8451Re: [carfree_cities] Re: 20mph/30kph minimum
- May 5, 2005Stefan and Chris and all,
I didnt mean to imply that you could do Tempo 30
without traffic calming devices like the ones you
ISA and NEVs.... Chris?
Help us out, brother, what do those stand for?
--- Stefan Langeveld <blw@...> wrote:
> your wife made a crucial point. For all nowadays
> cars, 30 km/h is
> darn slow. So, even in those 30 km/h zones , 85% of
> cars go above
> limit (research by road safety NGO), in spite of
> speed humps; they
> slow a car 'during' 15 meters or so.
> Cities will implement such zones (getting grants for
> this purpose),
> but will not evaluate effects.
> Converting to Tempo 30 streets, with or without
> signs, humps,
> campaign is clearly not enough.
> 30 is an appropiate speed in built up areas, but
> even without
> touching the accelerator, cars will go faster.
> There are these remedies
> 1. ISA
> 2. Lane narrowing and/or meandering.
> 3. NEVs (& various cycles of course), for inner
> city trips. In
> those, 30 km/h is a proper speed.
> Still not sure which is best. Both cost a lot (in
> time-to-achieve and
> money, although one can achieve a lot with (2:)
> strategic placement
> of blocks or cones that make a lane 2.0 m wide,
> before crossroads and
> highspeed stretches).
> --- In email@example.com, Todd Edelman
> <traintowardsthefuture@y...> wrote:
> > In a follow-up to my earlier message, my wife (the
> > driver in the
> > house) informed me that 20mph is about the slowest
> > can drive for
> > extended periods. Does anyone else have anecdotal
> > evidence to support
> > that? I know it's the wrong list to ask, but
> > there are a few
> > recovered drivers out there. ;)
> > Cheers,
> > ~chris
> > Todd: 20mph or 30kph (30km) is the standard MAX.
> > operating speed for a growing number of built up
> > in European towns.
> > Here is some info if you are new to this:
> > "Tempo 30" campaign from VCD in Germany (in
> > use Babelfish or other translator):
> > www.vcd.org
> > click on "kampagnen" at top,
> > click on "Mehr Tempo 30" down the page...
> > VCD is the alternative mobility assoc. in Germany
> > ADAC and includes trains, bikes, even walking as
> > of full hearty German offering of mobility.
> > +
> > "Cycling: The way ahead" at
> > see pages 35 to 36 starting with "Combining safety
> > measures" and including very excellent graphs
> > you should convert into mph as necessary for your
> > purposes! No permission necessary, just polite
> > of source.
> > --
> > I once did a 30kph test with a friend in Prague in
> > neighborhood. On level streets where speed limit
> > normally 50kph 30 seemed slow (darn!) but problem
> > going up a long hill, where car "didnt like" going
> > 30kph due to transmission ratios - it was revving
> > high for 2nd gear... but 3rd would be a problem
> > This is for a manual transmission of course, which
> > almost all European cars have as standard.
> > I dont understand the problem with anything under
> > 20/30 being a problem on level surfaces and
> > transmissions. Probably American or all automobile
> > engineers dont really think anyone wants to go
> > slow except in the parking lot, drive thru, or
> > automatic car wash, so they optimise throttle for
> > higher speeds.?
> > I just thought of a idea related to this, but to
> > out more you are gonna have to contact me
> > Hint: Cruise control.
> > Todd, World Recovered Drivers Net(foot)work
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