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Re: [carfree_cities] carfree phone app

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  • Richard Risemberg
    ... Good goal, but it seems more suited to a web page than a phone app, which would be better served by something similar to Walkscore but returning total
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 3, 2010
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      On Jul 3, 2010, at 2:05 PM, J.H. Crawford wrote:

      > I should have been clearer. I'm not talking specific
      > journeys but comparative ways of living. So, for
      > instance, let's compare living in a suburb of New
      > York City with living carfree in the city itself.
      > How much energy do you use (the average person)
      > to get to work, heat/cool the house, and so forth.
      > One leg of the comparison could be the Reference
      > Design for carfree cities.
      >
      > What I aim to do is show people how energy-intensive
      > auto-centric suburbs are compared to less car-dependent
      > places, and to places where there are no cars.


      Good goal, but it seems more suited to a web page than a phone app,
      which would be better served by something similar to Walkscore but
      returning total energy footprint for a given area, plus a
      characterisation assigned to it based on local factors drawn from
      databases, eg "Suburban--highly wasteful; Euro- Asian-, or US-urban,
      with different sized footprints; carfree-lite; carfree." Various
      reference designs could be included as parametric examples.

      Would require a partnership with various DB owners,, along the model
      of Walkscore.

      RR
      --
      Richard Risemberg
      http://www.bicyclefixation.com
      http://www.newcolonist.com
      http://www.rickrise.com







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Mark Lobjoit
      Hi Joel, I see what you are getting at now. The sites I mentioned are a part of that overall goal for those who are motivated but are not specifically focused
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 4, 2010
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        Hi Joel,

        I see what you are getting at now. The sites I mentioned are a part of that
        overall goal for those who are motivated but are not specifically focused on
        your aim of promoting carfree living.

        There are also quite a few sites which take a "lifestyle" approach and have
        sections for car ownership, transport and commuting as part of calculating a
        carbon footprint (carbon footprint calculators).

        One approach would be to do a search of such existing sites and rank them
        according to their closeness to your own goals and approach the most
        promising from the point of view of making a partnership. It may be that
        they have access to a line of funding which would be available for promoting
        the same or similar goals. It may not even require much beyond a certain
        amount of "tweaking" to highlight the choices you advocate.

        I think we should also bear in mind that policy, economics and marketing at
        central government level may take these choices out of individuals' hands.
        For example on a recent trip to the UK, I was astonished to find that for
        many journeys, the rail ticket pricing was so eye-wateringly expensive that
        it was in fact cheaper to rent a car for a single occupant even.

        Also, housing costs in central London are in many cases so extreme that it
        is out of the question for many people to even think about living close to
        their place of work. Additionally, dependence on public transport severely
        limits people's job opportunities. These are factors which are out of
        individual's hands - why would someone give up their car if it meant also
        being out of a job? How can someone move nearer to their place of work if
        they don't earn enough to do so?

        Having said all that, I quite agree with putting the information in front of
        as many of those who can choose as possible, while not forgetting that here
        is a larger battle to win: the freedom to choose.

        On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 12:37 AM, Richard Risemberg
        <rickrise@...>wrote:

        >
        >
        >
        > On Jul 3, 2010, at 2:05 PM, J.H. Crawford wrote:
        >
        > > I should have been clearer. I'm not talking specific
        > > journeys but comparative ways of living. So, for
        > > instance, let's compare living in a suburb of New
        > > York City with living carfree in the city itself.
        > > How much energy do you use (the average person)
        > > to get to work, heat/cool the house, and so forth.
        > > One leg of the comparison could be the Reference
        > > Design for carfree cities.
        > >
        > > What I aim to do is show people how energy-intensive
        > > auto-centric suburbs are compared to less car-dependent
        > > places, and to places where there are no cars.
        >
        > Good goal, but it seems more suited to a web page than a phone app,
        > which would be better served by something similar to Walkscore but
        > returning total energy footprint for a given area, plus a
        > characterisation assigned to it based on local factors drawn from
        > databases, eg "Suburban--highly wasteful; Euro- Asian-, or US-urban,
        > with different sized footprints; carfree-lite; carfree." Various
        > reference designs could be included as parametric examples.
        >
        > Would require a partnership with various DB owners,, along the model
        > of Walkscore.
        >
        > RR
        > --
        > Richard Risemberg
        > http://www.bicyclefixation.com
        > http://www.newcolonist.com
        > http://www.rickrise.com
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • J.H. Crawford
        Hi All, Sorry to be so late in responding to Mark Lobjoit s post of the 4th. I m rethinking this whole question. Maybe the thing to do is to compare a very
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 8, 2010
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          Hi All,

          Sorry to be so late in responding to Mark Lobjoit's
          post of the 4th.

