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Re: [capri26] Looking for advice on a replacement tiller

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  • Bob White
    You just might be right. It has been at least 5 or 6 years since I bought one (I am in need of another), that I have forgotten. Thanks! From:
    Message 1 of 40 , Mar 8, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      You just might be right.  It has been at least 5 or 6 years since I bought one (I am in need of another), that I have forgotten. 
       
      Thanks!
       
      Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 8:54 PM
      Subject: Re: [capri26] Looking for advice on a replacement tiller
       
       

      The tiller I got from catalina direct had no holes. I drilled them to fit

      Sent from my iPhone

      On Mar 8, 2012, at 9:48 PM, "Bob White" <Capri26@...> wrote:

       
      I also noticed that holes at the base might not match the holes in the tillers that are for sale.  When I ordered mine from Cat. Direct, I just assumed everything would match—and it did.  I looked at the West Marine tillers and saw that the holes did NOT match. 
       
      Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 5:24 PM
      Subject: Re: [capri26] Looking for advice on a replacement tiller
       
       

      

      I cannot find the measurements I used to order my tiller, but I do remember it was 43" long.
       
      Splets
      Satin Sheets #148
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 1:45 PM
      Subject: Re: [capri26] Looking for advice on a replacement tiller
       
       
      Thanks Leighton, I actually have a J24, and the tiller not near as curved as my Capri
       
      The J and and Cat 25 both have transom hung rudders, so wouldn't the tiller be a little straighter than what we have?
       
      I think my Capri tiller may have way more rise than needed, but I am still unsure.
       
      We have 4 or 5 Capri 26's at my sailing club so I may run out to see what others have, however none of the boats are in the water so they may not have the tiller on the boat. :(
       


      On Mar 8, 2012, at 2:49 PM, "Leighton Westlake" <leighton@...> wrote:

       

      Look at a Catalina 25 Tiller or a J24 Tiller.  Catalina did not produce a custom tiller for the 26.  The 26 used a 25 tiller.

      If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.

      <image007.jpg>

      Leighton Danis Westlake, Jr., PE, PLS

      Principal Engineer

      <image008.jpg>a division of <image009.jpg>

      10175 Flag Dr, Palm Beach Gardens, FL 33410-4775           

      Tel:  561-799-5280                                                                                                      

      Fax: 561-799-5776                                                                                                       )

      Cell: 561-222-0714

      email: leighton@...

      Privilaged Correspondence

      This e-mail and any attachments are intended only for the named recipient(s) and may contain information that is legally privileged, confidential, or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), you may not retain copy or use this e-mail or any attachment for any purpose or disclose all or any part of the contents to any other person. Any such dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or its attachments is strictly prohibited. Please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachment from your computer.

      From: capri26@yahoogroups.com [mailto:capri26@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Irwin
      Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 2:36 PM
      To: capri26@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [capri26] Looking for advice on a replacement tiller

       

      Thanks Bruce,

      I contacted H & L Marine and the price is still $88 to make a fully finished custom tiller.  They don't have a website, but they have a stock tiller for $82.00, and I found their tiller on Defender for $79.

      I also called Catalina Direct, but they tell me that my original tiller should only be 36" long, and he measure the rise of the tiller and it was only ~5 1/2"

      This is a pretty big diffrence from what I currently have. I remeasured my tiller and it was 43" long, and the rise is actaully only 10 3/4 "  The rise is measure to the underside of the lowest part of the forward end of the tiller ( I was measuring to the top).

      I think the shorter lenth would be ok, but I am worried about the rise? 

      Can anyone check to see if the I need to 10 3/4" of rise, the rise of 5 1/2 " doesn't seem right either???

      Thanks


      From: Bruce Spletstoser <splets@...>
      To: capri26@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thu, March 8, 2012 9:32:46 AM
      Subject: Re: [capri26] Looking for advice on a replacement tiller [1 Attachment]

       

      

      Here is the deal if you want to save some cash!!  I have attached the form for H&L Marine in California, I got their information from Catalina awhile back when they were out of stock on the tiller.  I was quoted, I think $65.00 for a new tiller with out it finished, or $88.00 fully finished.  You can use their measurement form or mail them yours for an exact copy, or give them the dimensions and they will build it!!!!

