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SS City of Milwaukee/Elberta

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  • Sscitymilw@xxx.xxx
    Hi all: Elberta has begun demolition of the brick and freighthouse extensions of the lifesaving station in preparation for moving the building. Local
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 2, 1999
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      Hi all:

      Elberta has begun demolition of the brick and freighthouse extensions of the
      lifesaving station in preparation for moving the building. Local
      preservationists were discussing the issue locally and in Lansing, since it
      appears the 106 process was blatantly disregarded once again. Barring a
      legal stalemate, the boat will be moved by mid-November.

      If the boat leaves, the 106 process will have to (or should I say-should) be
      followed prior to departure. Coast Guard approval would also be needed for
      the tow. Projects at that time would include raising anchors, releasing
      mooring lines, raising the sea gate and relocating 5 box cars and 1 flat car
      onto the car deck. After that, it's hard telling how long it would take to
      reach the new destination (weather permitting).

      If the boat goes to Mackinaw City, officials of the Great Lakes Lighthouse
      Museum said that SPCM members would be given a 1 year membership in the
      organization. Tow volunteers may also be given a chance to ride the City of
      Milwaukee during the tow (Coast Guard permitting). Ideally, they would like
      to see the ship go to Bayship for sandblasting and necessary hull/deck
      maintenance. The GLLM doesn't have a website at this time, but congratulated
      the SPCM on the design of the carferry.com site. The GLLM also said SPCM
      volunteers are also welcome to continue working on the boat if it moves to
      Mackinaw City. One unanswered question was whether the boat would continue
      in AA Colors, become neutral, or return to GT paint. If anyone would like
      information about the Lighthouse Museum, please call 231-436-3333 or write
      Great Lakes Lighthouse Museum, P.O. Box 712, Mackinaw City, MI 49701.

      While I continue to support the efforts of those who have fought a long and
      arduous political battle, if the boat goes I can't say I'll miss Elberta too
      much.

      George P. Micka IV.
    • Aeolus3@xxx.xxx
      In a message dated 9/2/99 10:47:36 AM Central Daylight Time, Sscitymilw@aol.com writes:
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 2, 1999
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        In a message dated 9/2/99 10:47:36 AM Central Daylight Time,
        Sscitymilw@... writes:

        << While I continue to support the efforts of those who have fought a long
        and
        arduous political battle, if the boat goes I can't say I'll miss Elberta too
        much.

        George P. Micka IV.
        >>

        George,

        What is the matter with Elberta? I am in Illinois and we have some crazy
        ideas here, as the loss of the submarine SS Silversides, which I never
        understood why in Chicago it was great to have a German U Boat.... but not a
        US Navy Sub.

        Someday Elberta will morn the loss of the City! She is a beautiful boat with
        so much history behind her. I was aboard in 1979 we were given a tour by the
        crew as we waited departure. I was blown away by her interior, she is a part
        of a proud history of service on the lakes, and even though she will no
        longer be at Elberta, it sounds like she has finally found a home.

        Loren Johnson
      • bigbobs61@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
        What is the 106 process ?
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 2, 1999
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          What is the '106 process"?
        • Sscitymilw@xxx.xxx
          In a message dated 9/2/99 3:00:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bigbobs61@webtv.net writes:
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 2, 1999
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            In a message dated 9/2/99 3:00:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
            bigbobs61@... writes:

            << Subj: Re: [carferry] SS City of Milwaukee/Elberta
            Date: 9/2/99 3:00:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time
            From: bigbobs61@... (Robert Strauss)
            Reply-to: carferry@onelist.com
            To: carferry@onelist.com

            From: bigbobs61@... (Robert Strauss)

            What is the '106 process"? >>

            It's a review process mandated by Section 110 of the Historic Preservation
            Act of 1966, part 106. It's intent is that any changes made to National
            Historic Landmarks or National Historic Landmark eligible sites be given full
            review to determine the impact the changes would have on the site.
            Compliance at Elberta appears to be woefully deficient, although the proper
            state and federal agencies haven't enforced the process. Hence the problems.

