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Re: [carfree_network] The Chicken-and-egg issues of sprawl; the high price of living in the centre...: Land Trusts!!

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  • Colin Leath
    Here s the approach I m looking into: Land needs to be held in trust, by an organization with an earth care ethic--and removed from the endless growth
    Message 1 of 1 , Jan 12, 2007
      Here's the approach I'm looking into:
      Land needs to be held in trust, by an organization with an earth care
      ethic--and removed from the endless growth economy/speculation.
      see my post at:

      See also _Permaculture: A Designer's Manual_ by Bill Mollison, Chapter
      14: Strategies for an Alternative Nation.

      Right now, In San Diego, the activists and progressives are doing a
      lot to make the city a better place to live.

      Who benefits financially? Those who "own" land--Most of the activists
      are renting.

      This is an important question.

      http://j9k.org/pc TJ/SD permaculture gathering

      2007/1/12, Todd Edelman <edelman@...>:
      > Hi,
      > Recently I think the following was posted on the Carfree Network list:
      > Urban growth and cars: Chicken-and-egg issue
      > By Elisabeth Rosenthal
      > Full story:
      > <http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/11/business/cars.php?page=1>
      > Carlos Pardo <carlos.pardo@...> reposted it on the Sustran list and
      > commented:
      > "Its funny how it seems that people cant choose to live inside the cities"
      > and I replied:
      > "THE insides of cities in many cities in Europe are generally really
      > expensive right now. This is a complicated problem directly related to all
      > our sprawl and mobility discussions but I dont see enough discussion about
      > it, never mind solutions."
      > To which Lee Schipper <SCHIPPER@...> said:
      > "Six years ago I raised this issue to the UITP guy selling the Millennium
      > data base... why was there nothing about housing and land costs/rents
      > etc. The insides of most Asian and L American cities are also expensive in
      > the central, most desirable areas.
      > The UITP answer was that this was a fiduciary problem, almost a fiction.
      > In fact it is what drives sprawl. Land farther out is cheaper. Homes are
      > larger. And in the densest of cities, living space is less than in the
      > less dense cities. The World Bank's "Sustainable Transport" from 1996
      > takes the Newman And Kenworthy data (which morphed into the Millennium
      > data base) and looks at gasoline per capita vs housing space per capita,
      > and voila.. those living in the cities with the highest NK "gasoline per
      > capita" have the highest home area per capita and by implication from N
      > and K the lowest population densities.
      > Yet look at all the environmentalist generated blather on sprawl and you
      > never see housing costs; how much more does it cost to live 100 m from a
      > metro vs 1 km away? We hear about which people spend the most or least
      > on transport, but not how much the same people spend on housing, yet we
      > know that housing cost may be a more sensitive function of location than
      > distance travelled.
      > I am writing this from a hotel in Tokyo close to the center and some of
      > the most expensive land in the world. And the Tokyo city residents who
      > live near in without a car have less space/capita to live in than those in
      > the rest of japan or even in the outer suburbs of Tokyo
      > So in discussing sprawl, lets talk about what could be the main driving
      > force, desire for living space. And let's remember in the US case tax
      > deductions let us deduct all our mortgage interest from the home loan, in
      > contrast to (more compact) Canada. Kinda makes you wonder whether in all
      > of the studies of km we should have been studying square meters of home
      > instead?"
      > ***
      > SOME thoughts:
      > * More internalisation of the costs of transport will make living in the
      > suburbs even more expensive relative to living in the centre, and it will
      > effect construction costs, depending on where the materials and machines
      > are coming from.
      > * I propose that the green mobility people start talking about
      > densification and the densification people start talking about its
      > unintended effects :-)
      > Seriously, this issue IS rarely mentioned, BUT sometime in the past six
      > months or so someone on the Carfree Cities list mentioned they were
      > working on it or familiar with some particular parts of it, and Joel
      > Crawford recognized that the issue was important and asked for info...
      > What became of that?
      > Is there more research and real examples which people can share?
      > On one hand it seems densification could lower prices as it will add
      > housing units, but on the other it would make the neighbourhood more
      > desirable (e.g. for self-selecting home-seekers, who are prepared to live
      > in less space and carfree) which would counter that.
      > Clearly, there are some "little piggy" issues here, as with getting people
      > out of their cars: We spend lots of energy on creating alternatives to
      > cars (and motorised two wheelers), and not enough on holistic and
      > sustainable reasons why people should sacrifice (of course for many people
      > the sacrifice is an illusion: it is only relative to their current overuse
      > or resources) and simply be more responsible, i.e. lowering their
      > ecological footprint to a reasonable level).
      > So, this means people have to live in smaller homes, not just bigger homes
      > for the same price further away. There are discounted loan programmes in
      > some places for people that liver near transit hubs, and that may be a
      > good start but it is certainly not enough, as the evidence shows.
      > I would really like this issue to be a central theme of among other things
      > the Towards Carfree Cities events in 2007 in Istanbul and 2008 in
      > Portland, Oregon OR San Luis Potosi, Mexico. This means lots of outreach
      > to urban planning and spatial planning specialists, and advisers to and
      > people from public and even private housing loan entities, architects, and
      > so on. Clearly we wont get too many people to help with this issue from
      > UITP and other parts of the Green Mobility Mob, but of course they also
      > have to participate. I spoke to middle-level person at UITP in the past
      > year about this issue, and I think they are at least sensitive to it and
      > possibly willing to listen, but they - and other large organisations -
      > dont recruit staff who specialise in the issue... so we cant expect too
      > much until our great arguments persuade them to expand their focus.
      > T
      > ------------------------------------------------------
      > Todd Edelman
      > Director
      > Green Idea Factory
      > Korunní 72
      > CZ-10100 Praha 10
      > Czech Republic
      > ++420 605 915 970
      > Skype: toddedelman
      > edelman@...
      > http://www.worldcarfree.net/onthetrain
      > Green Idea Factory,
      > a member of World Carfree Network
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