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Re: Refit Costs

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  • b_a_t_e_a_u
    I am about 90% complete of a complete rebuild of a 1977 Nic 35. To list just some of the tasks I have done so far, remove underwater gelcoat and barrier coat
    Message 1 of 30 , Jan 15, 2013
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      I am about 90% complete of a complete rebuild of a 1977 Nic 35. To list just some of the tasks I have done so far, remove underwater gelcoat and barrier coat the hull with West System Epoxy, all new Blakes sea cocks, rebuild the rudder, removed every deck fitting and under-bored every entry and fill with epoxy (+micro-ballons), awlgrip spray job for deck and hull, new teak toe rails, cabin top rails, new full teak cockpit, new SS bow roller for delta anchor, re-chrome lite frames and re-bed glass lites, re-bed all deck hardware, awlgrip original mast, re-rig, new mast electronics, new SS rear frame and pushpit with a custom hard bimini with 200W flexi solar panels over, new SS swim platform and teak platform, all new electrics, new interior woodwork by rebuilding the chart table to take 600 Ah batteries in base, new electrics console and wiring, new galley with a custom GRP fridge and freezer, new cooker, all new LED lights in and out, new walnut salon table with storage base for 20 bottles of wine, refaced all bulkheads as panelled walnut, timber trim and cabinetwork and woodwork using all American black walnut, new head linings and unfortunately much much more.

      Its getting a bit boring describing all I have done now but basically it is a new boat. I did not do this to resell just in case you were wondering. I hope it lasts me another 20-30 years after this work as I did this not to sit in a marina or motor in the Med. Just in case you were wondering I did this work all myself so I am a bit experienced now. My original trade was a staircase maker so woodwork is my thing. My father was a wooden boat builder and I wanted to build a boat. In hind sight I think building would have been simpler as when you rebuild it is difficult to know where to stop.

      The boat I started with was in poor condition the deck was dry, the engine had been rebuilt. The galley came out because I wanted a fridge freezer. My wife is not a keen sailer but a keen traveller so I needed to bribe her to come aboard and G&T without ice does not work. She likes the destinations but not the journey so I have a boat that is easy to single hand, is a good sea boat, classic and timeless. I installed powerful and self sustaining electrics for comfort. The old Nic ice box and galley was a full GRP moulded install and to modify it all has to come out hence the new galley to get the fridge freezer. I wanted to find a way to get 600Ah of battery so the chart table was rebuilt to hold a pair of Rolls deep cycles, the v-berth head linings were coming down so rebuild the v-berth with all the comforts of a boudoir, 12V LED TV in the anchor locker door, cupboards, reading lights (LED) etc. The heads only needed repainting but we now needed a black water tank and wether we like it or not we will face black and grey water tanks so get ready, so I am now ready. My Nic did not have a hatch in the salon and I wanted that so in the process the head linings had to be redone. When you peel it all back you find the crappy job previous owners have done, the leaks and the rot and you have to fix it all up. When doing the lite frames you re-bed the glass to solve the lite leaks and when you do you will probably find the need to fix up the woodwork (rot) and add new vinyl linings that roll under the lites. Big job. When you rerig you take a close look at the chainplates and you go, they are full of hairline cracks so I best replace now and to get them out you have to remove your internal salon cupboards. You then stand back say I may as well rebuild all the woodwork now and then that is it all. Before you know it, it is a new boat and you dont want to see the receipts of find a calculator. This leads to that and before you know it where do you stop.

      But I have a beautiful basically new boat!!!

      My problem is I am a perfectionist and I am my own most difficult customer. Needless to say it cost a bomb. In the middle of the Pacific if I have trouble I should know what to do and I will be able to improvise (jury rig) anything on the boat 'cause I did it. I will post photos some day. This has taken 4 years of my life. Actually I enjoyed the whole thing but dont tell my wife.

