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4701RE: [carfree_cities] RE: Plateau Mont-Royal

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  • powerwalker
    May 6, 2002
      > >> Those living in the area who are now dependent on cars for
      > >> getting to work are going to resist this change strenuously. Solutions
      > >> will have to be found for them, which will entail either providing good
      > >> public transport alternatives or findng a parking place for them on
      > >> the edge of the carfree area.
      > >>
      > >Yes. Improving public transport is always the solution. We
      > should implement
      > >more trams/buses to ensure a fast link to the metro, hence a fast link to
      > >the underground network. Once you enter the metro, you don't face bad
      > >weather until you pop out at your destination station. Or better, if your
      > >workplace or school is linked to the Underground Network, then
      > you don't see
      > >bad weather until you're back out of the metro after the day.
      > Can you post a map of the area, with existing metro and tram (?) routes,
      > as well as the distance and direction to the park & downtown?
      I'll see what I can find. Grossly, it's between metro
      stations Berri-UQAM and Jean-Talon on the Orange line.
      The STM (Montreal Transport Society) site is www.stm.info. The suburban
      train Montreal/Deux-Montagnes (the one that stops in TMR) passes under the
      Mount-Royal in a tunnel. I imagine adding a station in the tunnel, with a
      stairway up into the park! That would make a link from Underground downtown
      into the nature...

      > >A solution would be to put more year-round bike parking (for hard core
      > >cyclists), and locker facilities for skis (or skates,
      > scooters...) at the
      > >concerned metro stations. Once cars are gone, snow could be
      > removed on only
      > >half of the street (reduce snow removal costs) to allow wheeled
      > devices to
      > >travel and easy walking, and the other half could keep its natural snow
      > >cover to allow skiing (faster than walking) as a transportation mode.
      > There's a problem where the streets cross, in that a 3-4 meter wide
      > strip of bare asphalt would have to be crossed on skis ever block.
      > But it's a reasonable suggestion, I think. Perhaps short strips of
      > Astroturf would allow both skiers and pedestrians to cross.

      > >Another solution could be to build a couple more metro stations, and/or
      > >extending the underground tentacles of existing ones. The ones
      > near Plateau
      > >only have one or two exits, so they could be improved with
      > several tunnels
      > >running several blocks, like the ones downtown, hence reducing necessary
      > >outdoor walking.
      > Perhaps, although these tunnels, if they are to be equipped with stores,
      > require a lot of foot traffic to support. I'm not saying that enough
      > foot traffic wouldn't be available, but it has to be considered.
      Ah. I thought more about bare tunnels first, then with time spaces along
      could be rented for stores where there is enough foot traffic. Two sources
      of revenus (with taxes) to the city Council: one at surface, and one

      I know some businesses opened up in some downtown tunnels which were bare
      several years ago. Downtown, some shops stay a year or two, they move
      elsewhere and leave the place for a new one, etc....

      > >If we can get people to walk no more than 5 minutes outdoor (at
      > worst 10?)
      > >to the nearest metro entrance, then the problem would be
      > somewhat handled.
      > What I don't recall from my time in Montreal is how windy it is in
      > the depths of the winter. I seem to recall that temperatures of
      > -20 C are common and that it gets even colder. If it's windy, then
      > walking 10 minutes or more outdoors can really be a problem.
      Yes, it often windy, sometimes the temperature gets to -20 or colder, but
      the occurence have been more scarce in the past few years. 10 minutes is my
      walk for home to train, but I know not everyone is willing to do this in bad
      weather. So we still have the tram/bus solution for these cases, with heated

      > >And turn another ugly wide fast artery in the periphery into a
      > parking strip
      > >for residents and visitors?
      > This is a really tough issue, in fact. It will be almost impossible
      > to see the carfree plan if you FORCE everybody to give up the car.
      No. I meant there car parking for residents and visitors. I envisioned
      turning a 6-fast-lane artery into, maybe 1 lane in each direction, and
      perpendicular parkings on each side (twice more parking than "standard"
      parallel street parking). I don't know if it's a good idea, as there might
      be some conflicts between traffic on the lane and people getting in or out a
      parking space.

      > I think some provision will have to be made for residents to own
      > cars and keep them at the edge of the carfree area.
      The above facility would be at the edge, or between two major carfree

      This could bd
      > done in a way that made it very expensive, so as to discourage that
      > and maybe encourge a modest amount of carsharing, but I don't see
      > it as being possible any other way. This doesn't necessarily mean
      > more street traffic and parking in the surrounding areas than now
      > exists. If you give residents in the adjacent areas exclusive
      > rights to use available street parking (by way of stickers), and
      > provide only multi-level underground garages (with steep rental
      > rates) for residents of the carfree area, then you've pretty well
      > handled the problem. Traffic should be down, not up, since there
      > will be fewer people driving to and from the area than now.

      > >Good ideas. Maybe, in each direction, one lane for a train, one for cars
      > >with the access charge, and one
      > >for cycling and/or buses...
      > The issue of commuters to downtown using Parc will require very
      > serious attention. I don't know that we have a solution yet.
      I know this one is difficult, but if some places become totally carfree next
      to it, then people will see the contrast in environment. Thus more residents
      will require reduction in the traffic flow on Parc Avenue.

      > >Since our mayor showed up in favor of reducing car use,
      > Montrealers on this
      > >list could gather and present such a project to him and brainstorm about
      > >solutions.
      > >Or better: inform the residents about this possibility.
      > Start with local groups, I think. Keep the mayor's office informed
      > as soon as you have 100 members or so, but don't look for much
      > help from there until the movement is large (although you might
      > be pleasantly surprised).
      > Regards,
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