      Good luck!

      Splets

      Satin Sheets #148

      Gilbert, AZ

      ----- Original Message -----

      From: Mike Irwin

      Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 5:48 AM

      Subject: Re: [capri26] Looking for advice on a replacement tiller

       

      Thanks guys, I will call them this afternoon. I saw this one, but don't think it is going to give me the same height of 13"?

      Does anyone think the shorter tiller would be a problem. It seems to feel pretty comfortable were it is now.  I am wondering about clearance and comfort.

      Thanks


      On Mar 8, 2012, at 12:05 AM, "Bob White" <Capri26@...> wrote:

       

    • Mike Irwin
      Thanks guys, I will spend sometime trying to make it better this year. I appreciate all the good advice. ... Thanks guys, I will spend sometime trying to make
      Message 40 of 40 , Mar 11, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Thanks guys,

        I will spend sometime trying to make it better this year.

        I appreciate all the good advice.  

        On Mar 9, 2012, at 11:13 PM, Gary Pack <sailman@...> wrote:

         

        Bob, you always have good advice.  I find tuning the Capri 26 is a real challenge.  Minor turns of the turnbuckles make major differences in the mast shape.  And having the backstay off center doesn’t help.  I think the tension numbers from Catalina are a little high.  I tighten the forestay as much as possible first, and then tighten the backstay tight enough to bend the mast forward in the middle an inch or so.  I think that helps control the weather helm.  My boat is no. 270 and therefore I don’t need the spacer at the bottom of the mast.  

        Good luck, Mike

        Gary Pack, Breezin Bye


        On 3/9/12 1:39 PM, "Robert Unkel" <bunkel@...> wrote:


         
         
           

        Mike,

        I think the spacer will help you.  I start adjusting with the back stay and upper and lower shrouds loose and adjust the fore stay to get the mast fore/aft where I want it.  Make certain the upper shrouds are centering the top of the mast side to side. I use a tape measure from the top of the mast to the rub rail in the same place on both sides.  You can also use a shorter tape measure from the rub rail to a point you pick on the extrusion line on the front of the mast.  I put a pencil mark on it so I have the same height from which to make the measurement.  Make certain your support rods on the inside are tight before you start adjusting.  If you haven't already put lock nuts on them, I would suggest once they are tightened that you add lock nuts to them to keep them from moving in the future. Then start tightening the upper shrouds and keep the lower shrouds loose. The space will have the mast raking forward so when you start to tighten up the uppers that will pull it back aft.  Keep a line with weight or "Plum Bob" from the top of the mast on the back side of the mast to check rake aft.  When you have it where you want it, then start cranking the forestay and shrouds down and start tightening up the backstay.  The mast will stand on its own without the backstay because the uppers are aft of the tabernacle.  As you are tightening it all up keep and eye on your lower shrouds and adjust them to keep the mast straight by sighting up the mainsail groove. Don't make them too tight as they will then keep the mast from bending.  Once the mast has the prebend you want then slowly adjust all to get the tension you want.  To me the Forestay and Upper Shrouds are the ones you want tight.  I have a backstay adjuster on our boat and occasionally adjust it in a race but normally leave it alone.  The Lower Shrouds I adjust while underway and they get slack. I take up the slack until they have tension on them and the mast stays straight when under sail.  Look up the mainsail slot when underway to see how straight your mast is staying when under load.  It is important to keep it straight side to side under load. The Capri 26 mast is a tree trunk and not easily bowed front to back. Nothing like an old Sitka Spruce wooden Lightening mast or a J-24!

        This works for me and I have had our boat since new in 1990.  My hull number is 107 so it is an early one.  The spacer really helped me. Catalina sent it after I wrote to Frank Butler telling him I couldn't get the mast adjusted properly. As mentioned earlier they changed the design of the cabin top later in the run and this eliminated the problem on newer boats.

