Although much debate over the years has centered on what to do with
          Christiania, I am happy to say that Christiania still sits in the heart of
          Copenhagen. I visited about five years ago, there are still a few idealists
          living there selling baking and assorted trinkets, and of course there is
          the house of the fellow that recognized that you needed bikes to get around
          in Christiania. Needing a special bike for a special place he invented and
          built the famous "Christiania Bike", which looks nothing like any other bike
          around.

          Amazing that they now have a web site too!


          Wow, thanks for bringing that up.

          Henning

          ps. Any errors or omissions?
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        • Roy Preston
          What do members think of the following: There have been several deaths of cyclists using a dual-carriageway which bisects my neighbouring town centre, so a
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 3, 2000
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            What do members think of the following:

            There have been several deaths of cyclists using a dual-carriageway which
            bisects my neighbouring town centre, so a debate ensued with talk of
            banning cyclists -- for their own safety. But, instead, the speed limit has
            been reduced to 50 mph.

            Tonight, I read that, because of another cyclist being killed last week,
            the proposal has once again been put forward to ban cyclists.

            Is this the way forward?

            Roy P(hilosophical debate)
          • Sam Christy
            What exactly is a dual-carriageway and how have these people been killed? A question to ask is how many people are killed in car only accidents. ... From: Roy
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 3, 2000
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              What exactly is a dual-carriageway and how have these people been killed?

              A question to ask is how many people are killed in car only accidents.

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Roy Preston [mailto:preston@...]
              Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 11:56 AM
              To: carfree_cities@egroups.com
              Subject: [carfree_cities] Another death


              What do members think of the following:

              There have been several deaths of cyclists using a dual-carriageway which
              bisects my neighbouring town centre, so a debate ensued with talk of
              banning cyclists -- for their own safety. But, instead, the speed limit has
              been reduced to 50 mph.

              Tonight, I read that, because of another cyclist being killed last week,
              the proposal has once again been put forward to ban cyclists.

              Is this the way forward?

              Roy P(hilosophical debate)



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            • Lanyon, Ryan
              The speed limit has been reduced to 50 mph? What was it before? What type of urban design is this (suburban? 19th century?) Who is at fault for these
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 3, 2000
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                The speed limit has been reduced to 50 mph? What was it before? What type
                of urban design is this (suburban? 19th century?)

                Who is at fault for these collisions? If motorists are, it may be an
                enforcement/education issue. If cyclists, it may be a skills/education
                issue. My bet is that banning cyclists will do nothing to address the real
                problem.

                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Roy Preston [SMTP:preston@...]
                > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 11:56 AM
                > To: carfree_cities@egroups.com
                > Subject: [carfree_cities] Another death
                >
                > What do members think of the following:
                >
                > There have been several deaths of cyclists using a dual-carriageway which
                > bisects my neighbouring town centre, so a debate ensued with talk of
                > banning cyclists -- for their own safety. But, instead, the speed limit
                > has
                > been reduced to 50 mph.
                >
                > Tonight, I read that, because of another cyclist being killed last week,
                > the proposal has once again been put forward to ban cyclists.
                >
                > Is this the way forward?
                >
                > Roy P(hilosophical debate)
                >
                >
                >
                > To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
                > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                > carfree_cities-unsubscribe@...
              • Louis-Luc Le Guerrier
                ... No. If we have to ban something, then we have to ban the thing that kills the people: the cars. It s totally unacceptable to restrict the access to
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 3, 2000
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                  > What do members think of the following:
                  >
                  > There have been several deaths of cyclists using a
                  > dual-carriageway which
                  > bisects my neighbouring town centre, so a debate ensued with talk of
                  > banning cyclists -- for their own safety. But, instead, the
                  > speed limit has
                  > been reduced to 50 mph.
                  >
                  > Tonight, I read that, because of another cyclist being killed
                  > last week,
                  > the proposal has once again been put forward to ban cyclists.
                  >
                  > Is this the way forward?
                  >
                  No.

                  If we have to ban something, then we have to ban the thing that kills the
                  people: the cars. It's totally unacceptable to restrict the access to
                  inoffensive bicyclists (or pedestrians) to a road. We are humans, and our
                  basic need is to walk anywhere we like, or cycle. The bicycle is a vehicle
                  that deserves the same right as a car, so the full access to the road.

