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Paint for Hulls

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  • galljj35
    Anyone have experience with Alexseal coatings for hulls or cabin tops ?
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 15, 2012
      Anyone have experience with Alexseal coatings for hulls or cabin tops ?
    • Graham Norbury
      A good many years ago the yard I manage painted a hull with Alexseal. It s very similar to AwlGrip in both application and performance. These days we spray
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 15, 2012
        A good many years ago the yard I manage painted a hull with Alexseal.  It's very similar to AwlGrip in both application and performance.
        These days we spray AwlGrip or AwlCraft unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise.  i.e. repairs to existing paint

        Graham

        On 2/15/2012 1:56 PM, galljj35 wrote:
         

        Anyone have experience with Alexseal coatings for hulls or cabin tops ?


      • Albert Boyce
        Graham For what kind of application is awlcraft recommended over awlgrip? Sent from my iPhone
        Message 3 of 8 , Feb 16, 2012
          Graham

          For what kind of application is awlcraft recommended over awlgrip?

          Sent from my iPhone

          On Feb 15, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...> wrote:

           

          A good many years ago the yard I manage painted a hull with Alexseal.  It's very similar to AwlGrip in both application and performance.
          These days we spray AwlGrip or AwlCraft unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise.  i.e. repairs to existing paint

          Graham

          On 2/15/2012 1:56 PM, galljj35 wrote:

           

          Anyone have experience with Alexseal coatings for hulls or cabin tops ?


        • Graham Norbury
          Al, AwlCraft is an acrylic product with uniform pigment distribution throughout the coating layer, versus AwlGrip which is a linear polyurethane that forms
          Message 4 of 8 , Feb 16, 2012
            Al,

            AwlCraft is an acrylic product with uniform pigment distribution throughout the coating layer, versus AwlGrip which is a linear polyurethane that forms it's own (very thin) clearcoat at the surface.  From an end-use perspective, AwlCraft is slightly softer than AwlGrip, but easier to repair because of the uniform distribution of pigment.  AwlGrip has more depth to its luster and is much harder wearing, but also more difficult to repair (especially on dark colors like flag blue and black) because wet sanding & polishing abrades the surface clear-coat and causes it to "halo".

            To answer your specific question, we prefer to use AwlGrip for hull sides because it gives a shinier appearance and lasts longer.  On hulls with very porous gel coat we might fall back to AwlCraft as it is also less prone to fisheye if there is a persistent contamination problem.  (You'd be amazed what can pop up even after a boat has been apparently successfully primed with 545 epoxy!)

            The other use of AwlCraft is in areas such as decks or cabin sides where there is a strong likelihood for future repairs.  i.e. anywhere that gets a lot of hard use/abuse from feet, ropes or movable equipment.

            Maybe 90% of our projects are completed with AwlGrip and 10% with AwlCraft.

            Graham

            On 02/16/2012 5:17 AM, Albert Boyce wrote:  
            Graham

            For what kind of application is awlcraft recommended over awlgrip?

            Sent from my iPhone

            On Feb 15, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...> wrote:

             

            A good many years ago the yard I manage painted a hull with Alexseal.  It's very similar to AwlGrip in both application and performance.
            These days we spray AwlGrip or AwlCraft unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise.  i.e. repairs to existing paint

            Graham

            On 2/15/2012 1:56 PM, galljj35 wrote:

             

            Anyone have experience with Alexseal coatings for hulls or cabin tops ?


          • Colin Campbell-Dunlop
            Hi Graham, We have an Awlgrip hull. It was done about 8 years ago. Looks great although we have a few repairs to make. I am getting conflicting advice from
            Message 5 of 8 , Feb 16, 2012

              Hi Graham,

               

              We have an Awlgrip hull.  It was done about 8 years ago.  Looks great although we have a few repairs to make. 

               

              I am getting conflicting advice from the two yards that I have spoken to over here.  One says under no circumstances cut/polish it with anything other than awlgrip products.  The other yard say that it is possible to cut it with a very mild abrasive compound and then apply a special wax.  Both 3M products I believe.

               

              Does this suggestion sound viable to you? 

               

              Our hull is cream rather than a dark colour.

               

              Colin

               

              Trutz 35/225

               

              From: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com [mailto:campernicholson@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Graham Norbury
              Sent: 16 February 2012 11:56
              To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Paint for Hulls

               

               

              Al,

              AwlCraft is an acrylic product with uniform pigment distribution throughout the coating layer, versus AwlGrip which is a linear polyurethane that forms it's own (very thin) clearcoat at the surface.  From an end-use perspective, AwlCraft is slightly softer than AwlGrip, but easier to repair because of the uniform distribution of pigment.  AwlGrip has more depth to its luster and is much harder wearing, but also more difficult to repair (especially on dark colors like flag blue and black) because wet sanding & polishing abrades the surface clear-coat and causes it to "halo".

