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Re: Bradford Bypass

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  • DJS
    ... a ... is ... Wait a minute you seem to mis-understand me here. My proposal is this Extend the 427 to curve back to the 400 and include it in the bradford
    Message 1 of 23 , Oct 6, 2002
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      > > Naming the Bradford Bypass as Highway 427 is an ingenious idea.
      > When
      > > the 427 is eventually extended northerly to meet highway 400 and
      > > possibly even further north it could nicely tie all the major
      > > highway's togather (highway 400 and highway 404).
      > >
      > > The portion of the proposed highway 427 north of the bradford
      > > bypass/ highway 9 line could be numbered as 411 and could tie in
      > > with the rest of highway highway 11 which is under upgrading to
      a
      > > 400 series standard.
      > >
      > > DanTheGrassman
      >
      > This is nuts! The 427 SHOULD NOT and in my opinion WILL NOT be
      > recurved to the 400. It WILL be brought to a future 426 in the
      > Collingwood/Stayner area. Bring it to the 400 and all you'll get
      is
      > bottleneck.
      >
      > Rush

      Wait a minute you seem to mis-understand me here. My proposal is
      this Extend the 427 to curve back to the 400 and include it in the
      bradford bypass as well. Plus continue another new highway highway
      northely like highway 426 or highway 411 or even both and have one
      wrap arounf Barrie and link up with highway 11 and the other like
      you say to Collingwood. My plan is the same as yours just different
      numbering.

      DanTheGrassman
    • Snickerdo
      ... Yes, but you have to understand that the 427 might end at the 404 for the next little while until the freeway is extended north. The 427 won t be going
      Message 2 of 23 , Oct 6, 2002
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        > Wait a minute you seem to mis-understand me here. My proposal is
        > this Extend the 427 to curve back to the 400 and include it in the
        > bradford bypass as well. Plus continue another new highway highway
        > northely like highway 426 or highway 411 or even both and have one
        > wrap arounf Barrie and link up with highway 11 and the other like
        > you say to Collingwood. My plan is the same as yours just different
        > numbering.

        Yes, but you have to understand that the 427 might end at the 404 for
        the next little while until the freeway is extended north. The 427
        won't be going all the way north of Barrie right away.
      • Brent Hooton
        ... That s been my thought as well. I don t know if anyone else has ordered that MTO research publication on the introduction of bilingual signage, but they
        Message 3 of 23 , Oct 6, 2002
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          --- Snickerdo <snickerdo@...> wrote:

          > I agree with
          > the previous message about how numbers above 440
          > "don't look right."
          > 430s seem to look okay, but once you get above that
          > it just looks plain
          > odd.

          That's been my thought as well. I don't know if
          anyone else has ordered that MTO research publication
          on the introduction of bilingual signage, but they
          made a bunch of mock-ups of alternative sign designs
          for testing on drivers, using fictitious road names
          and some made-up highway numbers -- one of them was
          435 (in place of the QEW, I think). It looked all
          right.

          Brent

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        • Snickerdo
          ... Perhaps some future insight into what the 35/115 will be numbered? :)
          Message 4 of 23 , Oct 6, 2002
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            > That's been my thought as well. I don't know if
            > anyone else has ordered that MTO research publication
            > on the introduction of bilingual signage, but they
            > made a bunch of mock-ups of alternative sign designs
            > for testing on drivers, using fictitious road names
            > and some made-up highway numbers -- one of them was
            > 435 (in place of the QEW, I think). It looked all
            > right.

            Perhaps some future insight into what the 35/115 will be numbered? :)
          • Brent Hooton
            ... The EMTC (East Metro Transportation Corridor) is the most likely choice of those three, I think. (The MPC is too new a development.) I haven t seen
            Message 5 of 23 , Oct 6, 2002
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              --- Snickerdo <snickerdo@...> wrote:

              > This brings up an interesting question, how did the
              > 409 get its number?
              > If the 409 was part of the sequential numbering (and
              > there's no doubt in
              > my mind that it is) then what in the heck was the
              > 408 supposed to be?
              > The Mid-Penninsula Freeway? That planned
              > north/south leg of the 407 in
              > Eastern Toronto? Something in Ottawa?

              The EMTC (East Metro Transportation Corridor) is the
              most likely choice of those three, I think. (The MPC
              is too new a development.) I haven't seen anything
              conclusive on 408, though. Another option might be
              the Conestoga Parkway or the Hwy. 8 connector in K/W,
              which was a highway of similar vintage.

              I must raise a nitpicking point... the spelling of
              "peninsula" (and thus "Mid-Pen") does not have a
              double "n"... this is not Pennsylvania... :)

              Brent

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            • Snickerdo
              ... Well, I m sure that there were early (but not identical) east-west freeway plans in the Niagara PeNinsula. I m not sure if any of these were finalized
              Message 6 of 23 , Oct 6, 2002
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                > The EMTC (East Metro Transportation Corridor) is the
                > most likely choice of those three, I think. (The MPC
                > is too new a development.) I haven't seen anything
                > conclusive on 408, though. Another option might be
                > the Conestoga Parkway or the Hwy. 8 connector in K/W,
                > which was a highway of similar vintage.

