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HURTH GEARBOX

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  • Don
    Saunterer has a Hurth Gear Box and I have a continual minor oil leak which may or not be from the seals or it may just be caused by overfilling with oil. In an
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 14, 2013
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      Saunterer has a Hurth Gear Box and I have a
      continual minor oil leak which may or not be from the seals or it may just be caused by overfilling with oil.

      In an attempt to ensure that I do not overfill I have removed the sump overflow plug and screwed in a nipple with a clear plastic hose and valve with the open end of the tube into a container to catch the overfill. I fill to the level where oil is seen in the clear plastic tube and open the valve to drain the excess into the container. There is a time lag issue because after I drain the excess and wait 10 minutes l again have overflow oil in the plastic tube.

      After running the engine for a few hours I see a small amount of oil in the sump. I am not sure if this self overflowing (as per Hurth's manual in the case of overfilling) or if the oil seals are weeping. I have no oil leaks after a 6 month lay up. Also, as the gearbox is run the oil heats up and will expand so maybe that is a contributing factor to the oil weep.

      I would like to hear back from other owners with a Hurth gearbox on their experience regarding leaks, filling and the self leveling overflow.

      If all the other Hurth's are leak free then I guess I have to remove the gearbox and redo the oil seals but I would rather avoid that if other owners experience this same problem.

      Thanks also for the response on the B & G instrument issue I posted a few weeks ago - it was very helpful and I am researching the various responses.

      Don Cleland
      Nic 35 Saunterer
    • Graham Norbury
      Don, Small marine transmissions are designed to run at atmospheric pressure - they all have a vent somewhere, sometimes as part of the dipstick/fill cap. If
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 14, 2013
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        Don,

        Small marine transmissions are designed to run at atmospheric pressure - they all have a vent somewhere, sometimes as part of the dipstick/fill cap.  If the vent gets clogged, the increase in operating temperature causes a rise in pressure which forces oil past the seals.  I've even seen this happen when a mistake was made on a rebuilt transmissions with brand new seals and a bad vent.

        In general I've found ZF Hurth gears to be fairly trouble free.  Persistent leaking is not normal unless there's some other issue going on, like a severe shaft misalignment causing undue stress/vibration on the output shaft & seal.  The oil level should be checked with the dipstick unscrewed and just rested in it's hole.  Can't say I've ever heard of a self leveling overflow feature and I never experienced that on my old HBW-150 v-drive.

        Regards,
        Graham


        On 04/14/2013 9:15 AM, Don wrote:
         

        Saunterer has a Hurth Gear Box and I have a
        continual minor oil leak which may or not be from the seals or it may just be caused by overfilling with oil.

        In an attempt to ensure that I do not overfill I have removed the sump overflow plug and screwed in a nipple with a clear plastic hose and valve with the open end of the tube into a container to catch the overfill. I fill to the level where oil is seen in the clear plastic tube and open the valve to drain the excess into the container. There is a time lag issue because after I drain the excess and wait 10 minutes l again have overflow oil in the plastic tube.

        After running the engine for a few hours I see a small amount of oil in the sump. I am not sure if this self overflowing (as per Hurth's manual in the case of overfilling) or if the oil seals are weeping. I have no oil leaks after a 6 month lay up. Also, as the gearbox is run the oil heats up and will expand so maybe that is a contributing factor to the oil weep.

        I would like to hear back from other owners with a Hurth gearbox on their experience regarding leaks, filling and the self leveling overflow.

        If all the other Hurth's are leak free then I guess I have to remove the gearbox and redo the oil seals but I would rather avoid that if other owners experience this same problem.

        Thanks also for the response on the B & G instrument issue I posted a few weeks ago - it was very helpful and I am researching the various responses.

        Don Cleland
        Nic 35 Saunterer


      • johnbaillie@btinternet.com
        Don, When I first bought Nic 35, Amaryllis, I had continual problems with gearoil being thrown out of the Hurth Vee Drive. I kept on topping up with ATF to the
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 14, 2013
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          Don,

          When I first bought Nic 35, Amaryllis, I had continual problems with gearoil being thrown out of the Hurth Vee Drive. I kept on topping up with ATF to the dipstick level. I reduced the amount of oil to the value shown in page 14 of the manual I have. I've put a copy in the Hurth Owner's Manuals folder I've created in the Yahoo Group. The oil never reached the dipstick and no more was thrown out.

