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Awlgrip/Hull painting questions

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  • galljj35
    We re in the process of getting Skye awlgripped. She was previously awlgripped in about 1995, changing the color from blue to grey. The new color will be
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 6, 2012
      We're in the process of getting Skye awlgripped. She was previously awlgripped in about 1995, changing the color from blue to grey. The new color will be stars and stripes (gunsmoke)blue.

      Once we got in the paint booth and under bright lights, the yard noticed a lot of small cracks, especially in the are just below the caprail.

      We had never really noticed these before - or if I did, it was certainly only up close ( 12") and in bright sunlight. Essentially invisible from 5 feet. I posted some pictures in the Skye folder of the picture section.

      These are about 2-3" long, and apparently extend through the gelcoat to the laminate. The yard reports that moisture readings in the vicinity of the cracks are no different than elsewhere in the hull, suggesting that they do not contribute moisture to the hull. It is clear that when the previous awlgrip job was done, the cracks were there then, and were filled with some form of putty.

      the yard says that the "proper" way to fix this is to grind back the gelcoat to the laminate to the point that the cracks are "gone", re-glass, fair and paint. This increases the price of the paint job by about 60%.

      Alternatively, they say we can fill the cracks, and paint, but advise that the cracks will assuredly return.

      My sense is that even if we did the "proper" repair, nothing will prevent the cracks from appearing elsewhere, leaving in the same general predicament.

      Anyone have any experience/suggestions on this ?

      thanks

      John
    • Colin Campbell-Dunlop
      Hi John. We were Awlgripped 9 years ago. The boat had been filled and faired before being Awlgripped from new in 1986. She was. Ground back to the original
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 6, 2012
        Hi John.

        We were Awlgripped 9 years ago. The boat had been filled and faired before being Awlgripped from new in 1986. She was. Ground back to the original primer, filled, faired, re-primed and then awlgripped. Fantastic job which still looks good today.

        No sign of any cracks or imperfections showing through.

        This said, none of the areas filled were 'stress' cracks so maybe this is an issue.

        The only advice I would give on this is that whilst awlgrip is great stuff you cannot cut it back or effect your own repairs. If we did the job again we would go for Awlcraft which can be cut back.

        The sacrifice you make is that the finish isn't quite as good but you can polish it which more than makes up for that.

        Rgds

        Colin

        Managing Director
        Azure Consulting
        68 King William Street
        London
        EC4N 7DZ

        From: "galljj35" <gall.john.j@...>
        Sender: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2012 02:01:01 -0000
        To: <campernicholson@yahoogroups.com>
        ReplyTo: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [campernicholson] Awlgrip/Hull painting questions

         

        We're in the process of getting Skye awlgripped. She was previously awlgripped in about 1995, changing the color from blue to grey. The new color will be stars and stripes (gunsmoke)blue.

        Once we got in the paint booth and under bright lights, the yard noticed a lot of small cracks, especially in the are just below the caprail.

        We had never really noticed these before - or if I did, it was certainly only up close ( 12") and in bright sunlight. Essentially invisible from 5 feet. I posted some pictures in the Skye folder of the picture section.

        These are about 2-3" long, and apparently extend through the gelcoat to the laminate. The yard reports that moisture readings in the vicinity of the cracks are no different than elsewhere in the hull, suggesting that they do not contribute moisture to the hull. It is clear that when the previous awlgrip job was done, the cracks were there then, and were filled with some form of putty.

        the yard says that the "proper" way to fix this is to grind back the gelcoat to the laminate to the point that the cracks are "gone", re-glass, fair and paint. This increases the price of the paint job by about 60%.

        Alternatively, they say we can fill the cracks, and paint, but advise that the cracks will assuredly return.

        My sense is that even if we did the "proper" repair, nothing will prevent the cracks from appearing elsewhere, leaving in the same general predicament.

        Anyone have any experience/suggestions on this ?

        thanks

        John

      • Graham Norbury
        John, The cracks under the rail look like they might have been caused by fasteners in the hull-deck joint or from the rail itself. Either way, it d be pretty
        Message 3 of 5 , Jun 7, 2012
          John,

          The cracks under the rail look like they might have been caused by fasteners in the hull-deck joint or from the rail itself.  Either way, it'd be pretty unusual to get something like that appearing all over the hull at locations where there was no stress concentration.  Certainly never had anything like that on my 35 - the only bad spot was an area of stress cracks where she'd obviously been subjected to an impact at some point or other.

          I would agree with the yard's recommendation that these will need to be ground out and glassed over if you want them to go away permanently.  Remedial work like that can be expensive, but if you don't do it properly you're going to be disappointed in the long run, especially with a light color paint job that shows cracks more readily than the darker colors.

          regards
          Graham

          On 06/06/2012 10:01 PM, galljj35 wrote:
           

          We're in the process of getting Skye awlgripped. She was previously awlgripped in about 1995, changing the color from blue to grey. The new color will be stars and stripes (gunsmoke)blue.

          Once we got in the paint booth and under bright lights, the yard noticed a lot of small cracks, especially in the are just below the caprail.

          We had never really noticed these before - or if I did, it was certainly only up close ( 12") and in bright sunlight. Essentially invisible from 5 feet. I posted some pictures in the Skye folder of the picture section.

