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4695Re: [carfree_cities] RE: Plateau Mont-Royal

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  • J.H. Crawford
    May 5, 2002
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      Louis-Luc replied:

      >Yes. I know Town of Mount Royal, which is also a nice
      >place to live carfree, but it's not the same as
      >Plateau Mont-Royal neighbourhoods. Anyways, both are
      >not that far from each other and neighbourhoods near
      >the train station where you mention could also become carfree. I think it
      >would be a bit harder though since it's less dense than Plateau.
      >The best thing to do is to convert the easiest places first, and then expand

      Sorry, I didn't mean to nominate Town of Mount Royal for carfree
      status--the plateau sounds much better (although TMR is a reasonable
      candidate for the future).

      >As it is presently, lineups build up at the front door of "Apartment For
      >Rent" signs, and it's the worst place to choose if you are car-dependant.
      >This means places where you can easily live carfree are in demand. Imagine
      >what will happen should these neighbourhoods become carfree.

      If the change become permanent, it would probably be possible to
      build new housing in the middle of the streets.

      >> Those living in the area who are now dependent on cars for
      >> getting to work are going to resist this change strenuously. Solutions
      >> will have to be found for them, which will entail either providing good
      >> public transport alternatives or findng a parking place for them on
      >> the edge of the carfree area.
      >Yes. Improving public transport is always the solution. We should implement
      >more trams/buses to ensure a fast link to the metro, hence a fast link to
      >the underground network. Once you enter the metro, you don't face bad
      >weather until you pop out at your destination station. Or better, if your
      >workplace or school is linked to the Underground Network, then you don't see
      >bad weather until you're back out of the metro after the day.

      Can you post a map of the area, with existing metro and tram (?) routes,
      as well as the distance and direction to the park & downtown?

      >A solution would be to put more year-round bike parking (for hard core
      >cyclists), and locker facilities for skis (or skates, scooters...) at the
      >concerned metro stations. Once cars are gone, snow could be removed on only
      >half of the street (reduce snow removal costs) to allow wheeled devices to
      >travel and easy walking, and the other half could keep its natural snow
      >cover to allow skiing (faster than walking) as a transportation mode.

      There's a problem where the streets cross, in that a 3-4 meter wide
      strip of bare asphalt would have to be crossed on skis ever block.
      But it's a reasonable suggestion, I think. Perhaps short strips of
      Astroturf would allow both skiers and pedestrians to cross.

      >Another solution could be to build a couple more metro stations, and/or
      >extending the underground tentacles of existing ones. The ones near Plateau
      >only have one or two exits, so they could be improved with several tunnels
      >running several blocks, like the ones downtown, hence reducing necessary
      >outdoor walking.

      Perhaps, although these tunnels, if they are to be equipped with stores,
      require a lot of foot traffic to support. I'm not saying that enough
      foot traffic wouldn't be available, but it has to be considered.

      >If we can get people to walk no more than 5 minutes outdoor (at worst 10?)
      >to the nearest metro entrance, then the problem would be somewhat handled.

      What I don't recall from my time in Montreal is how windy it is in
      the depths of the winter. I seem to recall that temperatures of
      -20 C are common and that it gets even colder. If it's windy, then
      walking 10 minutes or more outdoors can really be a problem.

      >And turn another ugly wide fast artery in the periphery into a parking strip
      >for residents and visitors?

      This is a really tough issue, in fact. It will be almost impossible
      to see the carfree plan if you FORCE everybody to give up the car.
      I think some provision will have to be made for residents to own
      cars and keep them at the edge of the carfree area. This could bd
      done in a way that made it very expensive, so as to discourage that
      and maybe encourge a modest amount of carsharing, but I don't see
      it as being possible any other way. This doesn't necessarily mean
      more street traffic and parking in the surrounding areas than now
      exists. If you give residents in the adjacent areas exclusive
      rights to use available street parking (by way of stickers), and
      provide only multi-level underground garages (with steep rental
      rates) for residents of the carfree area, then you've pretty well
      handled the problem. Traffic should be down, not up, since there
      will be fewer people driving to and from the area than now.

      >Good ideas. Maybe, in each direction, one lane for a train, one for cars
      >with the access charge, and one
      >for cycling and/or buses...

      The issue of commuters to downtown using Parc will require very
      serious attention. I don't know that we have a solution yet.

      >Since our mayor showed up in favor of reducing car use, Montrealers on this
      >list could gather and present such a project to him and brainstorm about
      >Or better: inform the residents about this possibility.

      Start with local groups, I think. Keep the mayor's office informed
      as soon as you have 100 members or so, but don't look for much
      help from there until the movement is large (although you might
      be pleasantly surprised).


      -- ### --

      J.H. Crawford Carfree Cities
      mailbox@... Carfree.com
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