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Re: [carfree_cities] carfree phone app

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  • Mark Lobjoit
    Here are a couple of UK web site examples that I know of and have successfully used for route planning. http://www.transportdirect.info/ does a pretty good job
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 3, 2010
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      Here are a couple of UK web site examples that I know of and have
      successfully used for route planning.

      http://www.transportdirect.info/ does a pretty good job for journeys within
      the United Kingdom. The CO2 emissions are also calculated for journeys
      within cities so you can compare train/bus/tube/walk combinations vs. car.

      Example:
      CO2 emissions calculator
      Full Itinerary for Sun 04 Jul 10 leaving after 07:55
      FromToLeaveArriveDurationAberdeen AirportExeter International Airp...14:31
      07:14
      (05/07)16hr 43 minsTravelling by: Bus, Train, Underground, Walk
      CO2 emissions for your journey of 664.7 milesDistance Units miles km
      The graph below may be difficult for screenreader users. We recommend that
      you select the Show table view link to see the data in a table.
      Your journey
      [image: Emissions bar chart]
      62.6 kg
      For comparision if you travelled 664.7 miles by:
      Small Car only[image: Small car icon with emissions]
      [image: Emissions bar chart]
      136.4 kg
      with 1 2 3 4 5 occupant(s)Large Car only[image: Large car icon
      with emissions]
      [image: Emissions bar chart]
      275.3 kg
      with 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 occupant(s)Train only[image: Train icon with
      emissions]
      [image: Emissions bar chart]
      61.7 kg
      Coach only[image: Coach icon with emissions]
      [image: Emissions bar chart]
      32.1 kg
      Plane only[image: Plane icon with emissions]
      [image: Emissions bar chart]
      182.9 kg
      Low
      Medium
      High
      v.High
      0
      kg of CO2 per traveller
      276

      Your journey would create 212.7 kg of CO2 less per traveller than travelling
      by large car.

      http://walkit.com/cities/?welcome has good planning tools for walking a
      number of UK cities:

      Example: Putney to Stoke Newington (both in London, about 10 miles)

      http://tinyurl.com/2u6rzmj

      http://walkit.com/walk/?city=london&from=Putney&fuid=457406_505460&to=Stoke+Newington&tuid=434855_459983&rta=old&direct=0

      On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 4:03 PM, J.H. Crawford <mailbox@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      >
      > Hi,
      >
      > Are there any developers of phone applications on this list?
      >
      > I'm thinking we need some sort of application that compares
      > energy consumption of carfree living with auto-centric
      > living. May a web app, instead of a phone app.
      >
      > Ideas?
      >
      > Joel
      >
      > ----- ### -----
      > J.H. Crawford . Carfree Cities
      > mailbox@... <mailbox%40carfree.com> . http://www.carfree.com
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • J.H. Crawford
      Thanks, Mark. I should have been clearer. I m not talking specific journeys but comparative ways of living. So, for instance, let s compare living in a suburb
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 3, 2010
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        Thanks, Mark.

        I should have been clearer. I'm not talking specific
        journeys but comparative ways of living. So, for
        instance, let's compare living in a suburb of New
        York City with living carfree in the city itself.
        How much energy do you use (the average person)
        to get to work, heat/cool the house, and so forth.
        One leg of the comparison could be the Reference
        Design for carfree cities.

        What I aim to do is show people how energy-intensive
        auto-centric suburbs are compared to less car-dependent
        places, and to places where there are no cars.

        Best,

        Joel




        At 2010-07-03 14:54, you wrote:
        >Here are a couple of UK web site examples that I know of and have
        >successfully used for route planning.
        >
        >http://www.transportdirect.info/ does a pretty good job for journeys within
        >the United Kingdom. The CO2 emissions are also calculated for journeys
        >within cities so you can compare train/bus/tube/walk combinations vs. car.
        >
        >Example:
        >CO2 emissions calculator
        >Full Itinerary for Sun 04 Jul 10 leaving after 07:55
        >FromToLeaveArriveDurationAberdeen AirportExeter International Airp...14:31
        >07:14
        >(05/07)16hr 43 minsTravelling by: Bus, Train, Underground, Walk
        >CO2 emissions for your journey of 664.7 milesDistance Units miles km
        >The graph below may be difficult for screenreader users. We recommend that
        >you select the Show table view link to see the data in a table.
        >Your journey
        >[image: Emissions bar chart]
        > 62.6 kg
        > For comparision if you travelled 664.7 miles by:
        >Small Car only[image: Small car icon with emissions]
        >[image: Emissions bar chart]
        > 136.4 kg
        >with 1 2 3 4 5 occupant(s)Large Car only[image: Large car icon
        >with emissions]
        >[image: Emissions bar chart]
        > 275.3 kg
        >with 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 occupant(s)Train only[image: Train icon with
        >emissions]
        >[image: Emissions bar chart]
        > 61.7 kg
        >Coach only[image: Coach icon with emissions]
        >[image: Emissions bar chart]
        > 32.1 kg
        >Plane only[image: Plane icon with emissions]
        >[image: Emissions bar chart]
        > 182.9 kg
        >Low
        >Medium
        >High
        >v.High
        >0
        > kg of CO2 per traveller
        >276
        >
        >Your journey would create 212.7 kg of CO2 less per traveller than travelling
        >by large car.
        >
        >http://walkit.com/cities/?welcome has good planning tools for walking a
        >number of UK cities:
        >
        >Example: Putney to Stoke Newington (both in London, about 10 miles)
        >
        >http://tinyurl.com/2u6rzmj
        >
        >http://walkit.com/walk/?city=london&from=Putney&fuid=457406_505460&to=
        >Stoke+Newington&tuid=434855_459983&rta=old&direct=0
        >
        >On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 4:03 PM, J.H. Crawford <mailbox@...> wrote:
        >
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Hi,
        >>
        >> Are there any developers of phone applications on this list?
        >>
        >> I'm thinking we need some sort of application that compares
        >> energy consumption of carfree living with auto-centric
        >> living. May a web app, instead of a phone app.
        >>
        >> Ideas?
        >>
        >> Joel
        >>
        >> ----- ### -----
        >> J.H. Crawford . Carfree Cities
        >> mailbox@... <mailbox%40carfree.com> . http://www.carfree.com
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >------------------------------------
        >
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        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >

