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Malta`s optical carfree TignePoint development // Re: [carfree_cities] carfree development, in progress

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  • Markus Heller
    Hi Joel, I don`t know, if those rich TignePoint people hate cars . They are still addicted: did you see that they hide all the cars in underground garages ?
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 2, 2007
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      Hi Joel,

      I don`t know, if those rich TignePoint people "hate cars". They are still
      addicted: did you see that they hide all the cars in underground garages ?
      That will cost much money, doesn`t solve any problem with air pollution, and
      stabilises the existing car-oriented structure around.

      To me, those optical carfree quarters are only one small (& slow) step
      towards carfree cities. Good point is the carfree surface and how
      tignepoint.com celebrates its advantages - this intensity from a developer`s
      side seems still new and encouraging -, but still remains the conventional
      personal mobility behaviour, except that those people don`t need to "see"
      their car all the time.

      cheers,
      Markus


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: J.H. Crawford
      To: carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:00 PM
      Subject: [carfree_cities] carfree development, in progress


      Hi All,

      Carfree cities are coming, even if it's slow:

      http://www.tignepoint.com/stop-press/news-7-Tign-Point-Car-Free-Day-Every-Day.html

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigne_Point

      http://maltaproperty.blogspot.com/2006/05/people-centred-design-at-tign-point.html

      This is a high-end project. Rich people hate cars just as much as everyone
      else.
      They just have the money to do something about it.

      Regards,

      ----- ### -----
      J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
      mailbox@... http://www.carfree.com
    • Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory
      Hi, Obvious cynical remark: It s a huge outdoor shopping mall with housing. Second one: Concrete industry loves carfree More technical comment: That s a lot of
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 2, 2007
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        Hi,

        Obvious cynical remark: It's a huge outdoor shopping mall with housing.

        Second one: Concrete industry loves carfree

        More technical comment: That's a lot of underground parking... I wonder
        how much private car traffic it is inducing...

        Second technical comment: How will people get there who don't have cars?

        What I would say if I was a tour guide there? "Okay, folks. Imagine if
        there were no cars at all underneath this place...nice, huh?"

        - T

        Markus Heller wrote:

        > Hi Joel,
        >
        > I don`t know, if those rich TignePoint people "hate cars". They are still
        > addicted: did you see that they hide all the cars in underground garages ?
        > That will cost much money, doesn`t solve any problem with air
        > pollution, and
        > stabilises the existing car-oriented structure around.
        >
        > To me, those optical carfree quarters are only one small (& slow) step
        > towards carfree cities. Good point is the carfree surface and how
        > tignepoint.com celebrates its advantages - this intensity from a
        > developer`s
        > side seems still new and encouraging -, but still remains the
        > conventional
        > personal mobility behaviour, except that those people don`t need to "see"
        > their car all the time.
        >
        > cheers,
        > Markus
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: J.H. Crawford
        > To: carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:carfree_cities%40yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:00 PM
        > Subject: [carfree_cities] carfree development, in progress
        >
        > Hi All,
        >
        > Carfree cities are coming, even if it's slow:
        >
        > http://www.tignepoint.com/stop-press/news-7-Tign-Point-Car-Free-Day-Every-Day.html
        > <http://www.tignepoint.com/stop-press/news-7-Tign-Point-Car-Free-Day-Every-Day.html>
        >
        > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigne_Point
        > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigne_Point>
        >
        > http://maltaproperty.blogspot.com/2006/05/people-centred-design-at-tign-point.html
        > <http://maltaproperty.blogspot.com/2006/05/people-centred-design-at-tign-point.html>
        >
        > This is a high-end project. Rich people hate cars just as much as everyone
        > else.
        > They just have the money to do something about it.
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > ----- ### -----
        > J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
        > mailbox@... <mailto:mailbox%40carfree.com>
        > http://www.carfree.com <http://www.carfree.com>
        >
        >


        --
        --------------------------------------------

        Todd Edelman
        Director
        Green Idea Factory

        Korunní 72
        CZ-10100 Praha 10
        Czech Republic

        Skype: toddedelman
        ++420 605 915 970
        ++420 222 517 832

        edelman@...
        http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/
        www.flickr.com/photos/edelman

        Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network
        www.worldcarfree.net
      • bruun@seas.upenn.edu
        Hi, all: To add to what Todd and Markus said, underground parking garages dramatically the raise the cost of housing above it, sometimes even doubling it in
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 6, 2007
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          Hi, all:

          To add to what Todd and Markus said, underground parking garages
          dramatically the raise the cost of housing above it, sometimes even
          doubling it in price if a multi-level facility is built. Thus, it is a
          good way to guarantee there will be no affordable housing. BTW, it can
          dramatically raise the cost of office space too, encouraging companies
          to move to where there are surface parking lots.