      Graham

      --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, "alveng" wrote:
      >
      > I have done a complete refit of my boat.
      > It all depends on the boats condition. I would have checked the hull and deck condition. These things is hard to see, and will cost you a lot. I have done it, and is satisfyed. But it costs.
      > Check for moist in the balsa core (deck) andt the hull/deck joint. If this is okay, well then you can get far with 20000.
      > Engine, tiller, mast and rigging is easy to check.
      > The Nic35 is a strong build, and will give you wonderful time under sail.....
      > If you want more spesific details from my rebuild - please send me an email at torbjorn.alveng@... and you can have the spesifications.
      > I have replaced engine, replaced mast, rig and sails, rebuild deck and footlist, new fastenings for stayers and so on.......the boat is now in "mint condition" as we call it in Norway....
      >
      >
      > --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, "ian611@" wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi All,
      > >
      > > Can anyone advise me what the refit cost would be for a Nic 35? I know it's potentially "how long is a piece of string?" type question but would appreciate some advice.
      > > I'm looking at a couple of boats and the Nic 35 is top of my list. Would £20000 cut it?
      > >
      > > Thanks
      > >
      >
    • b_a_t_e_a_u
      I redid mine Jim and the only difficult part is the stern piece as the curve and roll may require you to laminate it from thinner sticks as I did. There was
      Message 2 of 30 , Jan 15, 2013
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        I redid mine Jim and the only difficult part is the stern piece as the curve and roll may require you to laminate it from thinner sticks as I did. There was one whole day to make that piece up. I laminated it up in-situ on the stern with 50,000 clamps bending 3 thinner pieces of wood and lots of west epoxy. When I took it off 3 days latter and planned it up by hand, you had to look really hard to see it is not one piece of wood. You may get away with not laminating if you bend it from very thin wood but I redid my toe rails with 50 x 25 finished teak which is heavier than standard and offered no flex. By the way a steam box does not work on teak just in case you haven't tried.

        As a matter of interest rather than housing the toe rail over the hull deck seal I bedded it flat onto a thick coat of Sika 298 which is the brown wood glue used to stick down teak deck. It acts as both a sealant and adhesive. I made the toe rails up into a single length for each side by end joining using a finger joint cutter on a router. The finger joint increases the size of the glue line and improves hold with a mix of mechanical and glue holding power. I the bored 15mm holes 10mm deep for plugs using a forstner bit. Bought a plug cutter that made plugs to match the 15mm holes and made the plugs from offcuts. We set the toe rail on with screws at 450mm centres, starting from the bow with a rope slowly pulling the rail inwards.

        You have to watch that you don't wedge the hull deck joint apart when you use big screws down from the toe rail. When hit the first 5 threads of each screw on a grinder to put a flat on one side of each screw. Using a screw gun we put them in by going back wards and forwards with the screw to cause it to cut a thread into the pilot hole we drilled and hence not wedge.

        Pretty happy with the job. Decided to not do brightwork over the teak even though I would like to show off the job. The rails are now going teak grey. Getting them off in the future may be a problem with the adhesive but I don't want leaks. Make sure you have no cracks in the hull to deck joint when you redo as you may need to fix that in the whole job.

        Graham

        --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, JIM TEIPEN wrote:
        >
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        > Hi Mark,
        > I noticed that you mentioned new toe rails in your list of boat projects. I've been considering replacing the toe rails on my 35. I'm wondering if you did this yourself and if you would share some details of how you accomplished it.
        > Regards
        > Jim TeipenAlegriaCN 35 - 68
        >
        > To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
        > From: tornado186@...
        > Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2013 20:38:02 +0000
        > Subject: [campernicholson] Re: Refit Costs
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        > > There's an applciable refrain in the song "Adicted to Love" --
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        > > "She's so fine, there's no tellin' where the money went . . ."
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        > We have been working on our 1984 C&N 58 ketch for 7 years now. It was damaged in Hurricane IVAN while docked at the PO's in Lauderdale. It also suffered a lot of deferred maintenance. We are over 100 kilobucks now. Work included a bottom peel DIY and all new fairing; new CB; DIY new rudder; new stanchions; new Awl Grip from water line to rails; new rails; new #1 jib; repair old sails; masts srtipped and repainted; new electronics; new navionics; replace all IC lights with LED; 2 new battery banks; new charge controllers; new solar aray; regalvanized chain; new anchor; new-to-us rib & motor; rebuild all hatches; rebuild soggy decks; rebuild CB lift mechanism; install holding tank; install new complsting head; empty and clean all diesel tanks; new diesel tank piping system; new main battery box.
        >
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        > These are just the big ones. We are also adding stuff for serious cruising like dive equipment. As the song notes, "no tellin where it went" except I have a 10-page Excel sheet with details of every sheet of sandpaper.
        >
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        > THe good news for you is that it costs a lot less for a smaller boat.
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        > BTW - we are having a blast on this boat. We are cruising Lake Michigan for now and will retire and get the heck out of Dodge in two years.
        >
      • Peter Jørgensen
        Hi Graham Lot of hard work you´d done.... Hope you got the same satisfaction by doing the work as to enjoy this beautyfull boat after al the work. When i
        Message 3 of 30 , Jan 16, 2013
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          Hi Graham
          Lot of hard work you´d done.... Hope you got the same satisfaction by doing the work as to enjoy this beautyfull boat after al the work.
          When i had done some work on Addiena i can just sit back and enjoy it for hours and hours....wonderfull 
          Hope that you would share some photos of your big project.
           