                  I suggest to lower the speed limit of cars again, maybe to 40mph, or 30mph?

                  Louis-Luc

                  > Roy P(hilosophical debate)
                  >
                • Henning Mortensen
                  Gather as many cyclists as you can and demand that they ban cars since they are the ones that cause the death. Take this opportunity to claim the rights of
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 3, 2000
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                    Gather as many cyclists as you can and demand that they ban cars since they
                    are the ones that cause the death.

                    Take this opportunity to claim the rights of cyclists, pedestrians, dogs,
                    cats and children.


                    >From: Roy Preston <preston@...>
                    >Reply-To: carfree_cities@egroups.com
                    >To: carfree_cities@egroups.com
                    >Subject: [carfree_cities] Another death
                    >Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:55:49 +0100
                    >
                    >What do members think of the following:
                    >
                    >There have been several deaths of cyclists using a dual-carriageway which
                    >bisects my neighbouring town centre, so a debate ensued with talk of
                    >banning cyclists -- for their own safety. But, instead, the speed limit has
                    >been reduced to 50 mph.
                    >
                    >Tonight, I read that, because of another cyclist being killed last week,
                    >the proposal has once again been put forward to ban cyclists.
                    >
                    >Is this the way forward?
                    >
                    >Roy P(hilosophical debate)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
                    >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                    >carfree_cities-unsubscribe@...
                    >

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                  • Louis-Luc Le Guerrier
                    ... Should have said to lower the speed until there is no more cyclist or pedestrian death. If it reaches 0, then ban cars. In the worst case, 5 more cyclists
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 3, 2000
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                      > > What do members think of the following:
                      > >
                      > > There have been several deaths of cyclists using a
                      > > dual-carriageway which
                      > > bisects my neighbouring town centre, so a debate ensued with talk of
                      > > banning cyclists -- for their own safety. But, instead, the
                      > > speed limit has
                      > > been reduced to 50 mph.
                      > >
                      > > Tonight, I read that, because of another cyclist being killed
                      > > last week,
                      > > the proposal has once again been put forward to ban cyclists.
                      > >
                      > > Is this the way forward?
                      > >
                      > No.
                      >
                      > If we have to ban something, then we have to ban the thing
                      > that kills the
                      > people: the cars. It's totally unacceptable to restrict the access to
                      > inoffensive bicyclists (or pedestrians) to a road. We are
                      > humans, and our
                      > basic need is to walk anywhere we like, or cycle. The bicycle
                      > is a vehicle
                      > that deserves the same right as a car, so the full access to the road.
                      >
                      > I suggest to lower the speed limit of cars again, maybe to
                      > 40mph, or 30mph?
                      >
                      Should have said to lower the speed until there is no more cyclist or
                      pedestrian death. If it reaches 0, then ban cars. In the worst case, 5 more
                      cyclists will sacrifice their life for that community, assuming 10mph
                      decrements.

                      Ideally, this practice will be done on all roads. If drivers are careful
                      enough, then they can continue to access the roads without threat to other
                      road users, so drivers have the choice in their hands.

                      Louis-Luc
                      P.S. Sorry for that self-reply.
                      > Louis-Luc
                      >
                      > > Roy P(hilosophical debate)
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
                      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                      > carfree_cities-unsubscribe@...
                      >
                    • Sam Christy
                      In terms of gathering cyclist to protest the lack of adequate access for bicycles I can point people to Critical Mass at http://www.criticalmasshub.com/ These
                      Message 10 of 13 , Oct 3, 2000
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                        In terms of gathering cyclist to protest the lack of adequate access for
                        bicycles I can point people to Critical Mass at
                        http://www.criticalmasshub.com/ These are bike rides that happen every
                        month all over the world - in England http://www.critmass.org.uk/ London and
                        http://www.gn.apc.org/cycling/index.html Bristol. I recently participated
                        in a car-free day bike ride where over 200 (don't quote me on the number)
                        bicyclist traveled through Boston on city streets and met at an intersection
                        that is particularly dangerous and difficult for cyclist. It was my first
                        such ride and I plan to do many more. I brought my daughter along and she
                        had a great time. She is looking forward to our next "bike parade."

                        Sam

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Henning Mortensen [mailto:henning_work@...]
                        Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 12:19 PM
                        To: carfree_cities@egroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [carfree_cities] Another death


                        Gather as many cyclists as you can and demand that they ban cars since they
                        are the ones that cause the death.

