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Mystery water trap

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  • divonic
    Our Nic 35, SIRENA IV (#155) collects water in her bilge, and there appear to be a number of reasons for this: I ve seen the pressure relief valve from the hot
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 23, 2013
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      Our Nic 35, SIRENA IV (#155) collects water in her bilge, and there appear to be a number of reasons for this: I've seen the pressure relief valve from the hot water tank dribbling, and worked out the bar setting is too low compared to the water pump; we developed a leak in the toilet pump which I fixed; the previous owner blamed rainwater coming down the mast (I'm not convinced); and what appears to be an elderly watertrap is rusty and beginning to weep.

      It's the watertrap I want to ask advice on - I have posted 2 photos in the new SIRENA IV album. It's a Vetus, but has no other markings on it - a simple metal cylinder approx 9" long and 5" diameter, and it's the only thing between the exhaust elbow and the transom. It sits under the galley floor, and the pipe then goes back under the quaterberth to the stern. The previous owner replaced the original engine in 2005 with a Beta 35, yet Vetus tell me they haven't made metal traps for 15 years or more - he was thorough and I'm surprised if he didn't replace it then.

      I'm thinking of replacing it with a Vetus NLPH model, a tube shape that should fit under the floor, though I have not measured exactly yet.

      First question is whether anyone has seen the same and what did you replace it with?

      Second question is what capacity of trap do people have, and what other advice/experience is on offer?

      Thanks! Nic & Lesley
    • colin_cd
      Hi Nic, We have a water in the bilge issue on Trutz and have had for some time. We are still working on a leak from the rudder stock/flange/packing. This is
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 23, 2013
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        Hi Nic,

        We have a water in the bilge issue on Trutz and have had for some time. We are still working on a leak from the rudder stock/flange/packing. This is a common area for water ingress.

        If it was the trap then you would presumably get exhaust gases in the cabin from a leaky exhaust? If no fumes possibly no leak?

        Noted re the pressure relief valve. If so, bilge water will be fresh.

        Another area to consider (as are we) is a leak from the freshwaterr tank. We have fore and aft tanks and suspect the fwd tank.

        Rgds

        Colin
        Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

        From: "divonic" <yahoo@...>
        Sender: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 09:59:57 -0000
        To: <campernicholson@yahoogroups.com>
        ReplyTo: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [campernicholson] Mystery water trap

         

        Our Nic 35, SIRENA IV (#155) collects water in her bilge, and there appear to be a number of reasons for this: I've seen the pressure relief valve from the hot water tank dribbling, and worked out the bar setting is too low compared to the water pump; we developed a leak in the toilet pump which I fixed; the previous owner blamed rainwater coming down the mast (I'm not convinced); and what appears to be an elderly watertrap is rusty and beginning to weep.

        It's the watertrap I want to ask advice on - I have posted 2 photos in the new SIRENA IV album. It's a Vetus, but has no other markings on it - a simple metal cylinder approx 9" long and 5" diameter, and it's the only thing between the exhaust elbow and the transom. It sits under the galley floor, and the pipe then goes back under the quaterberth to the stern. The previous owner replaced the original engine in 2005 with a Beta 35, yet Vetus tell me they haven't made metal traps for 15 years or more - he was thorough and I'm surprised if he didn't replace it then.

        I'm thinking of replacing it with a Vetus NLPH model, a tube shape that should fit under the floor, though I have not measured exactly yet.

        First question is whether anyone has seen the same and what did you replace it with?

        Second question is what capacity of trap do people have, and what other advice/experience is on offer?

        Thanks! Nic & Lesley

      • David Seer
        Had one of these on our Nich 345 too. I remember the diameter of the exhaust elbow on the engine didn t match the spigots on the silencer / water trap - which
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 23, 2013
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          Had one of these on our Nich 345 too. I remember the diameter of the exhaust elbow on the engine didn't match the spigots on the silencer / water trap - which from the photograph also appears to be the case with yours.

          Best Regards,

          David Seer.


          To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
          From: yahoo@...
          Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 09:59:57 +0000
          Subject: [campernicholson] Mystery water trap

           
          Our Nic 35, SIRENA IV (#155) collects water in her bilge, and there appear to be a number of reasons for this: I've seen the pressure relief valve from the hot water tank dribbling, and worked out the bar setting is too low compared to the water pump; we developed a leak in the toilet pump which I fixed; the previous owner blamed rainwater coming down the mast (I'm not convinced); and what appears to be an elderly watertrap is rusty and beginning to weep.

          It's the watertrap I want to ask advice on - I have posted 2 photos in the new SIRENA IV album. It's a Vetus, but has no other markings on it - a simple metal cylinder approx 9" long and 5" diameter, and it's the only thing between the exhaust elbow and the transom. It sits under the galley floor, and the pipe then goes back under the quaterberth to the stern. The previous owner replaced the original engine in 2005 with a Beta 35, yet Vetus tell me they haven't made metal traps for 15 years or more - he was thorough and I'm surprised if he didn't replace it then.