          I'm rethinking this whole question.

          Maybe the thing to do is to compare a very limited set of
          examples, rather than try to write universal software.

          A few years ago, Rob Matthews wrote and excellent paper:

          http://www.carfree.com/papers/Matthews_CarfreeSpace.pdf

          The Production of Sustainable Urban Space

          This paper compared the Wallingford neighborhood in Seattle
          with the Reference District. Wallingford is widely regarded
          as one of the best residential neighborhoods in Seattle.
          However, on measures of accessibility to shopping and green
          space, it performed surprisingly poorly compared to the
          Reference District, and it is one of the older, close-in
          suburbs built at somewhat higher density than contemporary
          suburbs. (I think it could be argued that it's not a suburb
          at all, but a part of the city proper.)

          If we were to take Wallingford, for which good data is
          already available, and compare it on energy measures to
          the Reference District, I think we might have a convincing
          set of data.

          Any thoughts?

          Best,

          Joel




          >I see what you are getting at now. The sites I mentioned are a part of that
          >overall goal for those who are motivated but are not specifically focused on
          >your aim of promoting carfree living.
          >
          >There are also quite a few sites which take a "lifestyle" approach and have
          >sections for car ownership, transport and commuting as part of calculating a
          >carbon footprint (carbon footprint calculators).
          >
          >One approach would be to do a search of such existing sites and rank them
          >according to their closeness to your own goals and approach the most
          >promising from the point of view of making a partnership. It may be that
          >they have access to a line of funding which would be available for promoting
          >the same or similar goals. It may not even require much beyond a certain
          >amount of "tweaking" to highlight the choices you advocate.
          >
          >I think we should also bear in mind that policy, economics and marketing at
          >central government level may take these choices out of individuals' hands.
          >For example on a recent trip to the UK, I was astonished to find that for
          >many journeys, the rail ticket pricing was so eye-wateringly expensive that
          >it was in fact cheaper to rent a car for a single occupant even.
          >
          >Also, housing costs in central London are in many cases so extreme that it
          >is out of the question for many people to even think about living close to
          >their place of work. Additionally, dependence on public transport severely
          >limits people's job opportunities. These are factors which are out of
          >individual's hands - why would someone give up their car if it meant also
          >being out of a job? How can someone move nearer to their place of work if
          >they don't earn enough to do so?
          >
          >Having said all that, I quite agree with putting the information in front of
          >as many of those who can choose as possible, while not forgetting that here
          >is a larger battle to win: the freedom to choose.
          >
          >On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 12:37 AM, Richard Risemberg
          ><rickrise@...>wrote:
          >
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> On Jul 3, 2010, at 2:05 PM, J.H. Crawford wrote:
          >>
          >> > I should have been clearer. I'm not talking specific
          >> > journeys but comparative ways of living. So, for
          >> > instance, let's compare living in a suburb of New
          >> > York City with living carfree in the city itself.
          >> > How much energy do you use (the average person)
          >> > to get to work, heat/cool the house, and so forth.
          >> > One leg of the comparison could be the Reference
          >> > Design for carfree cities.
          >> >
          >> > What I aim to do is show people how energy-intensive
          >> > auto-centric suburbs are compared to less car-dependent
          >> > places, and to places where there are no cars.
          >>
          >> Good goal, but it seems more suited to a web page than a phone app,
          >> which would be better served by something similar to Walkscore but
          >> returning total energy footprint for a given area, plus a
          >> characterisation assigned to it based on local factors drawn from
          >> databases, eg "Suburban--highly wasteful; Euro- Asian-, or US-urban,
          >> with different sized footprints; carfree-lite; carfree." Various
          >> reference designs could be included as parametric examples.
          >>
          >> Would require a partnership with various DB owners,, along the model
          >> of Walkscore.
          >>
          >> RR
          >> --
          >> Richard Risemberg
          >> http://www.bicyclefixation.com
          >> http://www.newcolonist.com
          >> http://www.rickrise.com
          >>
          >>
          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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          ----- ### -----
          J.H. Crawford . Carfree Cities
          mailbox@... . http://www.carfree.com
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