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Re: [carfree_cities] St. Louis "Most Dangerous City"

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  • Robert Madison
    ... Unfortunately, at least in the US, I don t think that correlation would be favorable to us. The areas with the least crime tend to be the low-density,
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 31, 2006
      on 2006-Oct-30 15:05 Todd Edelman said the following:
      > Still, I wonder about the corralation between carcities and crime... any
      > thoughts?
      >

      Unfortunately, at least in the US, I don't think that correlation would
      be favorable to us. The areas with the least crime tend to be the
      low-density, heavily car-dependent suburbs. But that's really more a
      matter of demographics than anything else (i.e. crime tends to thrive in
      areas of concentrated poverty, which one would not find in suburbs).

      --
      Robert Madison
      Chicago, IL

      http://community.webshots.com/user/rmadisonwi
      This message was composed using Mozilla Thunderbird

      I should put you away where you can't kill or maim us, but this is LA and you're rich and FAMOUS
    • Richard Risemberg
      ... However, there s a well-established though little-publicized connection between car-dependent suburbs and violent death, which we can play up. I don t have
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 31, 2006
        On Oct 31, 2006, at 5:54 AM, Robert Madison wrote:

        > on 2006-Oct-30 15:05 Todd Edelman said the following:
        >> Still, I wonder about the corralation between carcities and
        >> crime... any
        >> thoughts?
        >>
        >
        > Unfortunately, at least in the US, I don't think that correlation
        > would
        > be favorable to us. The areas with the least crime tend to be the
        > low-density, heavily car-dependent suburbs. But that's really more a
        > matter of demographics than anything else (i.e. crime tends to
        > thrive in
        > areas of concentrated poverty, which one would not find in suburbs).
        However, there's a well-established though little-publicized
        connection between car-dependent suburbs and violent death, which we
        can play up.

        I don't have time to dig up the references again (someone here can, I
        hope), but the death rate for 15-25 year olds is higher per capita in
        the suburbs than in the inner city, because of automobile accidents.

        Tangentially related: one often hears people who've just gotten a
        traffic ticket complain, "Why aren't the cops out catching real
        criminals?"

        I checked the numbers a couple of years ago: in the US, the most
        violent Western democracy, about 5,000 people a year are murdered.
        Of these, a little over half are killed by family members or friends--
        in other words, police presence cannot prevent these murders.
        Murders committed by strangers or in the course of other criminal
        activity are in the minority by a little bit, so let's just say about
        2500 a year.

        But bad drivers kill 47,000 innocents a year.

        This doesn't even count maimings, burns, and healable injuries.

        So really, the police would do better to take officers off murder
        beats and put them on motorcycles catching more bad drivers, who kill
        more good people.

        Rick
        --
        Richard Risemberg
        http://www.rickrise.com
        http://www.bicyclefixation.com
        http://www.newcolonist.com
      • Todd Edelman
        Hi! This is related to a discussion a few weeks back about new car-dependent eco-suburbs and how to best save energy/lower emissions (by greener transport,
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 1, 2006
          Hi!

          This is related to a discussion a few weeks back about new car-dependent
          "eco-suburbs" and how to best save energy/lower emissions (by greener
          transport, etc...).

          Perhaps this is entirely obvious and/or has been written about in other
          ways, but, having lived without a refrigerator for the last month
          (planning to get a pricey, efficient one) it has become more clear to me
          how much in Western cities the length of a shopping trip can affect the
          size of a fridge.

          I have heard that a fridge is the biggest single user of electricity in a
          typical American house. I have no fridge now so I shop a few times a day,
          and fortunately good shops are steps away. BUT in "car-dependent suburbs"
          there is the ever-present "big shopping", which many people have to or
          feel they have to do in order to make the long trip worthwhile.

          So, they use lots of energy (transport) it seems to get the stuff they
          need, and then more energy to preserve it with a big fridge (and freezer)
          until the next trip. Also with a bigger car they can fill a bigger
          fridge...
          of course this forms a circle.

          I realise that lots of little stores also use lots of little (relative to
          supermarkets) fridges and freezers.

          Any thoughts? Studies? Anecdotes?

          Todd, in Prague, equidistant between a good small store and the pear and
          walnut trees in the backyard....

          ------------------------------------------------------

          Todd Edelman
          Director
          Green Idea Factory

          ++420 605 915 970

          edelman@...
          http://www.worldcarfree.net/onthetrain

          Green Idea Factory,
          a member of World Carfree Network
        • Greg Steele
          given that poverty = more violence In a post peak oil economy, car dependent areas will be more economically depressed that the urban areas of the East and
          Message 4 of 5 , Nov 2, 2006
            given that poverty = more violence

            In a post peak oil economy, car dependent areas will be more
            economically depressed that the urban areas of the East and West
            Coasts of the US.

            Therefore, I expect to see violence increase throughout the US in the
            near future with a disproportionate level of violence in the Mid-West
            and Southeast.
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