        It is just one old guys opinion, I am sure others may have a different opinion.

        Good luck in the adjusting, it isn't all that hard. Just takes time and a little patience.
        Bob

        On Mar 9, 2012, at 9:41 AM, Mike Irwin wrote:

          

        thanks bob, very good info. While I certainly had my mast in column.  I just could not get that much prebend.  While I certainly did not have any forward bend, I think I may have been fighting that be cause my mast was pretty straight. I think I was only able to achieve 2" of aft prebend max.

        On the loose gauge settings, I guess what I am wondering is the different tension between the upper and lower shrouds.

        Do you think the mast spacer is going to help my situation?


        On Mar 9, 2012, at 9:15 AM, Robert Unkel <bunkel@...> wrote:

         
        Mike,

        The spacer just helps make certain the mast bends the right direction.  Some of the really early boats ended up with their masts having reverse bends or "S" bends.  Catalina came out with the shim to solve the problem.    It tips the rear of the mast base towards the bow. On later boats they redesigned the support for the mast tabernacle.

         First thing is to get the mast centered side to side. Then adjust the front to back location using a string and weight or "plumb bob" tied to the top of the mast.  I think the tuning guide recommends about 4" of aft rake as a starting point.  Be aware that weight distribution of junk on the boat or crew members on it when measuring will affect it.  On my boat I found 4" was too far aft and I moved it forward.  I ended up shortening my forestay to get it where it was properly balanced.  the Loose Gage only tells you how tight the rig is not how well the mast is positioned. Get it in the right position first, then work to keep it there while getting it tightened up.  Position affects how well it sails, tightness makes certain it stay upright under sailing loads.

        Hope this helps,
        Bob
        On Mar 9, 2012, at 8:47 AM, Mike Irwin wrote:

          

        I don't think I had my rig set up very well last year. I got the mast spacer from Catalina and will install that this year to see if that helps with the rake issue.

        I will follow the Catalina tunning guide again, but if any one has any suggestions on the loose gauge setting that may be helpful.

        I know we have a very stiff rig, so not sure how adjustable it is. I played around with it last year and could seem to get it right.  I think that mast spacer will be helpful.

        I have hull no 185, and it is a wing keel

        On Mar 9, 2012, at 8:39 AM, "Bob White" <Capri26@...> wrote:

         

        Too far aft?  I found that if I didn’t have an aft rake, I rounded up.  How do you know if it is “too far aft?”

        From: Robert Unkel <mailto:bunkel@...>  
        Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 7:33 AM
        To: capri26@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [capri26] Best Jenny size
         
          
        I think you would be fine with a 150 or 155% Genoa in these wind ranges, especially if your roller furling allows you to reef it down a bit in heavier air.  We fly our 170 up to about 14 kts.  which is the design limit of the sail and its construction (Mylar).  We routinely use the 150 up to 16-17+ without major handling issues.  The Capri 26  has a tendency to round up a early mainly due to the mast being raked too far aft and the mainsail sheeted in too tight. You always have the option to reef the main when it picks up.  

         
        That said if you want a really safe sail that has little chance of overpowering you, then look at a 135.  It gives you more cushion for higher wind speeds and a little more power in the lower wind ranges than a standard 110 jib.  IE: wing and wing downwind.
         
        What is on the boat now?  What do you like or dislike about its size?
         
        You should have a lot of really good sail lofts in your area who can help you select what will work best for your sailing needs.
         
        These are just my thoughts, I am certain others will offer their opinions.
         
        Regards,
        Bob Unkel
         
        On Mar 9, 2012, at 8:18 AM, waterwindsail@... wrote:
         
          
         
        This is my only sail.  Don't race.  Don't want to be overpowered. Have roller furling  wind. 10 to 15

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Mar 9, 2012, at 8:14 AM, Robert Unkel <bunkel@...> wrote:


           
        Need more information to comment. What are your wind normal wind  conditions?  Do you cruise or race?  Do you have other head sails?  Do you have roller furling?  If so is it the kind you can reef?
         
