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Hydraulic pump problems

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  • allen.5549
    We have a 76 CN35 hull number 130 with a Perkins 40 HP connected to a hydraulic pump that the drive shaft is connected to. We purchased her in Feb. 2009.
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 31, 2013
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      We have a '76 CN35 hull number 130 with a Perkins 40 HP connected to
      a hydraulic pump that the drive shaft is connected to. We purchased her in Feb. 2009. Within 30 days the front seal in the pump failed.
      We had the pump rebuilt at that time. Everything has been fine since then. This weekend the front seal is bad again. I have no idea how many hours the engine has so instead of trying to get the pump rebuilt again I'm considering repowering and getting away from the hydraulics. I would like to see how some else accomplished this. What I'm having trouble working through is the shaft exits that the aft end of the keel. How/where would you install the engine to match the existing shaft location?

      Thank you,
      Allen
    • John Stothart
      The hydraulic drive on an Nich 35 is usually replaced with a V drive, the shaft would exit further aft and be supported with a P bracket. I think if you tried
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 31, 2013
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        The hydraulic drive on an Nich 35 is usually replaced with a V drive, the shaft would exit further aft and be supported with a P bracket. I think if you tried to do it using the existing shaft location the engine would end up in the cabin!

        Regards ,
        John 
        Nich 35 79 Dabbler


        On 31 Mar 2013, at 16:56, "allen.5549" <allen.5549@...> wrote:

         

        We have a '76 CN35 hull number 130 with a Perkins 40 HP connected to
        a hydraulic pump that the drive shaft is connected to. We purchased her in Feb. 2009. Within 30 days the front seal in the pump failed.
        We had the pump rebuilt at that time. Everything has been fine since then. This weekend the front seal is bad again. I have no idea how many hours the engine has so instead of trying to get the pump rebuilt again I'm considering repowering and getting away from the hydraulics. I would like to see how some else accomplished this. What I'm having trouble working through is the shaft exits that the aft end of the keel. How/where would you install the engine to match the existing shaft location?

        Thank you,
        Allen

      • Graham Norbury
        Replacing the hydraulic drive with a more conventional setup is tricky because you simply cannot locate an engine anywhere near where it would need to be to
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 31, 2013
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          Replacing the hydraulic drive with a more conventional setup is tricky because you simply cannot locate an engine anywhere near where it would need to be to match the existing shaft log.  Quite a few people have opted to replace the hydraulic unit with a saildrive.  It does require some fiberglass surgery, but is somewhat less complex than relocating the shaft log for a v drive.  Something like the Yanmar 3JH5E paired with an SD50 would work nicely.

          The other approach would be to figure out why the pump failed again so quickly.  Perhaps the previous rebuild only replaced the seal and didn't do anything to the worn input shaft?  The shaft should be examined carefully where the seal rides, and if there are ridges or pitting, it's either going to need to be replaced, reground or sleeved.

          Good luck
          Graham

          On 3/31/2013 11:56 AM, allen.5549 wrote:
           

          We have a '76 CN35 hull number 130 with a Perkins 40 HP connected to
          a hydraulic pump that the drive shaft is connected to. We purchased her in Feb. 2009. Within 30 days the front seal in the pump failed.
          We had the pump rebuilt at that time. Everything has been fine since then. This weekend the front seal is bad again. I have no idea how many hours the engine has so instead of trying to get the pump rebuilt again I'm considering repowering and getting away from the hydraulics. I would like to see how some else accomplished this. What I'm having trouble working through is the shaft exits that the aft end of the keel. How/where would you install the engine to match the existing shaft location?

          Thank you,
          Allen


        • Scurrvydog
          Allen, I took the entire engine/hydraulic system out and replaced it with a Volvo MD2030 with sail drive. I sealed the old shaft exit in the keel...No regrets!
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 31, 2013
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            Allen,
            I took the entire engine/hydraulic system out and replaced it with a Volvo MD2030 with sail drive. I sealed the old shaft exit in the keel...No regrets! The Volvo fits nicely in the space and you loose aprox 200 pounds in the change. I posted pics on the group site under LaBoheme refit.

            Best, Jeff
            Nic 35 # 39 "LaBoheme" (1972)

            Scurvy Dog Yacht Services, LLC
            410-588-7769

            Sent from my iPad 

            On Mar 31, 2013, at 11:56 AM, "allen.5549" <allen.5549@...> wrote:

             

            We have a '76 CN35 hull number 130 with a Perkins 40 HP connected to
            a hydraulic pump that the drive shaft is connected to. We purchased her in Feb. 2009. Within 30 days the front seal in the pump failed.
            We had the pump rebuilt at that time. Everything has been fine since then. This weekend the front seal is bad again. I have no idea how many hours the engine has so instead of trying to get the pump rebuilt again I'm considering repowering and getting away from the hydraulics. I would like to see how some else accomplished this. What I'm having trouble working through is the shaft exits that the aft end of the keel. How/where would you install the engine to match the existing shaft location?