          Peter    

          From: b_a_t_e_a_u <graham.horne@...>
          To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 12:31 AM
          Subject: [campernicholson] Re: Refit Costs
           
          I redid mine Jim and the only difficult part is the stern piece as the curve and roll may require you to laminate it from thinner sticks as I did. There was one whole day to make that piece up. I laminated it up in-situ on the stern with 50,000 clamps bending 3 thinner pieces of wood and lots of west epoxy. When I took it off 3 days latter and planned it up by hand, you had to look really hard to see it is not one piece of wood. You may get away with not laminating if you bend it from very thin wood but I redid my toe rails with 50 x 25 finished teak which is heavier than standard and offered no flex. By the way a steam box does not work on teak just in case you haven't tried.

          As a matter of interest rather than housing the toe rail over the hull deck seal I bedded it flat onto a thick coat of Sika 298 which is the brown wood glue used to stick down teak deck. It acts as both a sealant and adhesive. I made the toe rails up into a single length for each side by end joining using a finger joint cutter on a router. The finger joint increases the size of the glue line and improves hold with a mix of mechanical and glue holding power. I the bored 15mm holes 10mm deep for plugs using a forstner bit. Bought a plug cutter that made plugs to match the 15mm holes and made the plugs from offcuts. We set the toe rail on with screws at 450mm centres, starting from the bow with a rope slowly pulling the rail inwards.

          You have to watch that you don't wedge the hull deck joint apart when you use big screws down from the toe rail. When hit the first 5 threads of each screw on a grinder to put a flat on one side of each screw. Using a screw gun we put them in by going back wards and forwards with the screw to cause it to cut a thread into the pilot hole we drilled and hence not wedge.

          Pretty happy with the job. Decided to not do brightwork over the teak even though I would like to show off the job. The rails are now going teak grey. Getting them off in the future may be a problem with the adhesive but I don't want leaks. Make sure you have no cracks in the hull to deck joint when you redo as you may need to fix that in the whole job.

          Graham

          --- In mailto:campernicholson%40yahoogroups.com, JIM TEIPEN wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Hi Mark,
          > I noticed that you mentioned new toe rails in your list of boat projects. I've been considering replacing the toe rails on my 35. I'm wondering if you did this yourself and if you would share some details of how you accomplished it.
          > Regards
          > Jim TeipenAlegriaCN 35 - 68
          >
          > To: mailto:campernicholson%40yahoogroups.com
          > From: tornado186@...
          > Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2013 20:38:02 +0000
          > Subject: [campernicholson] Re: Refit Costs
          >
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          > >
          >
          > > There's an applciable refrain in the song "Adicted to Love" --
          >
          > >
          >
          > > "She's so fine, there's no tellin' where the money went . . ."
          >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > We have been working on our 1984 C&N 58 ketch for 7 years now. It was damaged in Hurricane IVAN while docked at the PO's in Lauderdale. It also suffered a lot of deferred maintenance. We are over 100 kilobucks now. Work included a bottom peel DIY and all new fairing; new CB; DIY new rudder; new stanchions; new Awl Grip from water line to rails; new rails; new #1 jib; repair old sails; masts srtipped and repainted; new electronics; new navionics; replace all IC lights with LED; 2 new battery banks; new charge controllers; new solar aray; regalvanized chain; new anchor; new-to-us rib & motor; rebuild all hatches; rebuild soggy decks; rebuild CB lift mechanism; install holding tank; install new complsting head; empty and clean all diesel tanks; new diesel tank piping system; new main battery box.
          >
          >
          >
          > These are just the big ones. We are also adding stuff for serious cruising like dive equipment. As the song notes, "no tellin where it went" except I have a 10-page Excel sheet with details of every sheet of sandpaper.
          >
          >
          >
          > THe good news for you is that it costs a lot less for a smaller boat.
          >
          >
          >
          > BTW - we are having a blast on this boat. We are cruising Lake Michigan for now and will retire and get the heck out of Dodge in two years.
          >

        • Peter Jørgensen
          ....... just a little reminder. Addiena is still for sale   Peter ________________________________ From: Peter Jørgensen To:
          Message 4 of 30 , Feb 2, 2013
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            ....... just a little reminder. Addiena is still for sale*;) winking
             
            Peter

            From: Peter Jørgensen <peterschoett@...>
            To: "campernicholson@yahoogroups.com" <campernicholson@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 6:50 PM
            Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Re: Refit Costs
             
            Hi Graham
            Lot of hard work you´d done.... Hope you got the same satisfaction by doing the work as to enjoy this beautyfull boat after al the work.
            When i had done some work on Addiena i can just sit back and enjoy it for hours and hours....wonderfull 
            Hope that you would share some photos of your big project.
             