                        Take this opportunity to claim the rights of cyclists, pedestrians, dogs,
                        cats and children.


                        >From: Roy Preston <preston@...>
                        >Reply-To: carfree_cities@egroups.com
                        >To: carfree_cities@egroups.com
                        >Subject: [carfree_cities] Another death
                        >Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:55:49 +0100
                        >
                        >What do members think of the following:
                        >
                        >There have been several deaths of cyclists using a dual-carriageway which
                        >bisects my neighbouring town centre, so a debate ensued with talk of
                        >banning cyclists -- for their own safety. But, instead, the speed limit has
                        >been reduced to 50 mph.
                        >
                        >Tonight, I read that, because of another cyclist being killed last week,
                        >the proposal has once again been put forward to ban cyclists.
                        >
                        >Is this the way forward?
                        >
                        >Roy P(hilosophical debate)
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >To Post a message, send it to: carfree_cities@...
                        >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                        >carfree_cities-unsubscribe@...
                        >

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                      • Sam Christy
                        My wife and I both visited Christiania by coincidence before we met. We also found our ideal bike there by coincidence. It is a very interesting place and by
                        Message 11 of 13 , Oct 3, 2000
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                          My wife and I both visited Christiania by coincidence before we met. We
                          also found our ideal bike there by coincidence. It is a very interesting
                          place and by no means perfect but it is car-free. I encourage others to
                          visit.

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Henning Mortensen [mailto:henning_work@...]
                          Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 10:40 AM
                          To: carfree_cities@egroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [carfree_cities] Getting kids to school w/o a car


                          >In addition, there is a company Copenhagen in called
                          >http://www.christianiabikes.com/ We modeled our bike on their design
                          >with some modifications. We have also looked into ordering one of
                          >their bikes from England. I will give people more information if
                          >they
                          >are interested.


                          Wow Chistiania Bikes!!!!!

                          For those of you who do not know the history of these bicycles I thought I
                          should post this. These are very special bikes!!!

                          It all starts with a disused military barracks in the heart of Copenhagen.
                          In the early seventies, a group of squatters moved into the buildings and
                          declared the area, Christiania, an independent state. Of course this act of
                          treason, led to huge debates in the local parliament, but lo and behold
                          nothing was ever done about it. People eventually set up homes in the area,
                          which although lacking in power, had a small idealistic community. A lack of
                          laws in the new-found state, resulted in it becoming the hub for narcotics,
                          and from what I here, the police refused to enter the city after dark.
                          Although much debate over the years has centered on what to do with
                          Christiania, I am happy to say that Christiania still sits in the heart of
                          Copenhagen. I visited about five years ago, there are still a few idealists
                          living there selling baking and assorted trinkets, and of course there is
                          the house of the fellow that recognized that you needed bikes to get around
                          in Christiania. Needing a special bike for a special place he invented and
                          built the famous "Christiania Bike", which looks nothing like any other bike
                          around.

                          Amazing that they now have a web site too!


                          Wow, thanks for bringing that up.

                          Henning

                          ps. Any errors or omissions?
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                        • Roy Preston
                          Sam asked, what is a dual-carriageway, and how were the cyclists killed. A dual-carriageway is a road with two lanes in either direction. And they were killed
                          Message 12 of 13 , Oct 3, 2000
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                            Sam asked, what is a dual-carriageway, and how were the cyclists killed. A
                            dual-carriageway is a road with two lanes in either direction. And they
                            were killed predominantly by cars entering the dual-carriageway from a
                            slip-road.

                            Answering Ryan's questions: The speed limit has been reduced to 50 from 70
                            mph. and the road is urban 19th century.

                            Louis-Luc and Henning share my sentiments. I'm preparing a letter which, I
                            hope, will provide a reasonable argument against banning cyclists. Thanks
                            for the comments, gang.

                            Roy P(icking out the best bits)
                          • Frank Sierowski
                            ... A dual-carriageway is a road where the traffic in the two directions are physically separated by some sort of barrier. Other people might call them
                            Message 13 of 13 , Oct 5, 2000
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                              > What exactly is a dual-carriageway ... ?

                              A dual-carriageway is a road where the traffic in the two directions are
                              physically separated by some sort of barrier. Other people might call them
                              "divided highways". There will be 2 or more lanes in each direction.

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