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Re: [campernicholson] Engine removal and refit for Nic 35

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  • Graham Norbury
    Roger, Usually getting an engine out from the engine room requires either a lifting rig (4x4 across companionway?) or lots of muscle, depending what you can
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 25, 2012
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      Roger,

      Usually getting an engine out from the engine room requires either a lifting rig (4x4 across companionway?) or lots of muscle, depending what you can fit and rig.  Try to get some plywood underneath so you can slide it without having to fully pick it up.

      Graham

      On 08/25/2012 5:21 AM, rogerbentonuk wrote:
       

      Hi
      We are thinking about changing our engine this winter from the OM636 to a Betamarine 35 or 43. We were hoping to undertake much of the work ourselves. As part of this process the old engine will have to be slid back into the main cabin space before it is lifted out, and the reverse for the new engine.

      Does anyone have any advice on how to achieve this?

      Any other advice would also be appreciated!

      We were also planning on sound proofing the engine bay, again any advice on this would be appreciated?

      BTW we have a hydraulic drive.

      Many thanks
      Roger and Hilary

      Doucier Nic 35#86


    • gall.john.j@gmail.com
      A member did this and posted pictures and a description on the site. Search the messages Sent from my iPhone
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 25, 2012
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        A member did this and posted pictures and a description on the site.  Search the messages

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Aug 25, 2012, at 8:50 AM, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...> wrote:

         

        Roger,

        Usually getting an engine out from the engine room requires either a lifting rig (4x4 across companionway?) or lots of muscle, depending what you can fit and rig.  Try to get some plywood underneath so you can slide it without having to fully pick it up.

        Graham

        On 08/25/2012 5:21 AM, rogerbentonuk wrote:
         

        Hi
        We are thinking about changing our engine this winter from the OM636 to a Betamarine 35 or 43. We were hoping to undertake much of the work ourselves. As part of this process the old engine will have to be slid back into the main cabin space before it is lifted out, and the reverse for the new engine.

        Does anyone have any advice on how to achieve this?

        Any other advice would also be appreciated!

        We were also planning on sound proofing the engine bay, again any advice on this would be appreciated?

        BTW we have a hydraulic drive.

        Many thanks
        Roger and Hilary

        Doucier Nic 35#86


      • Albert Boyce
        alongside I I had my Perkins 4-108 taken out last year. As Graham said you need a 4x4 across the companionway. The guys used a come along to move the engine
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 25, 2012
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          alongside I



          I had my Perkins 4-108 taken out last year.  As Graham said you need a 4x4 across the companionway.  The guys used a come along to move the engine into the main cabin.  I took the hydraulic pump off and disassembled the Carole

          Albert Boyce 
          443 831 1860

          Sent from my iPhone 

          On Aug 25, 2012, at 8:50 AM, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...> wrote:

           

          Roger,

          Usually getting an engine out from the engine room requires either a lifting rig (4x4 across companionway?) or lots of muscle, depending what you can fit and rig.  Try to get some plywood underneath so you can slide it without having to fully pick it up.

          Graham

          On 08/25/2012 5:21 AM, rogerbentonuk wrote:
           

          Hi
          We are thinking about changing our engine this winter from the OM636 to a Betamarine 35 or 43. We were hoping to undertake much of the work ourselves. As part of this process the old engine will have to be slid back into the main cabin space before it is lifted out, and the reverse for the new engine.

          Does anyone have any advice on how to achieve this?

          Any other advice would also be appreciated!

          We were also planning on sound proofing the engine bay, again any advice on this would be appreciated?

          BTW we have a hydraulic drive.

          Many thanks
          Roger and Hilary

          Doucier Nic 35#86


        • JOHN LARSON
          Russ Anderson took his Perkins out a couple years ago, and took some pictures of the process. As I remember, he used the boom to do at least some
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 25, 2012
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            Russ Anderson took his Perkins out a couple years ago, and took some  pictures of the  process.   As I remember,  he  used  the  boom  to  do at least  some  of the  lifting.  I'm not sure if  the  pictures are still posted on the site.

