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Re: BRT courses in Yogyakarta BAQ 2006

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  • chbuckeye
    ... I agree, those arguments were made here in Cleveland, which is currently building a BRT line. ... Cleveland once had an extensive trolley network. Some of
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 5, 2006
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      --- In carfree_cities@yahoogroups.com, Jym Dyer <jym@...> wrote:
      > =v= Here in the United States, BRT serves to usurp LRT. Indeed,
      > its very name is an attempt to convince people that they can
      > have the benefits of LRT with a bus system. (This is only true
      > if you pretend that the many benefits of rail don't exist.)

      I agree, those arguments were made here in Cleveland, which is
      currently building a BRT line.

      > All BRT "success stories" in the U.S. involve BRT running on
      > former LRT routes.

      Cleveland once had an extensive trolley network. Some of the trolley
      rails were recently uncovered (and discarded) during reconstruction of
      Euclid Avenue as part of the BRT project. Buses are expected to be
      running in 2008 or 2009. Whether it will be a success or not remains
      to be seen, but are trolleys "light rail"?

      Cleveland has a few light rail lines that have been around for up to
      seventy-five years, but the network has not been expanded and does not
      even cover the core of the city. Meanwhile the "city" has expanded
      exponentially over the years, simultaneously increasing and diluting
      the population.

      Despite pleas from advocates of light rail in Cleveland, BRT was
      adopted as a less expensive alternative. It will be interesting to
      see what the local sentiment is in 2010, after a year or two of operation.
    • Todd Edelman
      Some interesting words for the City Philosopher of Almere, the new town near Amsterdam:
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 5, 2006
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        Some interesting words for the City Philosopher of Almere, the "new town"
        near Amsterdam:

        http://www.erasmuspc.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=211&Itemid=77

        I actually was Wiki-ing and Goggle-ing Almere about their underground
        waste disposal system
        <http://www.envac.net/docs/projects/383_Almere_ENG.webb.pdf> and ran into
        that article.

        Golly, in a few newly developing parts of Prague they could use that
        system together with trains for collection and part or all of the
        processing for trash and recycling...

        - T

        ------------------------------------------------------

        Todd Edelman
        Director
        Green Idea Factory

        Korunní 72
        CZ-10100 Praha 10
        Czech Republic

        ++420 605 915 970
        Skype: toddedelman

        edelman@...
        http://www.worldcarfree.net/onthetrain

        Green Idea Factory,
        a member of World Carfree Network
      • Jym Dyer
        ... =v= Yes. Though they predate the phrase, they exemplify it. ... =v= Yes, that s always the argument. However, it s only less expensive in the short
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 5, 2006
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          > ... are trolleys "light rail"?

          =v= Yes. Though they predate the phrase, they exemplify it.

          > Despite pleas from advocates of light rail in Cleveland, BRT
          > was adopted as a less expensive alternative.

          =v= Yes, that's always the argument. However, it's only "less
          expensive" in the short term, because buses require more fuel,
          more maintenance, and more space on the road. They also damage
          roads, but that cost is generally in a different accounting
          ledger and is thus often ignored as a cost of BRT. Even so,
          in the long herm a city budget finds itself facing all these
          higher costs of "less expensive" BRT.

          =v= There are of course higher environmental and health costs,
          but the ledgers those show up on are so often never connected
          to their sources. LRT also has the effect of attracting
          economic development along its corridors, something BRT has
          yet to demonstrate (though it does enjoy those benefits to
          some degree when it usurps an LRT corridor).

          =v= Penny-wise and pound foolish.
          <_Jym_>
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