                Well, I'm sure that there were early (but not identical) east-west
                freeway plans in the Niagara PeNinsula. I'm not sure if any of these
                were finalized though.

                > I must raise a nitpicking point... the spelling of
                > "peninsula" (and thus "Mid-Pen") does not have a
                > double "n"... this is not Pennsylvania... :)

                Ohhhh, right. Not that I live here or anything :)
              • Craig
                ... numbered? :) I like the number 428 for that highway. It is basically an extension (within about 10 km) of existing Highway 28, and the old 28 ran
                Message 7 of 23 , Oct 6, 2002
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                  --- In canroads@y..., "Snickerdo" <snickerdo@c...> wrote:
                  > > That's been my thought as well. I don't know if
                  > > anyone else has ordered that MTO research publication
                  > > on the introduction of bilingual signage, but they
                  > > made a bunch of mock-ups of alternative sign designs
                  > > for testing on drivers, using fictitious road names
                  > > and some made-up highway numbers -- one of them was
                  > > 435 (in place of the QEW, I think). It looked all
                  > > right.
                  >
                  > Perhaps some future insight into what the 35/115 will be
                  numbered? :)

                  I like the number 428 for that highway. It is basically an extension
                  (within about 10 km) of existing Highway 28, and the old 28 ran
                  concurrent with 115 for a fairly long stretch. I would reserve 415
                  for the new Eastern Ontario freeway starting with the Highway 7
                  expansion to Carleton Place (adopt 415 immediately) and then
                  parallel to Highway 15. (Some clustering going on in the Ottawa
                  area!)
                  Anyway, I think 430 should be a limit, except for some numbers
                  ending in zero (440, 450, 460, etc.) and possibly one (431, 441,
                  [451 already exists], 461, etc.). Otherwise, it will get too
                  confusing and will sound odd.
                • sailordumas
                  ... Maybe they call it Mid-Penn for sort of nostalgia when Conrail formerly Penn Central railroad used to pass thru southern Ontario because the
                  Message 8 of 23 , Oct 6, 2002
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                    >
                    > > I must raise a nitpicking point... the spelling of
                    > > "peninsula" (and thus "Mid-Pen") does not have a
                    > > double "n"... this is not Pennsylvania... :)
                    >
                    > Ohhhh, right. Not that I live here or anything :)

                    Maybe they call it "Mid-Penn" for sort of nostalgia when Conrail
                    formerly Penn Central railroad used to pass thru southern Ontario
                    because the Detroit-Chigago-Buffalo route was much shorter than going
                    via Cleveland (but very later, they changed their plans and they runs
                    via Cleveland and letting the actual railway abandonned althought
                    some groups wants to save the link.

                    St├ęphane Dumas
                  • Stephen M. Webb
                    ... Wasn t it the Hamilton-Nanticoke freeway (parallel to highway 6)? Cancelled when the province dropped the idea of creating the City of Nanticoke? --
                    Message 9 of 23 , Oct 7, 2002
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                      On October 6, 2002 06:18 pm, Snickerdo wrote:
                      >
                      > This brings up an interesting question, how did the 409 get its
                      > number? If the 409 was part of the sequential numbering (and there's
                      > no doubt in my mind that it is) then what in the heck was the 408
                      > supposed to be? The Mid-Penninsula Freeway? That planned north/south
                      > leg of the 407 in Eastern Toronto? Something in Ottawa?

                      Wasn't it the Hamilton-Nanticoke freeway (parallel to highway 6)?
                      Cancelled when the province dropped the idea of creating the City of
                      Nanticoke?


                      --
                      Stephen M. Webb
                    • Dinordo Hill
                      Nice to see you guys taking about the freeway numbering in Ontario. Love it. Good discussions. Too bad no one can make a map,, post it on canroads, with
                      Message 10 of 23 , Oct 7, 2002
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                        Nice to see you guys taking about the freeway numbering
                        in Ontario. Love it. Good discussions. Too bad no
                        one can make a map,, post it on canroads, with proposed
                        and existing freeways.

                        My favorites are Ontario and Quebec. Future routings.

                        It's nice to see that Ontario is tackling there freeway
                        issues.

                        D

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                      • Snickerdo
                        ... Why not 401?
                        Message 11 of 23 , Oct 7, 2002
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                          > On another note, kudos to whoever nominated 418 as the new number for
                          > the border crossing route in Windsor. While there are no guarantees
                          > it will be freeway, here's hoping!