            John Larson
            CN 35-85, Passport


            To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
            From: Albert_Boyce@...
            Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 10:13:47 -0400
            Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Engine removal and refit for Nic 35

             

            alongside I



            I had my Perkins 4-108 taken out last year.  As Graham said you need a 4x4 across the companionway.  The guys used a come along to move the engine into the main cabin.  I took the hydraulic pump off and disassembled the Carole

            Albert Boyce 
            443 831 1860

            Sent from my iPhone 

            On Aug 25, 2012, at 8:50 AM, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...> wrote:

             
            Roger,

            Usually getting an engine out from the engine room requires either a lifting rig (4x4 across companionway?) or lots of muscle, depending what you can fit and rig.  Try to get some plywood underneath so you can slide it without having to fully pick it up.

            Graham


            On 08/25/2012 5:21 AM, rogerbentonuk wrote:
             
            Hi
            We are thinking about changing our engine this winter from the OM636 to a Betamarine 35 or 43. We were hoping to undertake much of the work ourselves. As part of this process the old engine will have to be slid back into the main cabin space before it is lifted out, and the reverse for the new engine.

            Does anyone have any advice on how to achieve this?

            Any other advice would also be appreciated!

            We were also planning on sound proofing the engine bay, again any advice on this would be appreciated?

            BTW we have a hydraulic drive.

            Many thanks
            Roger and Hilary

            Doucier Nic 35#86





          • John Gall
            In the photo section it is the very last group of pictures under Yankee 1974 CN35 #99 john
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 25, 2012
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              In the photo section it is the very last group of pictures under


              Yankee 1974 CN35 #99


              john

              On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 10:54 AM, JOHN LARSON <jsl-sll@...> wrote:
               

              Russ Anderson took his Perkins out a couple years ago, and took some  pictures of the  process.   As I remember,  he  used  the  boom  to  do at least  some  of the  lifting.  I'm not sure if  the  pictures are still posted on the site.

              John Larson
              CN 35-85, Passport


              To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
              From: Albert_Boyce@...
              Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 10:13:47 -0400
              Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Engine removal and refit for Nic 35


               

              alongside I



              I had my Perkins 4-108 taken out last year.  As Graham said you need a 4x4 across the companionway.  The guys used a come along to move the engine into the main cabin.  I took the hydraulic pump off and disassembled the Carole

              Albert Boyce 

              Sent from my iPhone 

              On Aug 25, 2012, at 8:50 AM, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...> wrote:

               
              Roger,

              Usually getting an engine out from the engine room requires either a lifting rig (4x4 across companionway?) or lots of muscle, depending what you can fit and rig.  Try to get some plywood underneath so you can slide it without having to fully pick it up.

              Graham


              On 08/25/2012 5:21 AM, rogerbentonuk wrote:
               
              Hi
              We are thinking about changing our engine this winter from the OM636 to a Betamarine 35 or 43. We were hoping to undertake much of the work ourselves. As part of this process the old engine will have to be slid back into the main cabin space before it is lifted out, and the reverse for the new engine.

              Does anyone have any advice on how to achieve this?

              Any other advice would also be appreciated!

              We were also planning on sound proofing the engine bay, again any advice on this would be appreciated?

              BTW we have a hydraulic drive.

              Many thanks
              Roger and Hilary

              Doucier Nic 35#86






            • Graham Norbury
              Be VERY careful moving an engine using the boom as a lifting beam. It is not designed to support any appreciable weight mid-section, and at the very least the
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 25, 2012
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                Be VERY careful moving an engine using the boom as a lifting beam.  It is not designed to support any appreciable weight mid-section, and at the very least the load should be taken on a halyard slung around the lifting point.

                An I-beam or heavy timber is a much better option.

                Graham

                On 08/25/2012 11:16 AM, John Gall wrote:
                 

                In the photo section it is the very last group of pictures under


                Yankee 1974 CN35 #99


                john

                On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 10:54 AM, JOHN LARSON <jsl-sll@...> wrote:
                 

                Russ Anderson took his Perkins out a couple years ago, and took some  pictures of the  process.   As I remember,  he  used  the  boom  to  do at least  some  of the  lifting.  I'm not sure if  the  pictures are still posted on the site.

                John Larson
                CN 35-85, Passport


                To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                From: Albert_Boyce@...
                Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 10:13:47 -0400
                Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Engine removal and refit for Nic 35


                 

                alongside I



                I had my Perkins 4-108 taken out last year.  As Graham said you need a 4x4 across the companionway.  The guys used a come along to move the engine into the main cabin.  I took the hydraulic pump off and disassembled the Carole

                Albert Boyce 

                Sent from my iPhone 

                On Aug 25, 2012, at 8:50 AM, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...> wrote:

                 
                Roger,

                Usually getting an engine out from the engine room requires either a lifting rig (4x4 across companionway?) or lots of muscle, depending what you can fit and rig.  Try to get some plywood underneath so you can slide it without having to fully pick it up.

