Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Carful Cities

Expand Messages
  • manfrommars_43
    I m halfway through the book and am fascinated by it all. As a person who is doing more daily commutes to work by bicycle (only 6 miles away, but through a
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 15, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      I'm halfway through the book and am fascinated by it all. As a
      person who is doing more daily commutes to work by bicycle (only 6
      miles away, but through a heavily trafficked suburban town center --
      Kent, Washington), I am suffering greatly with the proximity of so
      many fast moving, polluting cars. The appeal of streets free of
      autos, that would let me bicycle is great. In fact, half of my ride,
      3 miles, is along the Interurban Trail, a bikeway -- the difference
      between the 3 miles in road traffic and 3 miles on the bikeway is
      immense. I would want, of course, to only travel on roads built
      purely for bicycles.

      But, this is where the contrarian in me rises up. The book talks a
      lot about the recent arrival of cars...the last hundred years, and how
      cities were inundated with them.

      Well, couldn't you say the opposite...that our cities are build in
      outdated patterns and using pre-car technologies. Could you not also
      say that the reason for all these problems is that the cities were not
      designed during the car era -- and what is more, our urban planners
      and designers have not lived with cars long enough to know how to
      build a really car oriented city?
    • Richard Risemberg
      On Aug 15, 2007, at 1:18 AM, manfrommars_43 wrote:I m halfway through the book and am fascinated by it all. As a ... Los Angeles achieved its major growth well
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 15, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        On Aug 15, 2007, at 1:18 AM, manfrommars_43 wrote:I'm halfway through
        the book and am fascinated by it all. As a
        >
        > But, this is where the contrarian in me rises up. The book talks a
        > lot about the recent arrival of cars...the last hundred years, and how
        > cities were inundated with them.
        >
        > Well, couldn't you say the opposite...that our cities are build in
        > outdated patterns and using pre-car technologies. Could you not also
        > say that the reason for all these problems is that the cities were not
        > designed during the car era -- and what is more, our urban planners
        > and designers have not lived with cars long enough to know how to
        > build a really car oriented city?
        >

        Los Angeles achieved its major growth well after the automobile,
        likewise Phoenix and many other western US cities, all of which have
        horrendous problems relate4d to autocentric design that still doesn't
        accommodate all the cars necessitated by autocentric design.



        All present-day suburban areas grew around autocentric patterns, and
        fail because of autocentric patterns. Greater Atlanta, et al.

        We've tried designing cities around car use. Doesn't work.



        Rick

        --
        Richard Risemberg
        http://www.bicyclefixation.com
        http://www.newcolonist.com
        http://www.rickrise.com
      • Jym Dyer
        ... =v= I wouldn t call that contrarian at all; that s been the attitude fueling land-use patterns and policies since WWII. We have half a decade of experience
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 15, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          > Well, couldn't you say the opposite...that our cities are
          > build in outdated patterns and using pre-car technologies.

          =v= I wouldn't call that contrarian at all; that's been the
          attitude fueling land-use patterns and policies since WWII.
          We have half a decade of experience with it at this point, and
          have found that it's not everything it was cracked up to be.
          <_Jym_>
        • doug@sfbackstory.com
          As Jym and Rick have pointed out, we have been experimenting with autocentric design for rather a long time in the US -- between 60 and 90 years, depending
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 15, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            As Jym and Rick have pointed out, we have been experimenting with autocentric design for rather a long time in the US -- between 60 and 90 years, depending upon the observational parameters one wishes to adopt. This era has produced not one, single, livable, sustainable city or district. Not one.

            What's more, autocentrism hasn't even been able to make our cities work for *cars* -- let alone people. For many years, now, some of us have been challenging the Pave-the-World Federation to show us *one* urban road-building or -widening project that has resulted in long-term congestion relief. Hasn't happened.

            I'm pretty confident that the results of the experiment are in, and are conclusive: cars and cities are incompatible. Been there, done that, got the greasy t-shirt.

            -Doug

            ************************
            Could you not also
            say that the reason for all these problems is that the cities were not
            designed during the car era -- and what is more, our urban planners
            and designers have not lived with cars long enough to know how to
            build a really car oriented city?
          • Ryan Lanyon
            Further on that - it didn t take long to successfully design cities around the streetcar in a somewhat sustainable and manageable way in the late 19th and
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 15, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Further on that - it didn't take long to successfully design cities around the streetcar in a somewhat sustainable and manageable way in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries.

              -RL

              >>> doug@... 08/15/2007 1:03 PM >>>

              As Jym and Rick have pointed out, we have been experimenting with autocentric design for rather a long time in the US -- between 60 and 90 years, depending upon the observational parameters one wishes to adopt. This era has produced not one, single, livable, sustainable city or district. Not one.

              What's more, autocentrism hasn't even been able to make our cities work for *cars* -- let alone people. For many years, now, some of us have been challenging the Pave-the-World Federation to show us *one* urban road-building or -widening project that has resulted in long-term congestion relief. Hasn't happened.

              I'm pretty confident that the results of the experiment are in, and are conclusive: cars and cities are incompatible. Been there, done that, got the greasy t-shirt.

              -Doug

              ************************
              Could you not also
              say that the reason for all these problems is that the cities were not
              designed during the car era -- and what is more, our urban planners
              and designers have not lived with cars long enough to know how to
              build a really car oriented city?








              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • dubluth
              ... Cities not car oriented? In the US, planners did a great deal to force urban areas to accomodate cars. What functions would a more car oriented city
              Message 6 of 6 , Aug 17, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com, "manfrommars_43" <jabailo@...>
                wrote:
                >

                > Could you not also say that the reason for all
                > these problems is that the cities were not
                > designed during the car era -- and what is more,
                > our urban planners and designers have not lived
                > with cars long enough to know how to build a
                > really car oriented city?
                >

                Cities not car oriented? In the US, planners did a great deal to
                force urban areas to accomodate cars. What functions would a more car
                oriented city serve?
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.