          I'm now wondering whether I have misread the manual and have a blocked vent as Graham describes. Time to recheck.

          Anyway, if you have one of the models listed, you can drain and refill with the correct amount of ATF and eliminate one variable from the equation.

          John Baillie

          --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, "Don" <canbrisas@...> wrote:
          >
          > Saunterer has a Hurth Gear Box and I have a
          > continual minor oil leak which may or not be from the seals or it may just be caused by overfilling with oil.
          >
          > In an attempt to ensure that I do not overfill I have removed the sump overflow plug and screwed in a nipple with a clear plastic hose and valve with the open end of the tube into a container to catch the overfill. I fill to the level where oil is seen in the clear plastic tube and open the valve to drain the excess into the container. There is a time lag issue because after I drain the excess and wait 10 minutes l again have overflow oil in the plastic tube.
          >
          > After running the engine for a few hours I see a small amount of oil in the sump. I am not sure if this self overflowing (as per Hurth's manual in the case of overfilling) or if the oil seals are weeping. I have no oil leaks after a 6 month lay up. Also, as the gearbox is run the oil heats up and will expand so maybe that is a contributing factor to the oil weep.
          >
          > I would like to hear back from other owners with a Hurth gearbox on their experience regarding leaks, filling and the self leveling overflow.
          >
          > If all the other Hurth's are leak free then I guess I have to remove the gearbox and redo the oil seals but I would rather avoid that if other owners experience this same problem.
          >
          > Thanks also for the response on the B & G instrument issue I posted a few weeks ago - it was very helpful and I am researching the various responses.
          >
          > Don Cleland
          > Nic 35 Saunterer
          >
        • Colin Campbell-Dunlop
          Hi Don, We had our Hurth v drive refurbished as it was leaking ATF from the rear output shaft seal. The shaft itself had become a little corroded at some stage
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 14, 2013
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            Hi Don,

             

            We had our Hurth v drive refurbished as it was leaking ATF from the rear output shaft seal. 

             

            The shaft itself had become a little corroded at some stage and this took the seal out.  We were constantly topping up and mopping up. 

             

            We got a firm in Arundel to dismantle it.  They re-sleeved the output shaft and put in two new bearings.  It is fine now.  Not too expensive although we took the gearbox out ourselves and that necessitated a lift out.  We did it as part of the usual winter maintenance so there wasn’t an extra cost. 

             

            They checked the clutch packs at the same time and they were found to be fine with plenty of life left in them.  They are a pretty good gearbox apparently and well over spec for the size of boat and engine. 

             

            Hopefully you just have a blocked breather but if it looks like the rear seal most likely the above work will solve the problem.

             

            Rgds

             

            Colin

             

            From: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com [mailto:campernicholson@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don
            Sent: 14 April 2013 14:15
            To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [campernicholson] HURTH GEARBOX

             

             

            Saunterer has a Hurth Gear Box and I have a
            continual minor oil leak which may or not be from the seals or it may just be caused by overfilling with oil.

            In an attempt to ensure that I do not overfill I have removed the sump overflow plug and screwed in a nipple with a clear plastic hose and valve with the open end of the tube into a container to catch the overfill. I fill to the level where oil is seen in the clear plastic tube and open the valve to drain the excess into the container. There is a time lag issue because after I drain the excess and wait 10 minutes l again have overflow oil in the plastic tube.

            After running the engine for a few hours I see a small amount of oil in the sump. I am not sure if this self overflowing (as per Hurth's manual in the case of overfilling) or if the oil seals are weeping. I have no oil leaks after a 6 month lay up. Also, as the gearbox is run the oil heats up and will expand so maybe that is a contributing factor to the oil weep.

            I would like to hear back from other owners with a Hurth gearbox on their experience regarding leaks, filling and the self leveling overflow.