          I'm thinking of replacing it with a Vetus NLPH model, a tube shape that should fit under the floor, though I have not measured exactly yet.

          First question is whether anyone has seen the same and what did you replace it with?

          Second question is what capacity of trap do people have, and what other advice/experience is on offer?

          Thanks! Nic & Lesley


        • Graham Norbury
          Nic, The general philosophy with water traps / mufflers is that the pot should be sized to hold the maximum volume of water likely to be in the exhaust at any
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 23, 2013
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            Nic,

            The general philosophy with water traps / mufflers is that the pot should be sized to hold the maximum volume of water likely to be in the exhaust at any one time.  i.e. when the engine is shut down, the water draining back should not exceed the volume of the pot plus a little added safety margin.

            Graham

            On 8/23/2013 8:32 AM, David Seer wrote:
             

            Had one of these on our Nich 345 too. I remember the diameter of the exhaust elbow on the engine didn't match the spigots on the silencer / water trap - which from the photograph also appears to be the case with yours.

            Best Regards,

            David Seer.


            To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
            From: yahoo@...
            Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 09:59:57 +0000
            Subject: [campernicholson] Mystery water trap

             
            Our Nic 35, SIRENA IV (#155) collects water in her bilge, and there appear to be a number of reasons for this: I've seen the pressure relief valve from the hot water tank dribbling, and worked out the bar setting is too low compared to the water pump; we developed a leak in the toilet pump which I fixed; the previous owner blamed rainwater coming down the mast (I'm not convinced); and what appears to be an elderly watertrap is rusty and beginning to weep.

            It's the watertrap I want to ask advice on - I have posted 2 photos in the new SIRENA IV album. It's a Vetus, but has no other markings on it - a simple metal cylinder approx 9" long and 5" diameter, and it's the only thing between the exhaust elbow and the transom. It sits under the galley floor, and the pipe then goes back under the quaterberth to the stern. The previous owner replaced the original engine in 2005 with a Beta 35, yet Vetus tell me they haven't made metal traps for 15 years or more - he was thorough and I'm surprised if he didn't replace it then.

            I'm thinking of replacing it with a Vetus NLPH model, a tube shape that should fit under the floor, though I have not measured exactly yet.

            First question is whether anyone has seen the same and what did you replace it with?

            Second question is what capacity of trap do people have, and what other advice/experience is on offer?

            Thanks! Nic & Lesley



          • Lowdens
            Have you considered leaks from scupper/deck joints? You have presumably eliminated anchor-chain dribbles? Stephen Lowden 35/190 Malfi
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 23, 2013
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              Have you considered leaks from scupper/deck joints?  You have presumably eliminated anchor-chain dribbles?
              Stephen Lowden 35/190 Malfi
            • Brian Stannard
              A water trap is sized so the standing water in the exhaust hose at shut down will not over fill it and flood the engine. I don t have a 35 so can t be more
              Message 6 of 8 , Aug 23, 2013
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                A water trap is sized so the standing water in the exhaust hose at shut down will not over fill it and flood the engine. I don't have a 35 so can't be more specific.


                On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 2:59 AM, divonic <yahoo@...> wrote:
                 

                Our Nic 35, SIRENA IV (#155) collects water in her bilge, and there appear to be a number of reasons for this: I've seen the pressure relief valve from the hot water tank dribbling, and worked out the bar setting is too low compared to the water pump; we developed a leak in the toilet pump which I fixed; the previous owner blamed rainwater coming down the mast (I'm not convinced); and what appears to be an elderly watertrap is rusty and beginning to weep.

                It's the watertrap I want to ask advice on - I have posted 2 photos in the new SIRENA IV album. It's a Vetus, but has no other markings on it - a simple metal cylinder approx 9" long and 5" diameter, and it's the only thing between the exhaust elbow and the transom. It sits under the galley floor, and the pipe then goes back under the quaterberth to the stern. The previous owner replaced the original engine in 2005 with a Beta 35, yet Vetus tell me they haven't made metal traps for 15 years or more - he was thorough and I'm surprised if he didn't replace it then.

                I'm thinking of replacing it with a Vetus NLPH model, a tube shape that should fit under the floor, though I have not measured exactly yet.

                First question is whether anyone has seen the same and what did you replace it with?

                Second question is what capacity of trap do people have, and what other advice/experience is on offer?

                Thanks! Nic & Lesley




                --
                Cheers
                Brian

              • divonic
                Thanks to all who have replied to Water Trap question - helpful as always. 2 Questions to David Seer: I have discovered with the use of mirrors that my metal
                Message 7 of 8 , Aug 30, 2013
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                  Thanks to all who have replied to Water Trap question - helpful as always.  


                  2 Questions to David Seer:  I have discovered with the use of mirrors that my metal cylinder trap is bolted to the fibreglass body ie appears to be designed for the boat.  Was yours like that?  And the space I have btw the two runs of hose is only 360mm - what model of trap did you replace your cylinder with? 


                  many thanks



                  --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, <brianstannard@...> wrote:

                  A water trap is sized so the standing water in the exhaust hose at shut down will not over fill it and flood the engine. I don't have a 35 so can't be more specific.