                Graham


                On 08/25/2012 5:21 AM, rogerbentonuk wrote:
                 
                Hi
                We are thinking about changing our engine this winter from the OM636 to a Betamarine 35 or 43. We were hoping to undertake much of the work ourselves. As part of this process the old engine will have to be slid back into the main cabin space before it is lifted out, and the reverse for the new engine.

                Does anyone have any advice on how to achieve this?

                Any other advice would also be appreciated!

                We were also planning on sound proofing the engine bay, again any advice on this would be appreciated?

                BTW we have a hydraulic drive.

                Many thanks
                Roger and Hilary

                Doucier Nic 35#86







              • O. R. Armstrong
                Roger and Hilary, I see others have informed you that I removed the Perkins 4-108 from my CN35 hull #99 several years ago. As they noted, I posted a series of
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 25, 2012
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                  Roger and Hilary,

                    I see others have informed you that I removed the Perkins 4-108 from my CN35 hull #99 several years ago. As they noted, I posted a series of pictures in the photos section of this forum. While intimidating, the process was not difficult. The key piece of equipment was a small chain hoist. Working single-handedly was an advantage, as there isn't much room for a second pair of hands in those close quarters.

                    I considered re-powering, but was concerned that the torque and rpm characteristics of the Perkins must have been matched to the hydraulic pump,  hydraulic motor and propeller that had been selected by the naval architects at Camper-Nicholson. I decided to play it safe and re-build the Perkins. Graham Norbury might wish to opine on that issue.

                   I wrote an article in MSWord describing the process and would gladly send it you as an attachment to an e-mail, if you desire.

                    Russ Armstrong


                  On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 4:21 AM, rogerbentonuk <roger.benton@...> wrote:
                   

                  Hi
                  We are thinking about changing our engine this winter from the OM636 to a Betamarine 35 or 43. We were hoping to undertake much of the work ourselves. As part of this process the old engine will have to be slid back into the main cabin space before it is lifted out, and the reverse for the new engine.

                  Does anyone have any advice on how to achieve this?

                  Any other advice would also be appreciated!

                  We were also planning on sound proofing the engine bay, again any advice on this would be appreciated?

                  BTW we have a hydraulic drive.

                  Many thanks
                  Roger and Hilary

                  Doucier Nic 35#86




                  --
                  "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to commit violence on their behalf." ~ Attributed to George Orwell



                • Peter Jørgensen
                  ....when i toke out the engine (Seapanther) from Addiena i made a kind of platform, (in wooden planks), the same hight as the standard fiberfoundation the
                  Message 8 of 13 , Aug 25, 2012
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                    ....when i toke out the engine (Seapanther) from Addiena i made a kind of platform, (in wooden planks), the same hight as the standard fiberfoundation the engine stands on. Then i could juts draft the engine forward out on the planks. When draftet aprox 2 feet forward in the boat, we liftet the engine with a crane where i did the work, but better safe than sorry, so do yourself a favour using the right ecuipment for this job, the engine is after all 200 kg :) happy
                    Peter

                    From: O. R. Armstrong <russ.armstrong@...>
                    To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 5:53 PM
                    Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Engine removal and refit for Nic 35

                     
                    Roger and Hilary,

                      I see others have informed you that I removed the Perkins 4-108 from my CN35 hull #99 several years ago. As they noted, I posted a series of pictures in the photos section of this forum. While intimidating, the process was not difficult. The key piece of equipment was a small chain hoist. Working single-handedly was an advantage, as there isn't much room for a second pair of hands in those close quarters.

                      I considered re-powering, but was concerned that the torque and rpm characteristics of the Perkins must have been matched to the hydraulic pump,  hydraulic motor and propeller that had been selected by the naval architects at Camper-Nicholson. I decided to play it safe and re-build the Perkins. Graham Norbury might wish to opine on that issue.

                     I wrote an article in MSWord describing the process and would gladly send it you as an attachment to an e-mail, if you desire.

