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Re: [carfree_cities] Carful Cities

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  • Richard Risemberg
    On Aug 15, 2007, at 1:18 AM, manfrommars_43 wrote:I m halfway through the book and am fascinated by it all. As a ... Los Angeles achieved its major growth well
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 15, 2007
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      On Aug 15, 2007, at 1:18 AM, manfrommars_43 wrote:I'm halfway through
      the book and am fascinated by it all. As a
      >
      > But, this is where the contrarian in me rises up. The book talks a
      > lot about the recent arrival of cars...the last hundred years, and how
      > cities were inundated with them.
      >
      > Well, couldn't you say the opposite...that our cities are build in
      > outdated patterns and using pre-car technologies. Could you not also
      > say that the reason for all these problems is that the cities were not
      > designed during the car era -- and what is more, our urban planners
      > and designers have not lived with cars long enough to know how to
      > build a really car oriented city?
      >

      Los Angeles achieved its major growth well after the automobile,
      likewise Phoenix and many other western US cities, all of which have
      horrendous problems relate4d to autocentric design that still doesn't
      accommodate all the cars necessitated by autocentric design.



      All present-day suburban areas grew around autocentric patterns, and
      fail because of autocentric patterns. Greater Atlanta, et al.

      We've tried designing cities around car use. Doesn't work.



      Rick

      --
      Richard Risemberg
      http://www.bicyclefixation.com
      http://www.newcolonist.com
      http://www.rickrise.com
    • Jym Dyer
      ... =v= I wouldn t call that contrarian at all; that s been the attitude fueling land-use patterns and policies since WWII. We have half a decade of experience
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 15, 2007
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        > Well, couldn't you say the opposite...that our cities are
        > build in outdated patterns and using pre-car technologies.

        =v= I wouldn't call that contrarian at all; that's been the
        attitude fueling land-use patterns and policies since WWII.
        We have half a decade of experience with it at this point, and
        have found that it's not everything it was cracked up to be.
        <_Jym_>
      • doug@sfbackstory.com
        As Jym and Rick have pointed out, we have been experimenting with autocentric design for rather a long time in the US -- between 60 and 90 years, depending
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 15, 2007
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          As Jym and Rick have pointed out, we have been experimenting with autocentric design for rather a long time in the US -- between 60 and 90 years, depending upon the observational parameters one wishes to adopt. This era has produced not one, single, livable, sustainable city or district. Not one.

          What's more, autocentrism hasn't even been able to make our cities work for *cars* -- let alone people. For many years, now, some of us have been challenging the Pave-the-World Federation to show us *one* urban road-building or -widening project that has resulted in long-term congestion relief. Hasn't happened.

          I'm pretty confident that the results of the experiment are in, and are conclusive: cars and cities are incompatible. Been there, done that, got the greasy t-shirt.

          -Doug

          ************************
          Could you not also
          say that the reason for all these problems is that the cities were not
          designed during the car era -- and what is more, our urban planners
          and designers have not lived with cars long enough to know how to
          build a really car oriented city?
        • Ryan Lanyon
          Further on that - it didn t take long to successfully design cities around the streetcar in a somewhat sustainable and manageable way in the late 19th and
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 15, 2007
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            Further on that - it didn't take long to successfully design cities around the streetcar in a somewhat sustainable and manageable way in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries.

            -RL

            >>> doug@... 08/15/2007 1:03 PM >>>

            As Jym and Rick have pointed out, we have been experimenting with autocentric design for rather a long time in the US -- between 60 and 90 years, depending upon the observational parameters one wishes to adopt. This era has produced not one, single, livable, sustainable city or district. Not one.

            What's more, autocentrism hasn't even been able to make our cities work for *cars* -- let alone people. For many years, now, some of us have been challenging the Pave-the-World Federation to show us *one* urban road-building or -widening project that has resulted in long-term congestion relief. Hasn't happened.

            I'm pretty confident that the results of the experiment are in, and are conclusive: cars and cities are incompatible. Been there, done that, got the greasy t-shirt.

            -Doug

            ************************
            Could you not also
            say that the reason for all these problems is that the cities were not
            designed during the car era -- and what is more, our urban planners
            and designers have not lived with cars long enough to know how to
            build a really car oriented city?








            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • dubluth
            ... Cities not car oriented? In the US, planners did a great deal to force urban areas to accomodate cars. What functions would a more car oriented city
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 17, 2007
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              --- In carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com, "manfrommars_43" <jabailo@...>
              wrote:
              >

              > Could you not also say that the reason for all
              > these problems is that the cities were not
              > designed during the car era -- and what is more,
              > our urban planners and designers have not lived
              > with cars long enough to know how to build a
              > really car oriented city?
              >

              Cities not car oriented? In the US, planners did a great deal to
              force urban areas to accomodate cars. What functions would a more car
              oriented city serve?
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