                  On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 2:59 AM, divonic <yahoo@...> wrote:
                   

                  Our Nic 35, SIRENA IV (#155) collects water in her bilge, and there appear to be a number of reasons for this: I've seen the pressure relief valve from the hot water tank dribbling, and worked out the bar setting is too low compared to the water pump; we developed a leak in the toilet pump which I fixed; the previous owner blamed rainwater coming down the mast (I'm not convinced); and what appears to be an elderly watertrap is rusty and beginning to weep.

                  It's the watertrap I want to ask advice on - I have posted 2 photos in the new SIRENA IV album. It's a Vetus, but has no other markings on it - a simple metal cylinder approx 9" long and 5" diameter, and it's the only thing between the exhaust elbow and the transom. It sits under the galley floor, and the pipe then goes back under the quaterberth to the stern. The previous owner replaced the original engine in 2005 with a Beta 35, yet Vetus tell me they haven't made metal traps for 15 years or more - he was thorough and I'm surprised if he didn't replace it then.

                  I'm thinking of replacing it with a Vetus NLPH model, a tube shape that should fit under the floor, though I have not measured exactly yet.

                  First question is whether anyone has seen the same and what did you replace it with?

                  Second question is what capacity of trap do people have, and what other advice/experience is on offer?

                  Thanks! Nic & Lesley




                  --
                  Cheers
                  Brian

                • swm4sf_1971_uk_sw
                  Hi, We didn t replace ours, although the engine installation drawing for the Nic 345 shows a plastic Vetus waterlock, like the one shown at
                  Message 8 of 8 , Aug 30, 2013
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                    Hi,


                    We didn't replace ours, although the engine installation drawing for the Nic 345 shows a plastic Vetus waterlock, like the one shown at http://www.boatpartsandspares.co.uk/ekmps/shops/boatparts/images/vetus-waterlock-lp-50-1165-p.jpg


                    There are various sizes of waterlock, based upon the diameter of the exhaust pipe.


                    It looks as if C&N had problems in successfully mounting that silencer in the boat (perhaps it rattled against the hull when the engine was running !?) so they made a glassfibre cradle for it, which they then bonded into the bilge. The one in our Nic 345 was a few feet away from the engine, on the other side of a bulkead, below the aft cabin berth. It was just sat against the hull, with no fixing of any kind.


                    As I said previously, the diameter of the exhaust pipe was greater than the diameter of the spigots on the silencer. Do the diameters of the exhaust elbow and the silencer spigots on your boat match ?


                    If you decide to replace the existing silencer, I would suggest a plastic waterlock similar to that in the photograph, if possible, turned through 90 degrees, and simply laid upright, on the centreling of the boat, in the bilge, below where the existing silencer is.


                    Let us all know how things go.


                    Best Regards,


                    DS.  



                    --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, <yahoo@...> wrote:

                    Thanks to all who have replied to Water Trap question - helpful as always.  


                    2 Questions to David Seer:  I have discovered with the use of mirrors that my metal cylinder trap is bolted to the fibreglass body ie appears to be designed for the boat.  Was yours like that?  And the space I have btw the two runs of hose is only 360mm - what model of trap did you replace your cylinder with? 


                    many thanks



                    --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, <brianstannard@...> wrote:

                    A water trap is sized so the standing water in the exhaust hose at shut down will not over fill it and flood the engine. I don't have a 35 so can't be more specific.


                    On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 2:59 AM, divonic <yahoo@...> wrote:
                     

                    Our Nic 35, SIRENA IV (#155) collects water in her bilge, and there appear to be a number of reasons for this: I've seen the pressure relief valve from the hot water tank dribbling, and worked out the bar setting is too low compared to the water pump; we developed a leak in the toilet pump which I fixed; the previous owner blamed rainwater coming down the mast (I'm not convinced); and what appears to be an elderly watertrap is rusty and beginning to weep.

                    It's the watertrap I want to ask advice on - I have posted 2 photos in the new SIRENA IV album. It's a Vetus, but has no other markings on it - a simple metal cylinder approx 9" long and 5" diameter, and it's the only thing between the exhaust elbow and the transom. It sits under the galley floor, and the pipe then goes back under the quaterberth to the stern. The previous owner replaced the original engine in 2005 with a Beta 35, yet Vetus tell me they haven't made metal traps for 15 years or more - he was thorough and I'm surprised if he didn't replace it then.

                    I'm thinking of replacing it with a Vetus NLPH model, a tube shape that should fit under the floor, though I have not measured exactly yet.

                    First question is whether anyone has seen the same and what did you replace it with?

                    Second question is what capacity of trap do people have, and what other advice/experience is on offer?

                    Thanks! Nic & Lesley




                    --
                    Cheers
                    Brian

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