                      Russ Armstrong


                    On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 4:21 AM, rogerbentonuk <roger.benton@...> wrote:
                     
                    Hi
                    We are thinking about changing our engine this winter from the OM636 to a Betamarine 35 or 43. We were hoping to undertake much of the work ourselves. As part of this process the old engine will have to be slid back into the main cabin space before it is lifted out, and the reverse for the new engine.

                    Does anyone have any advice on how to achieve this?

                    Any other advice would also be appreciated!

                    We were also planning on sound proofing the engine bay, again any advice on this would be appreciated?

                    BTW we have a hydraulic drive.

                    Many thanks
                    Roger and Hilary

                    Doucier Nic 35#86




                    --
                    "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to commit violence on their behalf." ~ Attributed to George Orwell





                  • simon allard
                    Roger,   I put a Beta 35 in Blue Nava over the winter and have been very pleased with the results.   There is a photo file on the site documenting this
                    Message 9 of 13 , Aug 25, 2012
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                      Roger,
                       
                      I put a Beta 35 in Blue Nava over the winter and have been very pleased with the results.
                       
                      There is a photo file on the site documenting this project but if you would like to discuss by telephone then let me have your UK landline number and I will call you.
                       
                      Beta Marine's Technical Director Laurance Talbot really knows his stuff and I cannot recommend him more highly. He has past and present knowledge of Nicholsons as well and I worked very closely with him on my installation.
                      +44 1452 723492
                       
                      Regards
                      Simon
                      Blue Nava 35/177
                      From: rogerbentonuk <roger.benton@...>
                      To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Saturday, 25 August 2012, 10:21
                      Subject: [campernicholson] Engine removal and refit for Nic 35

                       
                      Hi
                      We are thinking about changing our engine this winter from the OM636 to a Betamarine 35 or 43. We were hoping to undertake much of the work ourselves. As part of this process the old engine will have to be slid back into the main cabin space before it is lifted out, and the reverse for the new engine.

                      Does anyone have any advice on how to achieve this?

                      Any other advice would also be appreciated!

                      We were also planning on sound proofing the engine bay, again any advice on this would be appreciated?

                      BTW we have a hydraulic drive.

                      Many thanks
                      Roger and Hilary

                      Doucier Nic 35#86



                    • tom1us2001a
                      Hi Roger, I removed the engine from Dream a couple of months ago to rebuild it. I can tell you of my experience with removal, although I dont have the
                      Message 10 of 13 , Aug 27, 2012
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                        Hi Roger,

                        I removed the engine from Dream a couple of months ago to rebuild it. I can tell you of my experience with removal, although I dont have the hydraulic transmission, so there may be differences as to what is in the way that needs to be removed. I had planned on using the boom and chain hoist and possibly building a form atop the companion way hatch as others have done but ended up using the yard crane instead.
                        Before lifting the engine I removed the transmission, exhaust, alternator, or anything that would/could be in the way and was easily removed, although the exhaust on a VW engine is not easily removed. I think the hatch is about 21" wide and the motor with exhaust is about 20" wide so I opted to remove the exhaust to make sure an easy passage out the hatch. By removing the transmission the engine is quite small and fits through the hatch just fine. I also removed the lower portion of the steps and a battery box. Total time to remove motor from start to finish was 2 days with me doing all the dismantling and the yard helping to lift out the motor. Lifting the motor went smooth. A load leveler was attached to the top of the motor (a device that lets you adjust the lift point over the motor) and then a 4" wide strap went up and out the hatch to the crane hook. The strap was against the stainless steel at the top of the companion way opening and then went at a 30° to the motor. No harm was done to the stainless from the soft lifting strap. I was prepared to use lots of towels to place between the strap and the stainless but none were needed. The crane operator would lift the motor about a 1/4" of an inch at a time. and the motor would be repositioned each time as it came forward. The motor is fairly light once the tranny, exhaust, alternator and stuff are removed so even though there was a lot of side pressure from the motor wanting to swing forward when lifted, it was easy to hold the back in place with a foot while lifting. This of course will put pressure off the lifting strap against the stainless at the top of the companion way as the strap bends around it, but in my case the soft strap did no harm. If you dont have stainless and only have a teak panel you may want to think of a way to protect the teak. Total crane time was about 15 minutes. They charged me for 30, I guess they had to warm it up and drive it over. I may have some photos somewhere of the engine being taken apart but I dont have any of the crane work (I was a little busy at that point). I plan to install the motor in reverse. Hope this helps.