            The 106 process and NHL status are the domain of the Dept. of the Interior,
            National Park Service. They delegate responsibility to the State Historic
            Preservation Officer, in Michigan Brian Conway. Mr. Conway is part of the
            State Historic Office in Lansing, Michigan (under the Secretary of State).

            George
          • Dean R. Michael
            HI my name is Michael Birdsley and in my oppion id rather see the City of Millwaukee stay in its ANN Arbor colors . and is there any chance you could just
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 2, 1999
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              HI my name is Michael Birdsley and in my oppion id rather see the City of Millwaukee stay in its ANN Arbor
              colors . and is there any chance you could just move it over Frankfort instead off mackinaw?

              sincerly
              Michael Birdsley

              Sscitymilw@... wrote:

              > From: Sscitymilw@...
              >
              > Hi all:
              >
              > Elberta has begun demolition of the brick and freighthouse extensions of the
              > lifesaving station in preparation for moving the building. Local
              > preservationists were discussing the issue locally and in Lansing, since it
              > appears the 106 process was blatantly disregarded once again. Barring a
              > legal stalemate, the boat will be moved by mid-November.
              >
              > If the boat leaves, the 106 process will have to (or should I say-should) be
              > followed prior to departure. Coast Guard approval would also be needed for
              > the tow. Projects at that time would include raising anchors, releasing
              > mooring lines, raising the sea gate and relocating 5 box cars and 1 flat car
              > onto the car deck. After that, it's hard telling how long it would take to
              > reach the new destination (weather permitting).
              >
              > If the boat goes to Mackinaw City, officials of the Great Lakes Lighthouse
              > Museum said that SPCM members would be given a 1 year membership in the
              > organization. Tow volunteers may also be given a chance to ride the City of
              > Milwaukee during the tow (Coast Guard permitting). Ideally, they would like
              > to see the ship go to Bayship for sandblasting and necessary hull/deck
              > maintenance. The GLLM doesn't have a website at this time, but congratulated
              > the SPCM on the design of the carferry.com site. The GLLM also said SPCM
              > volunteers are also welcome to continue working on the boat if it moves to
              > Mackinaw City. One unanswered question was whether the boat would continue
              > in AA Colors, become neutral, or return to GT paint. If anyone would like
              > information about the Lighthouse Museum, please call 231-436-3333 or write
              > Great Lakes Lighthouse Museum, P.O. Box 712, Mackinaw City, MI 49701.
              >
              > While I continue to support the efforts of those who have fought a long and
              > arduous political battle, if the boat goes I can't say I'll miss Elberta too
              > much.
              >
              > George P. Micka IV.
              >
              > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
              >
              > Start a new ONElist list & you can WIN great prizes!
              > For details on ONElist's NEW FRIENDS & FAMILY program, go to
              > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/Teaser111 ">Click Here</a>
              >
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > The Carferry List is sponsored in part by the Society for the Preservation of the S.S. City of Milwaukee.
            • Sscitymilw@xxx.xxx
              In a message dated 9/2/99 5:33:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dean@shianet.org writes:
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 2, 1999
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                In a message dated 9/2/99 5:33:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dean@...
                writes:

                << Subj: Re: [carferry] SS City of Milwaukee/Elberta
                Date: 9/2/99 5:33:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time
                From: dean@... (Dean R. Michael)
                Reply-to: carferry@onelist.com
                To: carferry@onelist.com

                From: "Dean R. Michael" <dean@...>

                HI my name is Michael Birdsley and in my oppion id rather see the City of
                Millwaukee stay in its ANN Arbor
                colors . and is there any chance you could just move it over Frankfort
                instead off mackinaw?

                sincerly
                Michael Birdsley >>

                The board is still trying to keep her in Betsie Bay, but at this time
                Frankfort is pretty quiet.

                Personally, I prefer either the GT wet noodle or the GRAND TRUNK LINE block
                lettering (same as the original Milwaukee had). The latter would be a little
                eery. But I'm one vote in a society of nearly 600. Not sure how many
                members in the lighthouse group, if it goes there.