          Eric Bruun

          Quoting "Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory" <edelman@...>:

          > Hi,
          >
          > Obvious cynical remark: It's a huge outdoor shopping mall with housing.
          >
          > Second one: Concrete industry loves carfree
          >
          > More technical comment: That's a lot of underground parking... I wonder
          > how much private car traffic it is inducing...
          >
          > Second technical comment: How will people get there who don't have cars?
          >
          > What I would say if I was a tour guide there? "Okay, folks. Imagine if
          > there were no cars at all underneath this place...nice, huh?"
          >
          > - T
          >
          > Markus Heller wrote:
          >
          >> Hi Joel,
          >>
          >> I don`t know, if those rich TignePoint people "hate cars". They are still
          >> addicted: did you see that they hide all the cars in underground garages ?
          >> That will cost much money, doesn`t solve any problem with air
          >> pollution, and
          >> stabilises the existing car-oriented structure around.
          >>
          >> To me, those optical carfree quarters are only one small (& slow) step
          >> towards carfree cities. Good point is the carfree surface and how
          >> tignepoint.com celebrates its advantages - this intensity from a
          >> developer`s
          >> side seems still new and encouraging -, but still remains the
          >> conventional
          >> personal mobility behaviour, except that those people don`t need to "see"
          >> their car all the time.
          >>
          >> cheers,
          >> Markus
          >>
          >> ----- Original Message -----
          >> From: J.H. Crawford
          >> To: carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com
          >> <mailto:carfree_cities%40yahoogroups.com>
          >> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:00 PM
          >> Subject: [carfree_cities] carfree development, in progress
          >>
          >> Hi All,
          >>
          >> Carfree cities are coming, even if it's slow:
          >>
          >> http://www.tignepoint.com/stop-press/news-7-Tign-Point-Car-Free-Day-Every-Day.html
          >> <http://www.tignepoint.com/stop-press/news-7-Tign-Point-Car-Free-Day-Every-Day.html>
          >>
          >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigne_Point
          >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigne_Point>
          >>
          >> http://maltaproperty.blogspot.com/2006/05/people-centred-design-at-tign-point.html
          >> <http://maltaproperty.blogspot.com/2006/05/people-centred-design-at-tign-point.html>
          >>
          >> This is a high-end project. Rich people hate cars just as much as everyone
          >> else.
          >> They just have the money to do something about it.
          >>
          >> Regards,
          >>
          >> ----- ### -----
          >> J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
          >> mailbox@... <mailto:mailbox%40carfree.com>
          >> http://www.carfree.com <http://www.carfree.com>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          > --
          > --------------------------------------------
          >
          > Todd Edelman
          > Director
          > Green Idea Factory
          >
          > Korunní 72
          > CZ-10100 Praha 10
          > Czech Republic
          >
          > Skype: toddedelman
          > ++420 605 915 970
          > ++420 222 517 832
          >
          > edelman@...
          > http://greenideafactory.blogspot.com/
          > www.flickr.com/photos/edelman
          >
          > Green Idea Factory is a member of World Carfree Network
          > www.worldcarfree.net
          >
          >
        • J.H. Crawford
          Hi Markus, ... I didn t figure out how many cars are accommodated, but I imagine it s quite a few, and it will be expensive. ... Yes, but the local quality of
          Message 4 of 4 , Nov 10, 2007
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            Hi Markus,

            >I don`t know, if those rich TignePoint people "hate cars". They are still
            >addicted: did you see that they hide all the cars in underground garages ?

            I didn't figure out how many cars are accommodated, but I imagine it's
            quite a few, and it will be expensive.

            >That will cost much money, doesn`t solve any problem with air pollution, and
            >stabilises the existing car-oriented structure around.

            Yes, but the local quality of life WILL be better. In the beginning,
            I think it's going to be difficult to get pure carfree projects,
            because the infrastructure for carfree life just isn't there yet,
            at least not in most cities.

            >To me, those optical carfree quarters are only one small (& slow) step
            >towards carfree cities. Good point is the carfree surface and how
            >tignepoint.com celebrates its advantages - this intensity from a developer`s
            >side seems still new and encouraging -, but still remains the conventional
            >personal mobility behaviour, except that those people don`t need to "see"
            >their car all the time.

            Yes, I think it's instructive that rich people hate cars (except their
            own limousine) and don't want to look at them. The rest of us can
            just suffer, I guess.

            Best,

            Joel




            ----- ### -----
            J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
            mailbox@... http://www.carfree.com
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