                          Why not 401?
                        • a_onion
                          ... There are two of us working on that right now. Some files have been uploaded in the ontroads group, but its a long and tedious process to make the maps...
                          Message 12 of 23 , Oct 7, 2002
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                            --- In canroads@y..., "Dinordo Hill" <dinordo@p...> wrote:
                            > Nice to see you guys taking about the freeway numbering
                            > in Ontario. Love it. Good discussions. Too bad no
                            > one can make a map,, post it on canroads, with proposed
                            > and existing freeways.

                            There are two of us working on that right now. Some files have been
                            uploaded in the ontroads group, but its a long and tedious process
                            to make the maps...


                            >
                            > My favorites are Ontario and Quebec. Future routings.
                            >
                            > It's nice to see that Ontario is tackling there freeway
                            > issues.
                            >
                            > D
                            >
                            > ________________________________________________
                            > PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart.
                            > http://www.peoplepc.com
                          • a_onion
                            ... number for ... guarantees ... YES, that would be the best number for the border crossing for sure!!!
                            Message 13 of 23 , Oct 7, 2002
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                              --- In canroads@y..., "Snickerdo" <snickerdo@c...> wrote:
                              > > On another note, kudos to whoever nominated 418 as the new
                              number for
                              > > the border crossing route in Windsor. While there are no
                              guarantees
                              > > it will be freeway, here's hoping!
                              >
                              > Why not 401?

                              YES, that would be the best number for the border crossing for
                              sure!!!
                            • Dinordo Hill
                              On another note, kudos to whoever nominated 418 as the new number for > the border crossing route in Windsor.  While there are no guarantees
                              Message 14 of 23 , Oct 7, 2002
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                                On another note, kudos to whoever nominated 418 as the
                                new number for <BR>
                                > the border crossing route in Windsor.  While
                                there are no guarantees <BR>
                                > it will be freeway, here's hoping!<BR>
                                <BR>
                                Why not 401?<BR>


                                It should be 401

                                D

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                                PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart.
                                http://www.peoplepc.com
                              • Craig
                                ... Ontario ... althought ... part ... Conrail ... of ... I d ... CN/VIA ... for ... guarantees ... I am assuming 401 will be extended to the border in itself,
                                Message 15 of 23 , Oct 7, 2002
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                                  --- In canroads@y..., "Andrew Dowie" <editedfortv@y...> wrote:
                                  > --- In canroads@y..., "sailordumas" <stephdumas@v...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Maybe they call it "Mid-Penn" for sort of nostalgia when Conrail
                                  > > formerly Penn Central railroad used to pass thru southern
                                  Ontario
                                  > > because the Detroit-Chigago-Buffalo route was much shorter than
                                  > going
                                  > > via Cleveland (but very later, they changed their plans and they
                                  > runs
                                  > > via Cleveland and letting the actual railway abandonned
                                  althought
                                  > > some groups wants to save the link.
                                  >
                                  > In Essex County, these Conrail lands were purchased by the Essex
                                  > Region Conservation Authority and converted into the Greenway (a
                                  part
                                  > of the Trans Canada Trail). I haven't seen any remnants of
                                  Conrail
                                  > elsewhere; do they exist?
                                  >
                                  > The CASO line is up for abandonment, at least in the Niagara
                                  > Peninsula. They've sold off one bridge and have torn up a segment
                                  of
                                  > the railway but much of it is still intact. I hope it remains;
                                  I'd
                                  > rather see it used for freight and passenger service than the
                                  CN/VIA
                                  > Chatham Sub.
                                  >
                                  > On another note, kudos to whoever nominated 418 as the new number
                                  for
                                  > the border crossing route in Windsor. While there are no
                                  guarantees
                                  > it will be freeway, here's hoping!

                                  I am assuming 401 will be extended to the border in itself, and 418
                                  would be an additional branch.
                                • Brent Hooton
                                  ... I don t think so. Any of the planning documents for Townsend that I ve seen refer to it simply as Highway 6. Brent
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Oct 7, 2002
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                                    --- "Stephen M. Webb" <stephenw@...> wrote:
                                    > On October 6, 2002 06:18 pm, Snickerdo wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > This brings up an interesting question, how did
                                    > the 409 get its
                                    > > number? If the 409 was part of the sequential
                                    > numbering (and there's
                                    > > no doubt in my mind that it is) then what in the
                                    > heck was the 408
                                    > > supposed to be? The Mid-Penninsula Freeway? That
                                    > planned north/south
                                    > > leg of the 407 in Eastern Toronto? Something in
                                    > Ottawa?
                                    >
                                    > Wasn't it the Hamilton-Nanticoke freeway (parallel
                                    > to highway 6)?
                                    > Cancelled when the province dropped the idea of
                                    > creating the City of
                                    > Nanticoke?

                                    I don't think so. Any of the planning documents for
                                    Townsend that I've seen refer to it simply as Highway
                                    6.

                                    Brent

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