        ----- ### -----
        J.H. Crawford . Carfree Cities
        mailbox@... . http://www.carfree.com
      • Richard Risemberg
        ... Good goal, but it seems more suited to a web page than a phone app, which would be better served by something similar to Walkscore but returning total
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 3, 2010
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          On Jul 3, 2010, at 2:05 PM, J.H. Crawford wrote:

          > I should have been clearer. I'm not talking specific
          > journeys but comparative ways of living. So, for
          > instance, let's compare living in a suburb of New
          > York City with living carfree in the city itself.
          > How much energy do you use (the average person)
          > to get to work, heat/cool the house, and so forth.
          > One leg of the comparison could be the Reference
          > Design for carfree cities.
          >
          > What I aim to do is show people how energy-intensive
          > auto-centric suburbs are compared to less car-dependent
          > places, and to places where there are no cars.


          Good goal, but it seems more suited to a web page than a phone app,
          which would be better served by something similar to Walkscore but
          returning total energy footprint for a given area, plus a
          characterisation assigned to it based on local factors drawn from
          databases, eg "Suburban--highly wasteful; Euro- Asian-, or US-urban,
          with different sized footprints; carfree-lite; carfree." Various
          reference designs could be included as parametric examples.

          Would require a partnership with various DB owners,, along the model
          of Walkscore.

          RR
          --
          Richard Risemberg
          http://www.bicyclefixation.com
          http://www.newcolonist.com
          http://www.rickrise.com







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Mark Lobjoit
          Hi Joel, I see what you are getting at now. The sites I mentioned are a part of that overall goal for those who are motivated but are not specifically focused
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 4, 2010
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            Hi Joel,

            I see what you are getting at now. The sites I mentioned are a part of that
            overall goal for those who are motivated but are not specifically focused on
            your aim of promoting carfree living.

            There are also quite a few sites which take a "lifestyle" approach and have
            sections for car ownership, transport and commuting as part of calculating a
            carbon footprint (carbon footprint calculators).

            One approach would be to do a search of such existing sites and rank them
            according to their closeness to your own goals and approach the most
            promising from the point of view of making a partnership. It may be that
            they have access to a line of funding which would be available for promoting
            the same or similar goals. It may not even require much beyond a certain
            amount of "tweaking" to highlight the choices you advocate.

            I think we should also bear in mind that policy, economics and marketing at
            central government level may take these choices out of individuals' hands.
            For example on a recent trip to the UK, I was astonished to find that for
            many journeys, the rail ticket pricing was so eye-wateringly expensive that
            it was in fact cheaper to rent a car for a single occupant even.

            Also, housing costs in central London are in many cases so extreme that it
            is out of the question for many people to even think about living close to
            their place of work. Additionally, dependence on public transport severely
            limits people's job opportunities. These are factors which are out of
            individual's hands - why would someone give up their car if it meant also
            being out of a job? How can someone move nearer to their place of work if
            they don't earn enough to do so?

            Having said all that, I quite agree with putting the information in front of
            as many of those who can choose as possible, while not forgetting that here
            is a larger battle to win: the freedom to choose.

