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Re: [carfree_cities] Cycling in Pedestrian Areas

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  • Richard Risemberg
    ... Sounds good to me. My normal bicycling speed in LA is 17 to 22mph, which does not mix well with pedestrians. In a carfree city, bikes would replace metro
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 20, 2008
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      On Mar 20, 2008, at 6:24 PM, jackskellin9ton wrote:

      > I've been wondering about the best ways to integrate cycling into
      > pedestrian areas.
      >
      > My own preference would be to just let pedestrians and cyclists share
      > the same space, requiring cyclists to travel slowly; with faster,
      > dedicated cycle lanes wholly outside pedestrian areas.
      >
      > And I was wondering what others thought.


      Sounds good to me. My normal bicycling speed in LA is 17 to 22mph,
      which does not mix well with pedestrians. In a carfree city, bikes
      would replace metro for intermediate trips for perhaps many folks; it
      is good to encourage this both for health reasons and to reduce
      electric energy use. However, you don't want bike paths to take
      over, so it would have to be carefully thought out. We definitely
      don't want to discourage pedestrians from using the whole street;
      then again, bikes use 1/4 the food calories per mile that walking
      does at the usual 12mph urban pace, so a certain degree of
      accommodation would be worthwhile.

      But how much? Perhaps bikepaths running along the borders between
      lobes, with offramps et al? We're talking infrastructure about 2.5
      meters wide generally. Spaced far enough apart, they could provide
      fast intermediate-distance access without restricting conviviality.
      Once bikes came onto street level, they would have to slow down
      enough to mix with walkers, of course.

      They would be a great way to get out into the country, where rail
      ROWs would naturally spread apart considerably. (And of course they
      could be taken on trains as they are now.)

      Rick
      --
      Richard Risemberg
      http://www.bicyclefixation.com
      http://www.newcolonist.com
      http://www.rickrise.com







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    • Michael Lewis
      ... What would be the advantage to integrating bicyclists and pedestrians? Why not have bicycle routes for bicyclists, who dismount and walk with the
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 20, 2008
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        jackskellin9ton wrote:
        > Hey guys,
        >
        > I've been wondering about the best ways to integrate cycling into
        > pedestrian areas.
        >
        > My own preference would be to just let pedestrians and cyclists share
        > the same space, requiring cyclists to travel slowly; with faster,
        > dedicated cycle lanes wholly outside pedestrian areas.

        What would be the advantage to integrating bicyclists and pedestrians?
        Why not have bicycle routes for bicyclists, who dismount and walk with
        the pedestrians on pedestrian routes.

        How would one "require" bicyclists to ravel slowly where pedestrians
        are present? How would this be enforced?

        Michael
      • Richard Risemberg
        ... Less duplication of infrastructure. ... Seems to work fine in Japan--where, by the way, bikes were allowed on the sidewalks only recently. Jokers in Japan
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 20, 2008
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          On Mar 20, 2008, at 7:46 PM, Michael Lewis wrote:

          > What would be the advantage to integrating bicyclists and pedestrians?
          > Why not have bicycle routes for bicyclists, who dismount and walk with
          > the pedestrians on pedestrian routes.
          >
          Less duplication of infrastructure.

          > How would one "require" bicyclists to ravel slowly where pedestrians
          > are present? How would this be enforced?


          Seems to work fine in Japan--where, by the way, bikes were allowed on
          the sidewalks only recently.

          Jokers in Japan will sometimes vigorously ring the bell of a parked
          bicycle to startle friends who are walking ahead of them.

          Rick
          --
          Richard Risemberg
          http://www.bicyclefixation.com
          http://www.newcolonist.com
          http://www.rickrise.com







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        • Ian Fiddies
          It seems that most of the conflicts between cyclists and pedestrians happen when the two modes are separated. In Gröningen (NL) bikers and walkers share much
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 21, 2008
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            It seems that most of the conflicts between cyclists and pedestrians happen when the two modes are separated. In Gröningen (NL) bikers and walkers share much of the central area without any sign of conflict. (Parked bikes in pedestrian areas is a problem though.)

            The only reason different transport types are separated in cities is car culture. Take away the car culture with the cars. I am personally happy to slow down on my bike when I'm in the crowded city centre. Think how desolate it would be with a city so traffic segregated that you could cycle though the centre at 22mph.
            /Ian Fiddies

            ________________________________
            > To: carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com
            > From: jackskellin9ton@...
            > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 01:24:31 +0000
            > Subject: [carfree_cities] Cycling in Pedestrian Areas
            >
            >
            > Hey guys,
            >
            > I've been wondering about the best ways to integrate cycling into
            > pedestrian areas.
            >
            > My own preference would be to just let pedestrians and cyclists share
            > the same space, requiring cyclists to travel slowly; with faster,
            > dedicated cycle lanes wholly outside pedestrian areas.
            >
            > And I was wondering what others thought.
            >
            > Chris
            >
            > ecotownZ.co.uk
            >
            >
            >

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          • J.H. Crawford
            See the Ravenna solution: http://www.carfree.com/design/02/pix/2rav2908.jpg Joel ... J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 21, 2008
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              See the Ravenna solution:

              http://www.carfree.com/design/02/pix/2rav2908.jpg

              Joel


              ----- ### -----
              J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
              mailbox@... http://www.carfree.com
            • Richard Risemberg
              ... And the texture of the paving will help discourage speeding.... R -- Richard Risemberg http://www.bicyclefixation.com http://www.newcolonist.com
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 21, 2008
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                On Mar 21, 2008, at 8:46 AM, J.H. Crawford wrote:

                > See the Ravenna solution:
                >
                > http://www.carfree.com/design/02/pix/2rav2908.jpg


                And the texture of the paving will help discourage speeding....

                R
                --
                Richard Risemberg
                http://www.bicyclefixation.com
                http://www.newcolonist.com
                http://www.rickrise.com







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              • Robert J. Matter
                http://pages.prodigy.net/rjmatter/gallery/bikesinholland22.jpg -RJM
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 21, 2008
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                • jackskellin9ton
                  Thanks for the input. In the end I went with http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/doubleplus/cloverleaf_city/ecotown/variations .htm
                  Message 8 of 9 , Mar 23, 2008
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                    Thanks for the input.

                    In the end I went with
                    http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/doubleplus/cloverleaf_city/ecotown/variations\
                    .htm
                    <http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/doubleplus/cloverleaf_city/ecotown/variation\
                    s.htm>

                    (Scroll down to cycle path)

                    Chris



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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