                George
              • Alan Bessey
                George, I missed the first part of the story, but it sounds like the SPCM lost the battle, although in moving the battlefront the war may be won. November is a
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 2, 1999
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                  George,
                  I missed the first part of the story, but it sounds like the SPCM lost
                  the battle, although in moving the battlefront the war may be won.

                  November is a lousy time to sail. Hope it gets resolved before weather
                  becomes a real problem.

                  Thanks for the update.
                  You fought the good fight.
                  Al

                  Sscitymilw@... wrote:
                  >
                  > From: Sscitymilw@...
                  >
                  > Hi all:
                  >
                  > Elberta has begun demolition of the brick and freighthouse extensions of the
                  > lifesaving station in preparation for moving the building. Local
                  > preservationists were discussing the issue locally and in Lansing, since it
                  > appears the 106 process was blatantly disregarded once again. Barring a
                  > legal stalemate, the boat will be moved by mid-November.
                  >
                  > If the boat leaves, the 106 process will have to (or should I say-should) be
                  > followed prior to departure. Coast Guard approval would also be needed for
                  > the tow. Projects at that time would include raising anchors, releasing
                  > mooring lines, raising the sea gate and relocating 5 box cars and 1 flat car
                  > onto the car deck. After that, it's hard telling how long it would take to
                  > reach the new destination (weather permitting).
                  >
                  > If the boat goes to Mackinaw City, officials of the Great Lakes Lighthouse
                  > Museum said that SPCM members would be given a 1 year membership in the
                  > organization. Tow volunteers may also be given a chance to ride the City of
                  > Milwaukee during the tow (Coast Guard permitting). Ideally, they would like
                  > to see the ship go to Bayship for sandblasting and necessary hull/deck
                  > maintenance. The GLLM doesn't have a website at this time, but congratulated
                  > the SPCM on the design of the carferry.com site. The GLLM also said SPCM
                  > volunteers are also welcome to continue working on the boat if it moves to
                  > Mackinaw City. One unanswered question was whether the boat would continue
                  > in AA Colors, become neutral, or return to GT paint. If anyone would like
                  > information about the Lighthouse Museum, please call 231-436-3333 or write
                  > Great Lakes Lighthouse Museum, P.O. Box 712, Mackinaw City, MI 49701.
                  >
                  > While I continue to support the efforts of those who have fought a long and
                  > arduous political battle, if the boat goes I can't say I'll miss Elberta too
                  > much.
                  >
                  > George P. Micka IV.
                  >
                  > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
                  >
                  > Start a new ONElist list & you can WIN great prizes!
                  > For details on ONElist's NEW FRIENDS & FAMILY program, go to
                  > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/Teaser111 ">Click Here</a>
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > The Carferry List is sponsored in part by the Society for the Preservation of the S.S. City of Milwaukee.
                • bigbobs61@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
                  How bout keeping the stacks in AA colors and the hull painted back as she was in her GT days- complete with wet noodle? More historically acurate that way
                  Message 8 of 11 , Sep 3, 1999
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                    How 'bout keeping the stacks in AA colors and the hull painted back as
                    she was in her GT days- complete with wet noodle? More historically
                    acurate that way IMO- she only sailed 2 years for Ann Arbor.

                    If the boat does go to Mackinaw City will SPCM retain ownership? I guess
                    it's still too early to ask questions about 'what ifs' though. I think
                    Mackinaw City would be a good place to go, though the ship never sailed
                    from there. The high tourist trade there would be beneficial to the
                    boat. Don't forget, she was docked in FRAnkfort before she was moved
                    back over to Elberta. At least we know the MAckinaw City people are
                    really interested in her.
                  • Chuck Truscott
                    George, I agree with you on the GT colors for CITY OF MILWAUKEE, especially since the lion s share of her life was spent with the Grand Trunk. I m not so sure
                    Message 9 of 11 , Sep 3, 1999
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                      George,

                      I agree with you on the GT colors for CITY OF MILWAUKEE, especially since the lion's share of her life was spent with the Grand Trunk.