              To answer your specific question, we prefer to use AwlGrip for hull sides because it gives a shinier appearance and lasts longer.  On hulls with very porous gel coat we might fall back to AwlCraft as it is also less prone to fisheye if there is a persistent contamination problem.  (You'd be amazed what can pop up even after a boat has been apparently successfully primed with 545 epoxy!)

              The other use of AwlCraft is in areas such as decks or cabin sides where there is a strong likelihood for future repairs.  i.e. anywhere that gets a lot of hard use/abuse from feet, ropes or movable equipment.

              Maybe 90% of our projects are completed with AwlGrip and 10% with AwlCraft.

              Graham

              On 02/16/2012 5:17 AM, Albert Boyce wrote:

               

              Graham

               

              For what kind of application is awlcraft recommended over awlgrip?


              Sent from my iPhone


              On Feb 15, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...> wrote:

               

              A good many years ago the yard I manage painted a hull with Alexseal.  It's very similar to AwlGrip in both application and performance.
              These days we spray AwlGrip or AwlCraft unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise.  i.e. repairs to existing paint

              Graham

              On 2/15/2012 1:56 PM, galljj35 wrote:

               

              Anyone have experience with Alexseal coatings for hulls or cabin tops ?

               

            • Graham Norbury
              Colin, AwlGrip won t recommend using anything other than their products to maintain the finish, but once it s started to wear and needs heavier-duty
              Message 6 of 8 , Feb 16, 2012
                Colin,

                AwlGrip won't recommend using anything other than their products to maintain the finish, but once it's started to wear and needs heavier-duty restoration you can lengthen the service life by machine buffing with a regular wax.  Once you start using abrasives you inevitably start down the slippery slope and need to continue regular applications to maintain the shine.  Basically anything you you do which cuts the top "clear" layer causes color change and loss of gloss.

                In summary: waxes yes, abrasives not unless you absolutely have to.

                Graham

                On 2/16/2012 12:14 PM, Colin Campbell-Dunlop wrote:  

                Hi Graham,

                 

                We have an Awlgrip hull.  It was done about 8 years ago.  Looks great although we have a few repairs to make. 

                 

                I am getting conflicting advice from the two yards that I have spoken to over here.  One says under no circumstances cut/polish it with anything other than awlgrip products.  The other yard say that it is possible to cut it with a very mild abrasive compound and then apply a special wax.  Both 3M products I believe.

                 

                Does this suggestion sound viable to you? 

                 

                Our hull is cream rather than a dark colour.

                 

                Colin

                 

                Trutz 35/225

                 



              • MarkH
                Awl Grip is as you know, a two part system. That gives you some lattitude on fixes. You can apply about anything over it. Singel part paints limit you to
                Message 7 of 8 , Feb 16, 2012
                  Awl Grip is as you know, a two part system. That gives you some lattitude on fixes. You can apply about anything over it. Singel part paints limit you to single part repairs or the fix amy lift the substrate. That said, Awl Grip is known for being difficult to fix. You might actually ask your yard to quote you a 15-foot repair. (looks OK from 15 feet or more)

                  I have had some success with Awl Grip repairs by dilluting it and applying many thin coats with a roller, sponge or fine brush. If your finish is scraped up you might use MarineTex wiped on with a plastic blade so No Sanding is required before painting. Good luck.
                • Graham Norbury
                  Mark, You can certainly get away with applying more or less anything over AwlGrip so long as you have suitable expectations of end result. For example, my old
                  Message 8 of 8 , Feb 16, 2012
                    Mark,

                    You can certainly get away with applying more or less anything over AwlGrip so long as you have suitable expectations of end result.  For example, my old Nic35 once spent a rough night rubbing on a nail sticking out of a dock piling.  My "25yd repair" consisted of brush touchup with Interlux yacht enamel.  I certainly couldn't have got away with that approach if someone was paying me to do the job, but it worked fine for me given my time and budgetary constraints.

                    If you want a well-blended repair you are pretty much have to spray it with the same product as originally used, and even then there are certain tricks of the trade to achieve good results without noticeable haloing.  The officially sanctioned method requires the use of blending reducers to thin the final coat so that you don't have to go over the repair with any abrasive compounds.  This type of repair is especially challenging if you're dealing with a very dark color or metallic finish that has been clear-coated.   I've seen it done well, but the hours involved can be depressing. 

                    A prospective customer would be well advised to request a fixed price quote for a job such as this, along with a defined set of goals for what would be considered an acceptable outcome.  By establishing the criteria up front there is less likelihood for mismatched expectations towards the end of the project.

                    Graham

                    On 02/16/2012 6:40 PM, MarkH wrote:
                     


                    Awl Grip is as you know, a two part system. That gives you some lattitude on fixes. You can apply about anything over it. Singel part paints limit you to single part repairs or the fix amy lift the substrate. That said, Awl Grip is known for being difficult to fix. You might actually ask your yard to quote you a 15-foot repair. (looks OK from 15 feet or more)

                    I have had some success with Awl Grip repairs by dilluting it and applying many thin coats with a roller, sponge or fine brush. If your finish is scraped up you might use MarineTex wiped on with a plastic blade so No Sanding is required before painting. Good luck.

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