            If all the other Hurth's are leak free then I guess I have to remove the gearbox and redo the oil seals but I would rather avoid that if other owners experience this same problem.

            Thanks also for the response on the B & G instrument issue I posted a few weeks ago - it was very helpful and I am researching the various responses.

            Don Cleland
            Nic 35 Saunterer

          • Don
            Thanks for the responses. I have the model HBW15 2.8RV which does not have a dipstick. The oil level is correct when oil overflows from the number 7 hole (as
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 15, 2013
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              Thanks for the responses.

              I have the model HBW15 2.8RV which does not have a dipstick. The oil level is correct when oil overflows from the number 7 hole (as per Hurth manual). As I thought I was overfilling I replaced the plug, in the number 7 hole, with the nipple, clear tube and valve but on occasions I am overfilling.

              I will check the breather hole but failing that I am thinking that I will have to remove the gearbox.

              My cruising areas of Caribbean Basin and South America are at times so remote that a gearbox failure would be a problem. Trying to find ATF in the Bahama Out Islands this winter was difficult and checking gearbox oil level every day and topping up with the attendant loss of oil from overflow is messy and frustrating.

              Thanks again - good have other opinions and experiences.

              Don Cleland
              Saunterer
            • Graham Norbury
              An easy test to see if the vent is working is to run the transmission with the valve and tube in the #7 hole open. Lead the tube upwards and see if the oil
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 15, 2013
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                An easy test to see if the vent is working is to run the transmission with the valve and tube in the #7 hole open.  Lead the tube upwards and see if the oil gets pushed up the tube.  At any rate, it should stop leaking past the seals once the case is open to the atmosphere.  If leaks continue, it pretty much confirms a bad seal and/or shaft

                Graham.

                On 4/15/2013 8:34 AM, Don wrote:
                 


                Thanks for the responses.

                I have the model HBW15 2.8RV which does not have a dipstick. The oil level is correct when oil overflows from the number 7 hole (as per Hurth manual). As I thought I was overfilling I replaced the plug, in the number 7 hole, with the nipple, clear tube and valve but on occasions I am overfilling.

                I will check the breather hole but failing that I am thinking that I will have to remove the gearbox.

                My cruising areas of Caribbean Basin and South America are at times so remote that a gearbox failure would be a problem. Trying to find ATF in the Bahama Out Islands this winter was difficult and checking gearbox oil level every day and topping up with the attendant loss of oil from overflow is messy and frustrating.

                Thanks again - good have other opinions and experiences.

                Don Cleland
                Saunterer


              • Don
                Hi Graham, Air vent not blocked so I will be taking the gearbox out. Don Saunterer
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 20, 2013
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                  Hi Graham,

                  Air vent not blocked so I will be taking the gearbox out.

                  Don
                  Saunterer

                  --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > An easy test to see if the vent is working is to run the transmission
                  > with the valve and tube in the #7 hole open. Lead the tube upwards and
                  > see if the oil gets pushed up the tube. At any rate, it should stop
                  > leaking past the seals once the case is open to the atmosphere. If
                  > leaks continue, it pretty much confirms a bad seal and/or shaft
                  >
                  > Graham.
                  >
                • Graham Norbury
                  Many times oil seals are replaceable from the outside, but after you get the old one out do give the shaft a good look over (and feel) to check for ridges and
                  Message 8 of 10 , Apr 21, 2013
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                    Many times oil seals are replaceable from the outside, but after you get the old one out do give the shaft a good look over (and feel) to check for ridges and pitting.  If it is worn, it can sometimes be repaired by regrinding and/or installation of a shaft repair sleeve.  At that point though, it's a fair bet you'd need to break the box down on the bench.

                    Good luck.
                    Graham

                    On 04/20/2013 8:52 AM, Don wrote:
                     

                    Hi Graham,

                    Air vent not blocked so I will be taking the gearbox out.