                      I'm not so sure about moving her to Mackinaw City, though. Doesn't the ATCo have all the slips at the old State Dock leased for passenger operations to Mackinac. I certainly wouldn't want to see her laying across the face of that dock, particularly with a strong east wind blowing. I guess, though, that she could be put in the old VACATIONLAND slip. I think that the CHIEF WAWATAM's dock there has been converted to other use.

                      Let's take an "ideal" scenario (o.k., it's a dream). Return the CITY OF MILWAUKEE to Muskegon. Move the MILWAUKEE CLIPPER to the west side of the slip that she's at now, and back the CITY OF MILWAUKEE into the slip where CLIPPER is now. What with the SILVERSIDES now being the (apparent) owner of the HIGHWAY 16 and planning to use them as a Naval Museum/Memorial, why couldn't the MILWAUKEE CLIPPER/CITY OF MILWAUKEE be tied in together in a "Cross Lake Michigan Transportation Passenger Travel Memorial. Think about it, darn few other cities in the United States have two National Historic Landmark steamers side by side. The MILWAUKEE CLIPPER stack colors (dummy stack) have already been changed to red, white, and blue, and as I seem to recall, at one point the GT boats sailed with red, white, and blue stacks as well.

                      There, have I gotten myself in enough trouble with the members of the board(s)?

                      Talk to you later,

                      Chuck
                    • Sscitymilw@aol.com
                      Chuck, Good ideas. But can you imagine the powers that be s reaction to having a ship with a wooden interior in Muskegon? I think the west side of Andrie s
                      Message 10 of 11 , Sep 3, 1999
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                        Chuck,

                        Good ideas. But can you imagine the "powers that be's" reaction to having a
                        ship with a wooden interior in Muskegon? I think the west side of Andrie's
                        dock should be kept in mind for the Clipper. May require investing in new
                        pilings. The Amoco dock would also be a good short term home if nothing more
                        suitable becomes available (and the city of Muskegon finally breaks down and
                        buys it).

                        Primary dock mentioned is the old state ferry slip (Vacationland, et. al.).
                        While City of Milwaukee never operated their, she bears a fairly close
                        resemblence to the PM 19, 20 and AA 4.

                        Grand Haven would be another good town for the City of Milwaukee, provided
                        there was a decent location available. At this time, I don't believe that is
                        the case.

                        At Elberta, I always dreamed of painting the wet noodle back on and hoisting
                        up a pirate flag. The village thinks were a bunch of renagade pirates
                        anyway. Historically speaking and in accordance with historic guidelines,
                        the GRAND TRUNK LINE would be correct one to use. We sent out a survey once
                        and didn't get too many replies though.

                        George
                      • Sscitymilw@aol.com
                        In a message dated 9/3/99 4:27:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bigbobs61@webtv.net writes:
                        Message 11 of 11 , Sep 3, 1999
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                          In a message dated 9/3/99 4:27:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                          bigbobs61@... writes:

                          << How 'bout keeping the stacks in AA colors and the hull painted back as
                          she was in her GT days- complete with wet noodle? More historically
                          acurate that way IMO- she only sailed 2 years for Ann Arbor.

                          If the boat does go to Mackinaw City will SPCM retain ownership? I guess
                          it's still too early to ask questions about 'what ifs' though. I think
                          Mackinaw City would be a good place to go, though the ship never sailed
                          from there. The high tourist trade there would be beneficial to the
                          boat. Don't forget, she was docked in FRAnkfort before she was moved
                          back over to Elberta. At least we know the MAckinaw City people are
                          really interested in her.
                          >>

                          Mackinaw City is definately interested. Hard to say on the ownership
                          issue-the board will have to determine that point. I'd like to see the SPCM
                          retain ownership and lease the boat to the Lighthouse Museum, which could
                          take over all administrative and operating functions. When the lease is up,
                          the parties could determine the future uses of the boat. Both would like to
                          see the boat restored to "operating" condition, although that could be
                          engines running while moored to the dock (depending upon what the Coast Guard
                          regs would determine).

                          The wet noodle and AA stacks would be a nice compromise. Probably see her
                          with current hull color and black stacks (ironically, the color she had while
                          operating at Elberta, after MDOT/AA took possession in 79).

                          George
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