            Peter    

            From: b_a_t_e_a_u <graham.horne@...>
            To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 12:31 AM
            Subject: [campernicholson] Re: Refit Costs
             
            I redid mine Jim and the only difficult part is the stern piece as the curve and roll may require you to laminate it from thinner sticks as I did. There was one whole day to make that piece up. I laminated it up in-situ on the stern with 50,000 clamps bending 3 thinner pieces of wood and lots of west epoxy. When I took it off 3 days latter and planned it up by hand, you had to look really hard to see it is not one piece of wood. You may get away with not laminating if you bend it from very thin wood but I redid my toe rails with 50 x 25 finished teak which is heavier than standard and offered no flex. By the way a steam box does not work on teak just in case you haven't tried. As a matter of interest rather than housing the toe rail over the hull deck seal I bedded it flat onto a thick coat of Sika 298 which is the brown wood glue used to stick down teak deck. It acts as both a sealant and adhesive. I made the toe rails up into a single length for each side by end joining using a finger joint cutter on a router. The finger joint increases the size of the glue line and improves hold with a mix of mechanical and glue holding power. I the bored 15mm holes 10mm deep for plugs using a forstner bit. Bought a plug cutter that made plugs to match the 15mm holes and made the plugs from offcuts. We set the toe rail on with screws at 450mm centres, starting from the bow with a rope slowly pulling the rail inwards. You have to watch that you don't wedge the hull deck joint apart when you use big screws down from the toe rail. When hit the first 5 threads of each screw on a grinder to put a flat on one side of each screw. Using a screw gun we put them in by going back wards and forwards with the screw to cause it to cut a thread into the pilot hole we drilled and hence not wedge. Pretty happy with the job. Decided to not do brightwork over the teak even though I would like to show off the job. The rails are now going teak grey. Getting them off in the future may be a problem with the adhesive but I don't want leaks. Make sure you have no cracks in the hull to deck joint when you redo as you may need to fix that in the whole job. Graham
            --- In mailto:campernicholson%40yahoogroups.com, JIM TEIPEN wrote: > > > > > > Hi Mark, > I noticed that you mentioned new toe rails in your list of boat projects. I've been considering replacing the toe rails on my 35. I'm wondering if you did this yourself and if you would share some details of how you accomplished it. > Regards > Jim TeipenAlegriaCN 35 - 68 > > To: mailto:campernicholson%40yahoogroups.com > From: tornado186@... > Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2013 20:38:02 +0000 > Subject: [campernicholson] Re: Refit Costs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's an applciable refrain in the song "Adicted to Love" -- > > > > > > "She's so fine, there's no tellin' where the money went . . ." > > > > > > > We have been working on our 1984 C&N 58 ketch for 7 years now. It was damaged in Hurricane IVAN while docked at the PO's in Lauderdale. It also suffered a lot of deferred maintenance. We are over 100 kilobucks now. Work included a bottom peel DIY and all new fairing; new CB; DIY new rudder; new stanchions; new Awl Grip from water line to rails; new rails; new #1 jib; repair old sails; masts srtipped and repainted; new electronics; new navionics; replace all IC lights with LED; 2 new battery banks; new charge controllers; new solar aray; regalvanized chain; new anchor; new-to-us rib & motor; rebuild all hatches; rebuild soggy decks; rebuild CB lift mechanism; install holding tank; install new complsting head; empty and clean all diesel tanks; new diesel tank piping system; new main battery box. > > > > These are just the big ones. We are also adding stuff for serious cruising like dive equipment. As the song notes, "no tellin where it went" except I have a 10-page Excel sheet with details of every sheet of sandpaper. > > > > THe good news for you is that it costs a lot less for a smaller boat. > > > > BTW - we are having a blast on this boat. We are cruising Lake Michigan for now and will retire and get the heck out of Dodge in two years. >
          • IAN ADAMS
            Peter,   I d appreciate if you could send me some more photos if you have them, she looks in lovely condition.   Thanks,   Ian From: Peter Jørgensen
            Message 5 of 30 , Feb 3, 2013
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              Peter,
               
              I'd appreciate if you could send me some more photos if you have them, she looks in lovely condition.
               