                    Don
                    Saunterer

                    --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > An easy test to see if the vent is working is to run the transmission
                    > with the valve and tube in the #7 hole open. Lead the tube upwards and
                    > see if the oil gets pushed up the tube. At any rate, it should stop
                    > leaking past the seals once the case is open to the atmosphere. If
                    > leaks continue, it pretty much confirms a bad seal and/or shaft
                    >
                    > Graham.
                    >


                  • simon allard
                    Hi Don,   Not been online for sometime so sorry I didn t pick up your mail. I wonder if you can remind me of your personal email address so that I can
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jun 18, 2013
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                      Hi Don,
                       
                      Not been online for sometime so sorry I didn't pick up your mail.
                      I wonder if you can remind me of your personal email address so that I can correspond with you regards how you are finding your Beta engine?
                       
                      thanks
                      Simon
                       

                      From: Don <canbrisas@...>
                      To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sunday, 14 April 2013, 14:15
                      Subject: [campernicholson] HURTH GEARBOX
                       
                      Saunterer has a Hurth Gear Box and I have a
                      continual minor oil leak which may or not be from the seals or it may just be caused by overfilling with oil.

                      In an attempt to ensure that I do not overfill I have removed the sump overflow plug and screwed in a nipple with a clear plastic hose and valve with the open end of the tube into a container to catch the overfill. I fill to the level where oil is seen in the clear plastic tube and open the valve to drain the excess into the container. There is a time lag issue because after I drain the excess and wait 10 minutes l again have overflow oil in the plastic tube.

                      After running the engine for a few hours I see a small amount of oil in the sump. I am not sure if this self overflowing (as per Hurth's manual in the case of overfilling) or if the oil seals are weeping. I have no oil leaks after a 6 month lay up. Also, as the gearbox is run the oil heats up and will expand so maybe that is a contributing factor to the oil weep.

                      I would like to hear back from other owners with a Hurth gearbox on their experience regarding leaks, filling and the self leveling overflow.

                      If all the other Hurth's are leak free then I guess I have to remove the gearbox and redo the oil seals but I would rather avoid that if other owners experience this same problem.

                      Thanks also for the response on the B & G instrument issue I posted a few weeks ago - it was very helpful and I am researching the various responses.

                      Don Cleland
                      Nic 35 Saunterer

                    • Allen LoCicero
                      I don t mean to barge in but I would love to talk with someone who has repowered with a Beta.   Allen  From: simon allard To:
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jun 18, 2013
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                        I don't mean to barge in but I would love to 'talk' with someone who has repowered with a Beta.
                         
                        Allen 

                        From: simon allard <blue.nava@...>
                        To: "campernicholson@yahoogroups.com" <campernicholson@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 4:13 AM
                        Subject: Re: [campernicholson] HURTH GEARBOX
                         
                        Hi Don,
                         
                        Not been online for sometime so sorry I didn't pick up your mail.
                        I wonder if you can remind me of your personal email address so that I can correspond with you regards how you are finding your Beta engine?
                         
                        thanks
                        Simon
                         

                        From: Don <canbrisas@...>
                        To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sunday, 14 April 2013, 14:15
                        Subject: [campernicholson] HURTH GEARBOX
                         
                        Saunterer has a Hurth Gear Box and I have a continual minor oil leak which may or not be from the seals or it may just be caused by overfilling with oil. In an attempt to ensure that I do not overfill I have removed the sump overflow plug and screwed in a nipple with a clear plastic hose and valve with the open end of the tube into a container to catch the overfill. I fill to the level where oil is seen in the clear plastic tube and open the valve to drain the excess into the container. There is a time lag issue because after I drain the excess and wait 10 minutes l again have overflow oil in the plastic tube. After running the engine for a few hours I see a small amount of oil in the sump. I am not sure if this self overflowing (as per Hurth's manual in the case of overfilling) or if the oil seals are weeping. I have no oil leaks after a 6 month lay up. Also, as the gearbox is run the oil heats up and will expand so maybe that is a contributing factor to the oil weep. I would like to hear back from other owners with a Hurth gearbox on their experience regarding leaks, filling and the self leveling overflow. If all the other Hurth's are leak free then I guess I have to remove the gearbox and redo the oil seals but I would rather avoid that if other owners experience this same problem. Thanks also for the response on the B & G instrument issue I posted a few weeks ago - it was very helpful and I am researching the various responses. Don Cleland Nic 35 Saunterer
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