                        Regards,

                        Tom
                        CN35-199 Dream


                        --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, "rogerbentonuk" <roger.benton@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi
                        > We are thinking about changing our engine this winter from the OM636 to a Betamarine 35 or 43. We were hoping to undertake much of the work ourselves. As part of this process the old engine will have to be slid back into the main cabin space before it is lifted out, and the reverse for the new engine.
                        >
                        > Does anyone have any advice on how to achieve this?
                        >
                        > Any other advice would also be appreciated!
                        >
                        > We were also planning on sound proofing the engine bay, again any advice on this would be appreciated?
                        >
                        > BTW we have a hydraulic drive.
                        >
                        > Many thanks
                        > Roger and Hilary
                        >
                        > Doucier Nic 35#86
                        >
                      • Jeffrey Moorman
                        Hi Roger and Hilary, I set out to rebuild the Perkins 4108/hydraulic drive on LaBoheme...I ended up installing a VOLVO Saildrive and I am very happy that I
                        Message 11 of 13 , Aug 27, 2012
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                          Hi Roger and Hilary,

                          I set out to rebuild the Perkins 4108/hydraulic drive on LaBoheme...I ended up installing a VOLVO Saildrive and I am very happy that I did. The weight loss for the boat was right around 300# and the range under motor went from about 300 nmi to just under  500nmi @ 6.5 knots. 

                          Just an additional thought...

                          Jeff Moorman
                          LaBoheme
                          Nic 35 #39
                          Annapolis, MD 

                          On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 5:21 AM, rogerbentonuk <roger.benton@...> wrote:
                           

                          Hi
                          We are thinking about changing our engine this winter from the OM636 to a Betamarine 35 or 43. We were hoping to undertake much of the work ourselves. As part of this process the old engine will have to be slid back into the main cabin space before it is lifted out, and the reverse for the new engine.

                          Does anyone have any advice on how to achieve this?

                          Any other advice would also be appreciated!

                          We were also planning on sound proofing the engine bay, again any advice on this would be appreciated?

                          BTW we have a hydraulic drive.

                          Many thanks
                          Roger and Hilary

                          Doucier Nic 35#86




                          --
                          SCURVY DOG YACHT SERVICES, LLC
                          P.O. BOX 3194
                          ANNAPOLIS, MD 21403
                          410-588-7769

                        • johnbaillie@btinternet.com
                          Hi Roger, I changed my Watermota Seapanther to a BetaMarine 35 in early 2009 and had a lot of correspondence with Simon when he changed his engine last winter.
                          Message 12 of 13 , Aug 27, 2012
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                            Hi Roger,

                            I changed my Watermota Seapanther to a BetaMarine 35 in early 2009 and had a lot of correspondence with Simon when he changed his engine last winter.

                            You can find the photos I posted in the album, 'Amaryllis BetaMarine 35'.

                            You seem to have had plenty of advice about getting engines out. I didn't see how mine was removed so can't add to that.

                            BetaMarine will want dimensions for the old engine and hull mounting configurations to make feet for the new engine mountings. You will also need to order a shallow oil sump.

                            BetaMarine had cleaned, painted, lined up and fixed my existing Hurth V-drive to the new engine. Perhaps they would do the same for your hydraulic drive.

                            The guys in the yard found supporting the unit a sufficient problem to need to cut an access hatch in the cockpit floor while lining up the engine mountings and the prop shaft coupling. Simon didn't record the need to do this. Maybe yard access to my boat was more difficult. I'm guessing that with a hydraulic drive you will have more freedom for positioning and lining up.

                            If I remember correctly, the 35HP and 43HP engines have the same dimensions, just different running speeds and turndown ratios.

                            Good luck,

                            John Baillie

                            Amaryllis Nic 35#165

                            --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, "rogerbentonuk" <roger.benton@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi
                            > We are thinking about changing our engine this winter from the OM636 to a Betamarine 35 or 43. We were hoping to undertake much of the work ourselves. As part of this process the old engine will have to be slid back into the main cabin space before it is lifted out, and the reverse for the new engine.
                            >
                            > Does anyone have any advice on how to achieve this?
                            >
                            > Any other advice would also be appreciated!
                            >
                            > We were also planning on sound proofing the engine bay, again any advice on this would be appreciated?
                            >
                            > BTW we have a hydraulic drive.
                            >
                            > Many thanks
                            > Roger and Hilary
                            >
                            > Doucier Nic 35#86
                            >
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