              Thanks,
               
              Ian

              From: Peter Jørgensen <peterschoett@...>
              To: "campernicholson@yahoogroups.com" <campernicholson@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, 3 February 2013, 5:37
              Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Re: Refit Costs
               
              ....... just a little reminder. Addiena is still for sale*;) winking
               
              Peter

              From: Peter Jørgensen <peterschoett@...>
              To: "campernicholson@yahoogroups.com" <campernicholson@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 6:50 PM
              Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Re: Refit Costs
               
              Hi Graham
              Lot of hard work you´d done.... Hope you got the same satisfaction by doing the work as to enjoy this beautyfull boat after al the work.
              When i had done some work on Addiena i can just sit back and enjoy it for hours and hours....wonderfull 
              Hope that you would share some photos of your big project.
               
              Peter    

              From: b_a_t_e_a_u <graham.horne@...>
              To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 12:31 AM
              Subject: [campernicholson] Re: Refit Costs
               
              I redid mine Jim and the only difficult part is the stern piece as the curve and roll may require you to laminate it from thinner sticks as I did. There was one whole day to make that piece up. I laminated it up in-situ on the stern with 50,000 clamps bending 3 thinner pieces of wood and lots of west epoxy. When I took it off 3 days latter and planned it up by hand, you had to look really hard to see it is not one piece of wood. You may get away with not laminating if you bend it from very thin wood but I redid my toe rails with 50 x 25 finished teak which is heavier than standard and offered no flex. By the way a steam box does not work on teak just in case you haven't tried. As a matter of interest rather than housing the toe rail over the hull deck seal I bedded it flat onto a thick coat of Sika 298 which is the brown wood glue used to stick down teak deck. It acts as both a sealant and adhesive. I made the toe rails up into a single length for each side by end joining using a finger joint cutter on a router. The finger joint increases the size of the glue line and improves hold with a mix of mechanical and glue holding power. I the bored 15mm holes 10mm deep for plugs using a forstner bit. Bought a plug cutter that made plugs to match the 15mm holes and made the plugs from offcuts. We set the toe rail on with screws at 450mm centres, starting from the bow with a rope slowly pulling the rail inwards. You have to watch that you don't wedge the hull deck joint apart when you use big screws down from the toe rail. When hit the first 5 threads of each screw on a grinder to put a flat on one side of each screw. Using a screw gun we put them in by going back wards and forwards with the screw to cause it to cut a thread into the pilot hole we drilled and hence not wedge. Pretty happy with the job. Decided to not do brightwork over the teak even though I would like to show off the job. The rails are now going teak grey. Getting them off in the future may be a problem with the adhesive but I don't want leaks. Make sure you have no cracks in the hull to deck joint when you redo as you may need to fix that in the whole job. Graham --- In mailto:campernicholson%40yahoogroups.com, JIM TEIPEN wrote: > > > > > > Hi Mark, > I noticed that you mentioned new toe rails in your list of boat projects. I've been considering replacing the toe rails on my 35. I'm wondering if you did this yourself and if you would share some details of how you accomplished it. > Regards > Jim TeipenAlegriaCN 35 - 68 > > To: mailto:campernicholson%40yahoogroups.com > From: tornado186@... > Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2013 20:38:02 +0000 > Subject: [campernicholson] Re: Refit Costs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's an applciable refrain in the song "Adicted to Love" -- > > > > > > "She's so fine, there's no tellin' where the money went . . ." > > > > > > > We have been working on our 1984 C&N 58 ketch for 7 years now. It was damaged in Hurricane IVAN while docked at the PO's in Lauderdale. It also suffered a lot of deferred maintenance. We are over 100 kilobucks now. Work included a bottom peel DIY and all new fairing; new CB; DIY new rudder; new stanchions; new Awl Grip from water line to rails; new rails; new #1 jib; repair old sails; masts srtipped and repainted; new electronics; new navionics; replace all IC lights with LED; 2 new battery banks; new charge controllers; new solar aray; regalvanized chain; new anchor; new-to-us rib & motor; rebuild all hatches; rebuild soggy decks; rebuild CB lift mechanism; install holding tank; install new complsting head; empty and clean all diesel tanks; new diesel tank piping system; new main battery box. > > > > These are just the big ones. We are also adding stuff for serious cruising like dive equipment. As the song notes, "no tellin where it went" except I have a 10-page Excel sheet with details of every sheet of sandpaper. > > > > THe good news for you is that it costs a lot less for a smaller boat. > > > > BTW - we are having a blast on this boat. We are cruising Lake Michigan for now and will retire and get the heck out of Dodge in two years. >
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