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Jolie Nic 32 RUDDER MOISTURE CONTENT

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  • john dean
    As part of a maintence survey, my surveyor using her yellow plastic hammer herd thunks instead of the expected hard bongs. With my concurance she used a one
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 18, 2011
      As part of a maintence survey, my surveyor using her yellow plastic hammer herd thunks instead of the expected hard bongs. With my concurance she used a one inch core hole saw and sticking her finger into the hole found wet mushy foam. The rudder was removed, cut in half following the orginal seam, old foam removed, no damage to bronze shaft and tangs, foam replaced with epoxy and micro filler on both sides. Each year I use that same yellow hammer and hear lovely hard bongs except for few small areas where I have injected epoxy with parcial sucess. The repair was done about 1990 so it looks good forever.

      As an aside I had horrible blisters after 10 years in the tropics so I completely epoxy sheathed the boat. It took about about 50 gallons of epoxy, two heavy rolls of biaxel cloth, 100 days of hard work and lots of money. In hind sight I should have abandoned the hull and used all the bit on a new  oragamie steel hull but I had some 30 years of attachment to my good old 1969 Nic 32. This work was done in 2004. Each year using that yellow hammer I hear those lovely hard bonks.

      For kicks I have walked through a storage yard sounding similar rudders. Most sound bad.

      Cheers, John Dean

      --- On Sat, 6/18/11, colin@... <colin@...> wrote:

      From: colin@... <colin@...>
      Subject: Re: [campernicholson] NIC 35 RUDDER MOISTURE CONTENT
      To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, June 18, 2011, 4:49 AM

       

      Hi Don,

      Yes there does seem to be quite a lot of differing opinion on this topic.

      First point. I am not sure that there is any stainless steel in there. I think both top and bottom pintles are marine bronze so no crevice corrosion issues.

      If there has been delamination this should be pretty obvious from sounding with a hammer. In that case the best solution is to rebuild. I am not aware of anyone tackling this without dropping the rudder.

      I do know of two examples. One rebuilt replacing existing foam core with a modern equivalent. The other did a more extensive job glassing in new stringers to spread the loads and the filling all voids with resin and micro balloons. Heavy, but built like a tank and water resistant.

      If it was me (and it will be come December) I would drop the rudder, check pintles for integrity and if even slightly suspect chop one side off to have a look. Remedial action dictated by what I found.

      Do have a look at the Blue Nava pics as they are both informative, re-assuring and show what can be done by way of repair and improvement.

      Rgds

      Colin

      Colin Campbell-Dunlop
      Azure Consulting
      68 King William Street
      London EC4N 7DZ
      +44 20 7193 4232
      www.azure-consulting.com


      From: "Don" <canbrisas@...>
      Sender: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 08:34:40 -0000
      To: <campernicholson@yahoogroups.com>
      ReplyTo: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [campernicholson] NIC 35 RUDDER MOISTURE CONTENT

       

      Hi,
      My surveyor has reported that the rudder has high moisture content and as a result the structural integrity of the rudder is compromised. He has based this statement purely on the moisture content reading and has not drilled any holes to make a visual inspection.

      I have read many diverse opinions on the website and elsewhere about this issue. Some are saying that it is only the rudder core that is wet and that no structural integrity is compromised. Others are saying that if the core is wet then it follows that the moisture will leach into the epoxied frame area and, without the presence of oxygen, will cause the stainless steel frame to decompose.

      It appears that even from one surveyor to another there is no agreement on this and the opinions vary from "the boat is uninsurable" to "no problem and no need to do anything". Some say drill a few holes in the bottom of the rudder to let the water run out when laid up out of the water.

      Obviously if water has frozen over the winter and cracked the rudder then that is a definite rebuild situation.

      Two of the website posts talked about rebuilding their rudders but did not say if they found that the structural integrity of the rudder had been compromised. I would like to know if it was.

      I also note that the rudders that have been rebuilt have all been removed from the boat. Has anybody ever rebuilt a rudder without removing it? If the procedure is only to remove one side of the rudder to remove the wetted core and check the structural integrity then why remove the rudder. The rudder could be left hollow with suitable internal members to carry the replaced outer side of the rudder. Drain holes (as someone very sensibly posted) could be left to be temporarily filled for when in the water.

      Any thoughts and opinions would be much appreciated.

      Don Cleland
      Saunterer
      Nic 35 # 157

    • MarkH
      check my post 5453 and photos in response to post 5451. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/campernicholson/photos/album/2135358390/pic/list I can highly recommend
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 19, 2011
        check my post 5453 and photos in response to post 5451.

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/campernicholson/photos/album/2135358390/pic/list

        I can highly recommend the use of epoxy & microballoons as a filler. The final product is totally waterproof and very strong. Our surveyor this spring used his little hammer and the rudder rang like like a musical chime. He asked what the heck it was. I finished mine with carbon fiber skin & vacuum bag but any appropriate glass & epoxy would be OK. The mix 7 gallons balloons to 3 gallons US Composites low viscosity, slow cure resin yields a mix like Kraft marshmellow cream.

        You can be sure that any foam or balsa filler will eventually get saturated. The only filler that will work absolutely is one that is absolutely waterproof even if the skin fails.

        If it is possible to split the skin off, clean and dry the interior, re-attach the skin and then fill with the microbaloon mix you would probably have a good repair/rebuild. Make sure the skins are not also wrecked. Ours were totally mush. You might even use bad skins to cast the microbaloons epoxy mix and then grind off the old skin and lay up new glass over the new core.
      • Don
        Thanks for all the useful responses on this subject they are much appreciated. I have asked a different surveyor to inspect the rudder and report back his
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 21, 2011
          Thanks for all the useful responses on this subject they are much appreciated.

          I have asked a different surveyor to inspect the rudder and report back his opinion and will post his findings within the next couple of weeks.

          Again, thanks for the feedback.

          Don
          Nic 35 Saunterer
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