          These are about 2-3" long, and apparently extend through the gelcoat to the laminate. The yard reports that moisture readings in the vicinity of the cracks are no different than elsewhere in the hull, suggesting that they do not contribute moisture to the hull. It is clear that when the previous awlgrip job was done, the cracks were there then, and were filled with some form of putty.

          the yard says that the "proper" way to fix this is to grind back the gelcoat to the laminate to the point that the cracks are "gone", re-glass, fair and paint. This increases the price of the paint job by about 60%.

          Alternatively, they say we can fill the cracks, and paint, but advise that the cracks will assuredly return.

          My sense is that even if we did the "proper" repair, nothing will prevent the cracks from appearing elsewhere, leaving in the same general predicament.

          Anyone have any experience/suggestions on this ?

          thanks

          John

        • Graham Norbury
          Awlcraft is an acrylic and has uniform pigment distribution throughout the paint layer so it can be readily sanded and polished, although it is softer and less
          Message 4 of 5 , Jun 7, 2012
            Awlcraft is an acrylic and has uniform pigment distribution throughout the paint layer so it can be readily sanded and polished, although it is softer and less durable than Awlgrip.

            Awlgrip is a linear polyurethane and forms it's own clear-coat as it flows out and dries.  Consequently, when you wet sand it you can't help but disturb the clear layer which results in a halo surrounding the repair.  There are established techniques to facilitate an invisible repair, but they are time consuming and hence costly, especially on dark colors or anything that has been over coated with additional clear coat.

            Typically we recommend Awlgrip for hull sides and Awlcraft for decks or other areas that are more likely to need repairs.

            Graham

            On 06/07/2012 2:28 AM, Colin Campbell-Dunlop wrote:  

            Hi John.

            We were Awlgripped 9 years ago. The boat had been filled and faired before being Awlgripped from new in 1986. She was. Ground back to the original primer, filled, faired, re-primed and then awlgripped. Fantastic job which still looks good today.

            No sign of any cracks or imperfections showing through.

            This said, none of the areas filled were 'stress' cracks so maybe this is an issue.

            The only advice I would give on this is that whilst awlgrip is great stuff you cannot cut it back or effect your own repairs. If we did the job again we would go for Awlcraft which can be cut back.

            The sacrifice you make is that the finish isn't quite as good but you can polish it which more than makes up for that.

            Rgds

            Colin

            Managing Director
            Azure Consulting
            68 King William Street
            London
            EC4N 7DZ


          • galljj35
            Thanks, everyone for the help on this. Ater several back and forths, I decided to simply fair in these cracks and go with awlgrip, which was the consensus of
            Message 5 of 5 , Jun 27, 2012
              Thanks, everyone for the help on this.

              Ater several back and forths, I decided to simply fair in these cracks and go with awlgrip, which was the consensus of the picky surveyor and the yard. My logic being that if I couldn't see them before, not likely that they would be noticeable again.

              I posted some photos of the finished product in the Skye folder, along with a before shot.

              Sort of like buying a new boat !

              john

              --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...> wrote:
              >
              > John,
              >
              > The cracks under the rail look like they might have been caused by
              > fasteners in the hull-deck joint or from the rail itself. Either way,
              > it'd be pretty unusual to get something like that appearing all over the
              > hull at locations where there was no stress concentration. Certainly
              > never had anything like that on my 35 - the only bad spot was an area of
              > stress cracks where she'd obviously been subjected to an impact at some
              > point or other.
              >
              > I would agree with the yard's recommendation that these will need to be
              > ground out and glassed over if you want them to go away permanently.
              > Remedial work like that can be expensive, but if you don't do it
              > properly you're going to be disappointed in the long run, especially
              > with a light color paint job that shows cracks more readily than the
              > darker colors.
              >
              > regards
              > Graham
              >
              > On 06/06/2012 10:01 PM, galljj35 wrote:
              > >
              > > We're in the process of getting Skye awlgripped. She was previously
              > > awlgripped in about 1995, changing the color from blue to grey. The
              > > new color will be stars and stripes (gunsmoke)blue.
              > >
              > > Once we got in the paint booth and under bright lights, the yard
              > > noticed a lot of small cracks, especially in the are just below the
              > > caprail.
              > >
              > > We had never really noticed these before - or if I did, it was
              > > certainly only up close ( 12") and in bright sunlight. Essentially
              > > invisible from 5 feet. I posted some pictures in the Skye folder of
              > > the picture section.
              > >
              > > These are about 2-3" long, and apparently extend through the gelcoat
              > > to the laminate. The yard reports that moisture readings in the
              > > vicinity of the cracks are no different than elsewhere in the hull,
              > > suggesting that they do not contribute moisture to the hull. It is
              > > clear that when the previous awlgrip job was done, the cracks were
              > > there then, and were filled with some form of putty.
              > >
              > > the yard says that the "proper" way to fix this is to grind back the
              > > gelcoat to the laminate to the point that the cracks are "gone",
              > > re-glass, fair and paint. This increases the price of the paint job by
              > > about 60%.
              > >
              > > Alternatively, they say we can fill the cracks, and paint, but advise
              > > that the cracks will assuredly return.
              > >
              > > My sense is that even if we did the "proper" repair, nothing will
              > > prevent the cracks from appearing elsewhere, leaving in the same
              > > general predicament.
              > >
              > > Anyone have any experience/suggestions on this ?
              > >
              > > thanks
              > >
              > > John
              > >
              > >
              >
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