            Thank you,
            Allen

          • Allen LoCicero
            I would like to thank you all for your replies. I was thinking someone must have at some point did what I m considering. Graham good tip about the shaft. I was
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 31, 2013
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              I would like to thank you all for your replies. I was thinking someone must have at some point did what I'm considering.
              Graham good tip about the shaft. I was wondering why the seal replacement did last.
              Jeff I will take a look at the pictures.

              From: Scurrvydog <scurrvydog@...>
              To: "campernicholson@yahoogroups.com" <campernicholson@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 1:28 PM
              Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Hydraulic pump problems
               
              Allen,
              I took the entire engine/hydraulic system out and replaced it with a Volvo MD2030 with sail drive. I sealed the old shaft exit in the keel...No regrets! The Volvo fits nicely in the space and you loose aprox 200 pounds in the change. I posted pics on the group site under LaBoheme refit.

              Best, Jeff
              Nic 35 # 39 "LaBoheme" (1972) Scurvy Dog Yacht Services, LLC
              410-588-7769

              Sent from my iPad 
              On Mar 31, 2013, at 11:56 AM, "allen.5549" <allen.5549@...> wrote:
               
              We have a '76 CN35 hull number 130 with a Perkins 40 HP connected to
              a hydraulic pump that the drive shaft is connected to. We purchased her in Feb. 2009. Within 30 days the front seal in the pump failed.
              We had the pump rebuilt at that time. Everything has been fine since then. This weekend the front seal is bad again. I have no idea how many hours the engine has so instead of trying to get the pump rebuilt again I'm considering repowering and getting away from the hydraulics. I would like to see how some else accomplished this. What I'm having trouble working through is the shaft exits that the aft end of the keel. How/where would you install the engine to match the existing shaft location?

              Thank you,
              Allen

            • Charles Popenoe
              Hi Allen, If it s any use, I have a Westerbeke (Perkins) 40 for sale. It was in running condition when I pulled it from our 1970 Nic 38 for a re-power. The
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 31, 2013
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                Hi Allen,

                 

                If it’s any use, I have a Westerbeke (Perkins) 40 for sale.  It was in running condition when I pulled it from our 1970 Nic 38 for a re-power.  The best part is that it has a freshly rebuilt Paragon transmission.  This was the set-up our Nic 38 came with originally.  If you are interested please contact me directly.  I would be glad to sell separately or together.

                 

                Thanks,

                Charles

                Nic 38 “Rampant”

                 

                From: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com [mailto:campernicholson@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allen.5549
                Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 11:56 AM
                To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [campernicholson] Hydraulic pump problems

                 

                 

                We have a '76 CN35 hull number 130 with a Perkins 40 HP connected to
                a hydraulic pump that the drive shaft is connected to. We purchased her in Feb. 2009. Within 30 days the front seal in the pump failed.
                We had the pump rebuilt at that time. Everything has been fine since then. This weekend the front seal is bad again. I have no idea how many hours the engine has so instead of trying to get the pump rebuilt again I'm considering repowering and getting away from the hydraulics. I would like to see how some else accomplished this. What I'm having trouble working through is the shaft exits that the aft end of the keel. How/where would you install the engine to match the existing shaft location?

                Thank you,
                Allen

              • Allen LoCicero
                Charles, Thank you for your offer. We hadn t really thought about something other than new. That gives us another option.    Allen From: Charles Popenoe
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 31, 2013
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                  Charles,
                  Thank you for your offer. We hadn't really thought about something other than new. That gives us another option. 
                   
                  Allen

                  From: Charles Popenoe <chas@...>
                  To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 5:05 PM
                  Subject: RE: [campernicholson] Hydraulic pump problems
                   
                  Hi Allen,
                   
                  If it’s any use, I have a Westerbeke (Perkins) 40 for sale.  It was in running condition when I pulled it from our 1970 Nic 38 for a re-power.  The best part is that it has a freshly rebuilt Paragon transmission.  This was the set-up our Nic 38 came with originally.  If you are interested please contact me directly.  I would be glad to sell separately or together.
                   