            On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 12:37 AM, Richard Risemberg
            <rickrise@...>wrote:

            >
            >
            >
            > On Jul 3, 2010, at 2:05 PM, J.H. Crawford wrote:
            >
            > > I should have been clearer. I'm not talking specific
            > > journeys but comparative ways of living. So, for
            > > instance, let's compare living in a suburb of New
            > > York City with living carfree in the city itself.
            > > How much energy do you use (the average person)
            > > to get to work, heat/cool the house, and so forth.
            > > One leg of the comparison could be the Reference
            > > Design for carfree cities.
            > >
            > > What I aim to do is show people how energy-intensive
            > > auto-centric suburbs are compared to less car-dependent
            > > places, and to places where there are no cars.
            >
            > Good goal, but it seems more suited to a web page than a phone app,
            > which would be better served by something similar to Walkscore but
            > returning total energy footprint for a given area, plus a
            > characterisation assigned to it based on local factors drawn from
            > databases, eg "Suburban--highly wasteful; Euro- Asian-, or US-urban,
            > with different sized footprints; carfree-lite; carfree." Various
            > reference designs could be included as parametric examples.
            >
            > Would require a partnership with various DB owners,, along the model
            > of Walkscore.
            >
            > RR
            > --
            > Richard Risemberg
            > http://www.bicyclefixation.com
            > http://www.newcolonist.com
            > http://www.rickrise.com
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • J.H. Crawford
            Hi All, Sorry to be so late in responding to Mark Lobjoit s post of the 4th. I m rethinking this whole question. Maybe the thing to do is to compare a very
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 8, 2010
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              Hi All,

              Sorry to be so late in responding to Mark Lobjoit's
              post of the 4th.

              I'm rethinking this whole question.

              Maybe the thing to do is to compare a very limited set of
              examples, rather than try to write universal software.

              A few years ago, Rob Matthews wrote and excellent paper:

              http://www.carfree.com/papers/Matthews_CarfreeSpace.pdf

              The Production of Sustainable Urban Space

              This paper compared the Wallingford neighborhood in Seattle
              with the Reference District. Wallingford is widely regarded
              as one of the best residential neighborhoods in Seattle.
              However, on measures of accessibility to shopping and green
              space, it performed surprisingly poorly compared to the
              Reference District, and it is one of the older, close-in
              suburbs built at somewhat higher density than contemporary
              suburbs. (I think it could be argued that it's not a suburb
              at all, but a part of the city proper.)

              If we were to take Wallingford, for which good data is
              already available, and compare it on energy measures to
              the Reference District, I think we might have a convincing
              set of data.

              Any thoughts?

              Best,

              Joel




              >I see what you are getting at now. The sites I mentioned are a part of that
              >overall goal for those who are motivated but are not specifically focused on
              >your aim of promoting carfree living.
              >
              >There are also quite a few sites which take a "lifestyle" approach and have
              >sections for car ownership, transport and commuting as part of calculating a
              >carbon footprint (carbon footprint calculators).
              >
              >One approach would be to do a search of such existing sites and rank them
              >according to their closeness to your own goals and approach the most
              >promising from the point of view of making a partnership. It may be that
              >they have access to a line of funding which would be available for promoting
              >the same or similar goals. It may not even require much beyond a certain
              >amount of "tweaking" to highlight the choices you advocate.
              >
              >I think we should also bear in mind that policy, economics and marketing at
              >central government level may take these choices out of individuals' hands.
              >For example on a recent trip to the UK, I was astonished to find that for
              >many journeys, the rail ticket pricing was so eye-wateringly expensive that
              >it was in fact cheaper to rent a car for a single occupant even.
              >
              >Also, housing costs in central London are in many cases so extreme that it
              >is out of the question for many people to even think about living close to
              >their place of work. Additionally, dependence on public transport severely
              >limits people's job opportunities. These are factors which are out of
              >individual's hands - why would someone give up their car if it meant also
              >being out of a job? How can someone move nearer to their place of work if
              >they don't earn enough to do so?
              >
              >Having said all that, I quite agree with putting the information in front of
              >as many of those who can choose as possible, while not forgetting that here
              >is a larger battle to win: the freedom to choose.
              >
              >On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 12:37 AM, Richard Risemberg
              ><rickrise@...>wrote:
              >
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> On Jul 3, 2010, at 2:05 PM, J.H. Crawford wrote:
              >>
              >> > I should have been clearer. I'm not talking specific
              >> > journeys but comparative ways of living. So, for
              >> > instance, let's compare living in a suburb of New
              >> > York City with living carfree in the city itself.
              >> > How much energy do you use (the average person)
              >> > to get to work, heat/cool the house, and so forth.
              >> > One leg of the comparison could be the Reference
              >> > Design for carfree cities.
              >> >
              >> > What I aim to do is show people how energy-intensive
              >> > auto-centric suburbs are compared to less car-dependent
              >> > places, and to places where there are no cars.
              >>
              >> Good goal, but it seems more suited to a web page than a phone app,
              >> which would be better served by something similar to Walkscore but
              >> returning total energy footprint for a given area, plus a
              >> characterisation assigned to it based on local factors drawn from
              >> databases, eg "Suburban--highly wasteful; Euro- Asian-, or US-urban,
              >> with different sized footprints; carfree-lite; carfree." Various
              >> reference designs could be included as parametric examples.
              >>
              >> Would require a partnership with various DB owners,, along the model
              >> of Walkscore.
              >>
              >> RR
              >> --
              >> Richard Risemberg
              >> http://www.bicyclefixation.com
              >> http://www.newcolonist.com
              >> http://www.rickrise.com
              >>
              >>
              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >------------------------------------
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              >
              >
              >
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              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >

              ----- ### -----
              J.H. Crawford . Carfree Cities
              mailbox@... . http://www.carfree.com
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