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8635Re: [carfree_cities] Cost per mile of Road, vs Rail

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  • Thomas C
    Jun 10, 2005
      sorry, i thought the goal of this discussion list was to change "the
      way it's done"... ;)

      based on a couple cases i could find quickly on the web (about trams
      in france), rolling stocks seem to account for 20% of the costs.
      the infrastructures seemed like expensive ones however (tunnel in one
      case, paris in the other...)

      On 6/10/05, J.H. Crawford <mailbox@...> wrote:
      >
      > There's great logic in what you say, but including the rolling
      > stock in rail projects is "the way it's done." This is NOT a
      > level playing field, nor is it intended to be.
      >
      > >why would you include rolling stock and stations in the cost of rail
      > >infrastructures? do you also include cars and gas stations in road
      > >infrastructure?
      > >
      > >On 6/10/05, Lloyd Wright <LFWright@...> wrote:
      > >> I have been collecting some of this data directly from municipalities for a
      > >> new public transport book. I do find there is a great deal of distortion of
      > >> figures. Many times officials are embarrassed by cost over-runs, and thus
      > >the
      > >> numbers given in the press are frequently under-representations. I have been
      > >> contacting project developers directly to get closer to actual costs.
      > >>
      > >> Rail figures can be fudged a bit by excluding rolling stock, fare
      > >> instrastructure, stations, and land costs. For example, I quizzed San Diego
      > >> staff over the low figure given for the trolley, which in reality was around
      > >> US$ 15 million per km. The newer additions to the San Diego system over
      > >> double this. It is interesting to note that second phases of projects are
      > >> usually significantly higher due to the high costs of transfer stations.
      > >>
      > >> There is also a big difference between developed countries and developing
      > >> countries. A highway underpass built in Quito (Ecuador) last year cost US$ 1
      > >> million. The same infrastructure in Europe or North America would be
      > >about 20
      > >> times that number.
      > >>
      > >> Likewise, tram systems in developing countries can legitimately be in the
      > >area
      > >> of US$ 12 million per kilometre (Tunis) and most BRT systems are being
      > >> developed for between US$ 1 million and US$ 5 million per kilometre (Quito,
      > >> Curitiba, Goiania, Sao Paulo, Jakarta, Taipei, Beijing, Dar es Salaam). LRT
      > >> in developed nations is running these days from about US$ 18 million per
      > >> kilometre (Lyon) to about US$ 40 million per kilometre (LA Gold Line).
      > >>
      > >> Elevated rail is generally in the range of US$ 45 million per kilometre
      > >(Kuala
      > >> Lumpur PUTRA) to US$ 75 million per kilometre (Bangkok Skytrain). The
      > >> Shanghai maglev is an outlier for technology reasons at about US$ 320 million
      > >> per km.
      > >>
      > >> The lowest cost underground systems were Mexico City and Madrid (both in the
      > >> range of US$ 45 million per km). Madrid's underground is really a remarkable
      > >> story from the standpoint of cost management. Of course, the soft clay
      > >> underneath Madrid also played a role. At the higher end of underground
      > >> development is Washington (over US$ 200 million per km), Hong Kong (US$ 222
      > >> million per km), and London's Jubilee Line (US$ 350 million per km).
      > >>
      > >> Best regards,
      > >>
      > >> Lloyd
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
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      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > >
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      > >
      >
      >
      > ------ ### -----
      > J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
      > mailbox@... http://www.carfree.com
      >
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