         
         
        Regards,
         
        Bob Unkel
         
         
         
         
         
         
        On Mar 9, 2012, at 6:12 AM, Mike Irwin wrote:
         
         
         
           
         
         
         
        I have a 140 or 150, but i sale on a small inland lake and I have a  furler.  We had the boat up on lake Michigan on a very windy day and it  did ok .  I would be Intreasted to hear what everyone else has to say, I  am still trying to figure out my optional set up.
         
         
         
        I haven't sailed in Boston, so others may have better ideas, but If I  didn't have the furler and sailed in Boston I would want something smaller  than a 150 for sure.
         
         
         
        Mike

        On Mar 8, 2012, at 10:13 PM, Waterwindsail <waterwindsail@...>  wrote:

         
         

           
         
         
           
         I live in Boston, what do you all think is the optimal  size jenny?



        --- On Thu, 3/8/12, Bob White <Capri26@...>  wrote:
         

        From:  Bob White <Capri26@...>
        Subject:  Re: [capri26] Looking for advice on a replacement tiller
        To: capri26@yahoogroups.com
        Date:  Thursday, March 8, 2012, 9:57 PM

               
          
        You just might be right.  It has been at least 5 or 6  years since I bought one (I am in need of another), that I have  forgotten.  
          
         Thanks!
         
          
          From: waterwindsail@... <x-msg://9/mc/compose?to=waterwindsail@...>   
         Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 8:54 PM
         To: capri26@yahoogroups.com <x-msg://9/mc/compose?to=capri26@yahoogroups.com>   
         Cc: mailto:capri26@yahoogroups.com <x-msg://9/mc/compose?to=capri26@yahoogroups.com>   
         Subject: Re: [capri26] Looking for advice on a  replacement tiller
          
            
         The tiller I got from catalina direct had no holes. I drilled  them to fit

        Sent from my iPhone
         
        On Mar 8, 2012, at 9:48 PM, "Bob White" <Capri26@... <x-msg://9/mc/compose?to=Capri26@...> >  wrote:

         
         
              I also noticed that holes at the base might not match the  holes in the tillers that are for sale.  When I ordered mine  from Cat. Direct, I just assumed everything would match—and it  did.  I looked at the West Marine tillers and saw that the  holes did NOT match.  
         
          
          From: Bruce  Spletstoser <x-msg://9/mc/compose?to=splets@...>  
         Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 5:24 PM
         To: capri26@yahoogroups.com <x-msg://9/mc/compose?to=capri26@yahoogroups.com>   
         Subject: Re: [capri26] Looking for advice on a  replacement tiller
          
            I cannot find the measurements I used to order  my tiller, but I do remember it was 43" long.
         
         
        Splets
        Satin Sheets #148
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
         From:  Mike Irwin <x-msg://9/mc/compose?to=mikirwn@...>   
         To: capri26@yahoogroups.com <x-msg://9/mc/compose?to=capri26@yahoogroups.com>   
         Cc: mailto:capri26@yahoogroups.com> <x-msg://9/mc/compose?to=capri26@yahoogroups.com%3E>   
         Sent: Thursday, March 08,  2012 1:45 PM
         Subject: Re: [capri26]  Looking for advice on a replacement tiller
          
            Thanks Leighton, I actually have a J24, and the  tiller not near as curved as my Capri
          
         The J and and Cat 25 both have transom hung rudders, so  wouldn't the tiller be a little straighter than what we  have?
          
         I think my Capri tiller may have way more rise than needed,  but I am still unsure.
          
         We have 4 or 5 Capri 26's at my sailing club so I may run  out to see what others have, however none of the boats are in  the water so they may not have the tiller on the boat. :(
          
         

        On Mar 8, 2012, at 2:49 PM, "Leighton Westlake"  <leighton@... <x-msg://9/mc/compose?to=leighton@...> >  wrote:

         
         
             
        Look at a Catalina 25  Tiller or a J24 Tiller.  Catalina did not pro

         
         

         
           


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