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Re: Two takes on "green" cars

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  • Erik Sandblom
    ... A lot of the noise from cars is from the tyres, not the engine. I suspect tyre noise grows faster with speed than engine noise. It would be interesting to
    Message 1 of 11 , May 1, 2009
      --- In carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com, "J.H. Crawford" <mailbox@...> wrote:
      >
      > The other point that needs to be made here is that
      > if ALL vehicles are relatively quiet, they will all
      > be audible. It's only when there is a large disparity
      > between the sound levels of the vehicles that the
      > quiet ones cannot be heard.


      A lot of the noise from cars is from the tyres, not the engine. I
      suspect tyre noise grows faster with speed than engine noise. It would
      be interesting to know the cutoff point where more noise is coming
      from tyres.
    • J.H. Crawford
      ... In Amsterdam I almost never had a problem with this despite being surrounded by hundreds of families with doubtless dozens of dogs. The only regular
      Message 2 of 11 , May 3, 2009
        Re:

        >- Dogs. Many residents leave their dogs outside while at work or sleeping, and they bark for hours on end. I'm wondering how carfree cities would handle this--I sure wouldn't want to live in a row house next to someone like this.

        In Amsterdam I almost never had a problem with this despite
        being surrounded by hundreds of families with doubtless
        dozens of dogs. The only regular offender was... an American
        family. They denied that their dog barked.

        >- Electric tools. Air compressors and circular saws make enough noise that your neighbors will know what you're doing, but these noises are generally in short bursts and have never bothered me. Again, not a problem. Is there any easy way to contain electric tool noise from a construction site in a carfree area?

        This can be objectionable. In the new book I have called
        for limits on tools and noise levels. (Some tools are
        MUCH quieter than others.) This is a reason to concentrate
        all construction activities in a short period.

        BTW--I have been building a deck recently, and I have been
        doing all the sawing by hand. With a sharp saw, it's nowhere
        near as difficult as you might think. Of course, where to
        get a saw sharpened these days is another matter.

        Best,

        Joel




        ----- ### -----
        J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
        mailbox@... http://www.carfree.com
      • Matt Hohmeister
        My sister and brother-in-law--both American--have two dogs that bark very little. I guess you just have to know how to care for these very attention-hungry
        Message 3 of 11 , May 5, 2009
          My sister and brother-in-law--both American--have two dogs that bark very little. I guess you just have to know how to care for these very attention-hungry animals.

          > In Amsterdam I almost never had a problem with this despite
          > being surrounded by hundreds of families with doubtless
          > dozens of dogs. The only regular offender was... an American
          > family. They denied that their dog barked.

          I've noticed that cheap power tools tend to make a LOT more noise than their better-made counterparts. Anyone who's ever used a direct-drive air compressor vs. a belt-driven compressor has noticed this.

          I've heard proposals to regulate noise to 70 dB, measured at the property line, exception for burglar/fire/flood/temperature/etc alarms. A typical electric leaf blower is this loud at 50', ruling them out for use in most areas of a carfree city.

          > This can be objectionable. In the new book I have called
          > for limits on tools and noise levels. (Some tools are
          > MUCH quieter than others.) This is a reason to concentrate
          > all construction activities in a short period.
          >
          > BTW--I have been building a deck recently, and I have been
          > doing all the sawing by hand. With a sharp saw, it's nowhere
          > near as difficult as you might think. Of course, where to
          > get a saw sharpened these days is another matter.
          >
          > Best,
          >
          > Joel
        • Jason Meggs
          Noise is an enormous public health problem which is only just beginning to be addressed again. In the USA, the EPA s nascent Noise Control Division was
          Message 4 of 11 , May 5, 2009
            Noise is an enormous public health problem which is only just beginning to
            be addressed again.

            In the USA, the EPA's nascent Noise Control Division was remarkably gutted
            by the new Reagan Admininstration. A calculation of lives and DALYs lost
            due to that would surely be staggering. Noise kills. (One of the effects of
            that act is that transit agencies cannot specify noise as a condition for
            purchasing transit vehicles, and so transit vehicles often are many times
            louder than private vehicles in the USA. This is particularly harmful as
            transit corridors often run at night when other traffic is light, and
            through the densest population centers where the most people are exposed.)

            In Europe, noise has recently been identified as a top public health concern
            and mobilization is taking place to address it in a variety of ways, and for
            good reason:

            "About 65% of the population of the European Union is exposed regularly to
            sound levels (55-65 dB) that lead to serious annoyance, interference with
            speech, and sleep disturbance. This proportion has increased over the past
            decades.22<http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1116028#B22>Very
            loud noise (65 to 75 dB) is associated with a small increase in
            cardiovascular disease, which might have a large impact on the population in
            view of the wide
            exposure.23<http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1116028#B23>Furthermore,
            the attention, problem solving ability, and reading acquisition
            of children exposed regularly to aircraft noise are impaired. Noise also
            interferes with memory, attention, and the ability to deal with complex
            analytical problems.24<http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1116028#B24>Transportation
            is the main source of noise in Europe, and road traffic is
            the main source of human exposure to noise, except for people living near
            airports or railway
            lines.25<http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1116028#B25>"

            http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1116028

            So yes, all onoise sources are needing a rethinking, and regulations of
            power tools, vehicles, and more are critically important to public health.

            Worth mentioning that in Berkeley, CA at least, use of private
            combustion-powered leaf blowers has been banned.

            Jason Meggs



            On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 6:25 PM, J.H. Crawford <mailbox@...> wrote:

            >
            >
            >
            > Re:
            >
            >
            > >- Dogs. Many residents leave their dogs outside while at work or sleeping,
            > and they bark for hours on end. I'm wondering how carfree cities would
            > handle this--I sure wouldn't want to live in a row house next to someone
            > like this.
            >
            > In Amsterdam I almost never had a problem with this despite
            > being surrounded by hundreds of families with doubtless
            > dozens of dogs. The only regular offender was... an American
            > family. They denied that their dog barked.
            >
            > >- Electric tools. Air compressors and circular saws make enough noise that
            > your neighbors will know what you're doing, but these noises are generally
            > in short bursts and have never bothered me. Again, not a problem. Is there
            > any easy way to contain electric tool noise from a construction site in a
            > carfree area?
            >
            > This can be objectionable. In the new book I have called
            > for limits on tools and noise levels. (Some tools are
            > MUCH quieter than others.) This is a reason to concentrate
            > all construction activities in a short period.
            >
            > BTW--I have been building a deck recently, and I have been
            > doing all the sawing by hand. With a sharp saw, it's nowhere
            > near as difficult as you might think. Of course, where to
            > get a saw sharpened these days is another matter.
            >
            > Best,
            >
            > Joel
            >
            > ----- ### -----
            > J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
            > mailbox@... <mailbox%40carfree.com> http://www.carfree.com
            >
            >
            >


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