                  Thanks,
                  Charles
                  Nic 38 “Rampant”
                   
                  From: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com [mailto:campernicholson@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allen.5549
                  Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 11:56 AM
                  To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [campernicholson] Hydraulic pump problems
                   
                   
                  We have a '76 CN35 hull number 130 with a Perkins 40 HP connected to
                  a hydraulic pump that the drive shaft is connected to. We purchased her in Feb. 2009. Within 30 days the front seal in the pump failed.
                  We had the pump rebuilt at that time. Everything has been fine since then. This weekend the front seal is bad again. I have no idea how many hours the engine has so instead of trying to get the pump rebuilt again I'm considering repowering and getting away from the hydraulics. I would like to see how some else accomplished this. What I'm having trouble working through is the shaft exits that the aft end of the keel. How/where would you install the engine to match the existing shaft location?

                  Thank you,
                  Allen
                • Linda Lane Thornton
                  Hi Allen When we had a similar problem in Panama a few years back we got a new pump from Dymatic Inc in Chicago at a cost of US$637.  It was a Denison Pump
                  Message 8 of 11 , Apr 2, 2013
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                    Hi Allen
                    When we had a similar problem in Panama a few years back we got a new pump from Dymatic Inc in Chicago at a cost of US$637.  It was a Denison Pump T6CMB121R**C1, Code 024-44805-0.
                    Hope this helps
                    Linda Lane Thornton, Nic 35 Hull No 66 Coromandel

                    --- On Sun, 3/31/13, allen.5549 <allen.5549@...> wrote:

                    From: allen.5549 <allen.5549@...>
                    Subject: [campernicholson] Hydraulic pump problems
                    To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Sunday, March 31, 2013, 8:56 AM

                    We have a '76 CN35 hull number 130 with a Perkins 40 HP connected to
                    a hydraulic pump that the drive shaft is connected to. We purchased her in Feb. 2009. Within 30 days the front seal in the pump failed.
                    We had the pump rebuilt at that time. Everything has been fine since then. This weekend the front seal is bad again. I have no idea how many hours the engine has so instead of trying to get the pump rebuilt again I'm considering repowering and getting away from the hydraulics. I would like to see how some else accomplished this. What I'm having trouble working through is the shaft exits that the aft end of the keel. How/where would you install the engine to match the existing shaft location?

                    Thank you,
                    Allen 




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                  • Allen LoCicero
                    Linda, That s really a pleasent surprise...the yard wants to charge me $800.00 to re-rebuild (no typo) our pump.   From: Linda Lane Thornton
                    Message 9 of 11 , Apr 2, 2013
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                      Linda,
                      That's really a pleasent surprise...the yard wants to charge me $800.00 to re-rebuild (no typo) our pump.
                       

                      From: Linda Lane Thornton <lindalanethornton@...>
                      To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 11:03 AM
                      Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Hydraulic pump problems - New Pump
                       
                      Hi Allen
                      When we had a similar problem in Panama a few years back we got a new pump from Dymatic Inc in Chicago at a cost of US$637.  It was a Denison Pump T6CMB121R**C1, Code 024-44805-0.
                      Hope this helps
                      Linda Lane Thornton, Nic 35 Hull No 66 Coromandel --- On Sun, 3/31/13, allen.5549 <allen.5549@...> wrote:

                      From: allen.5549 <allen.5549@...>
                      Subject: [campernicholson] Hydraulic pump problems
                      To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Sunday, March 31, 2013, 8:56 AM

                      We have a '76 CN35 hull number 130 with a Perkins 40 HP connected to a hydraulic pump that the drive shaft is connected to. We purchased her in Feb. 2009. Within 30 days the front seal in the pump failed. We had the pump rebuilt at that time. Everything has been fine since then. This weekend the front seal is bad again. I have no idea how many hours the engine has so instead of trying to get the pump rebuilt again I'm considering repowering and getting away from the hydraulics. I would like to see how some else accomplished this. What I'm having trouble working through is the shaft exits that the aft end of the keel. How/where would you install the engine to match the existing shaft location? Thank you, Allen  ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/campernicholson/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/campernicholson/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     http://us.mc1605.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=campernicholson-digest@yahoogroups.com     http://us.mc1605.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=campernicholson-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     http://us.mc1605.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=campernicholson-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    • ralpharnesen
                      Dear Allen, I changed out my Perkins for a Beta 1505, 37.5 HP and had the company put on a Parker hydraulic pump which fit right in. I had to drill and tap new
                      Message 10 of 11 , Apr 3, 2013
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                        Dear Allen,
                         
                        I changed out my Perkins for a Beta 1505, 37.5 HP and had the company put on a Parker hydraulic pump which fit right in. I had to drill and tap new engine mount holes but it fit fine. It also saved so weight. I am not sure but I think the hydraulic pump makes a little more noise than the origonal. I have been sailing it since about 2006 and still going fine.
                        Look around and see if someone will mate a more modern pump to a new engine, it might be a better alternative.
                         
                        Ralph Arnesen
                        Argonaut of Rhu #8 
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Allen LoCicero <allen.5549@...>
                        To: campernicholson <campernicholson@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 2:35
                        Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Hydraulic pump problems

                         
                        Charles,
                        Thank you for your offer. We hadn't really thought about something other than new. That gives us another option. 
                         
                        Allen

                        From: Charles Popenoe <chas@...>
                        To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 5:05 PM
                        Subject: RE: [campernicholson] Hydraulic pump problems
                         
                        Hi Allen,
                         
                        If it’s any use, I have a Westerbeke (Perkins) 40 for sale.  It was in running condition when I pulled it from our 1970 Nic 38 for a re-power.  The best part is that it has a freshly rebuilt Paragon transmission.  This was the set-up our Nic 38 came with originally.  If you are interested please contact me directly.  I would be glad to sell separately or together.
                         
                        Thanks,
                        Charles
                        Nic 38 “Rampant”
                         
                        From: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com [mailto:campernicholson@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allen.5549
                        Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 11:56 AM
                        To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [campernicholson] Hydraulic pump problems
                         
                         
                        We have a '76 CN35 hull number 130 with a Perkins 40 HP connected to
                        a hydraulic pump that the drive shaft is connected to. We purchased her in Feb. 2009. Within 30 days the front seal in the pump failed.
                        We had the pump rebuilt at that time. Everything has been fine since then. This weekend the front seal is bad again. I have no idea how many hours the engine has so instead of trying to get the pump rebuilt again I'm considering repowering and getting away from the hydraulics. I would like to see how some else accomplished this. What I'm having trouble working through is the shaft exits that the aft end of the keel. How/where would you install the engine to match the existing shaft location?

                        Thank you,
                        Allen
                      • Allen LoCicero
                        My second boat was an Alberg 30 which had an Atomic 4. I repowered it with a Beta Marine 20. We like the Beta Marine engine as well. From: arnesenr@aol.com
                        Message 11 of 11 , Apr 5, 2013
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                          My second boat was an Alberg 30 which had an Atomic 4. I repowered it with a Beta Marine 20. We like the Beta Marine engine as well.

                          From: "arnesenr@..." <arnesenr@...>
                          To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2013 6:33 PM
                          Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Hydraulic pump problems
                           
                          Dear Allen,
                           
                          I changed out my Perkins for a Beta 1505, 37.5 HP and had the company put on a Parker hydraulic pump which fit right in. I had to drill and tap new engine mount holes but it fit fine. It also saved so weight. I am not sure but I think the hydraulic pump makes a little more noise than the origonal. I have been sailing it since about 2006 and still going fine.
                          Look around and see if someone will mate a more modern pump to a new engine, it might be a better alternative.
                           
                          Ralph Arnesen
                          Argonaut of Rhu #8 
                          -----Original Message----- From: Allen LoCicero <allen.5549@...> To: campernicholson <campernicholson@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 2:35 Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Hydraulic pump problems
                           
                          Charles,
                          Thank you for your offer. We hadn't really thought about something other than new. That gives us another option. 
                           
                          Allen

                          From: Charles Popenoe <chas@...>
                          To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 5:05 PM
                          Subject: RE: [campernicholson] Hydraulic pump problems
                           
                          Hi Allen,
                           
                          If it’s any use, I have a Westerbeke (Perkins) 40 for sale.  It was in running condition when I pulled it from our 1970 Nic 38 for a re-power.  The best part is that it has a freshly rebuilt Paragon transmission.  This was the set-up our Nic 38 came with originally.  If you are interested please contact me directly.  I would be glad to sell separately or together.
                           
                          Thanks,
                          Charles
                          Nic 38 “Rampant”
                           
                          From: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com [mailto:campernicholson@yahoogroups.com?] On Behalf Of allen.5549
                          Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2013 11:56 AM
                          To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [campernicholson] Hydraulic pump problems
                           
                           
                          We have a '76 CN35 hull number 130 with a Perkins 40 HP connected to a hydraulic pump that the drive shaft is connected to. We purchased her in Feb. 2009. Within 30 days the front seal in the pump failed. We had the pump rebuilt at that time. Everything has been fine since then. This weekend the front seal is bad again. I have no idea how many hours the engine has so instead of trying to get the pump rebuilt again I'm considering repowering and getting away from the hydraulics. I would like to see how some else accomplished this. What I'm having trouble working through is the shaft exits that the aft end of the keel. How/where would you install the engine to match the existing shaft location? Thank you, Allen
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