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NIC 35 Keel leaking

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  • Michael
    Hi, it seems I have a problem: Our NIC is still on the trailer. We put some water (maybe 5 liter) in bilge, after 5-10 minutes there were not water in bilge,
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 17, 2011
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      Hi,
      it seems I have a problem:

      Our NIC is still on the trailer. We put some water (maybe 5 liter) in bilge, after 5-10 minutes there were not water in bilge, but we did not pump the water outside.

      My son found out how the water left the bilge:

      The water flow out from the bottom side of the keel,
      very fast !!!
      Unbelivable, how fast the water can flow out thru very litte breaks.

      Now I am very confuse ! How was the water able to find the way from the bilge to the bottom side of the keel ???
      I guess that I have to leaks:
      bilge and keel ??!!!??

      It seems, it is only a small area (~1m), middle of the keel.

      Does someone know this problem or has an exlanation for this desaster ???
      The question is now, how can I repair it....

      Help and informations requested

      Greeting from Germany

      Michael
    • MARK HOENKE
      Many of us who store boats in the north where water gets hard have added drain plugs to our keel and sump boxes so that water does not accumulate over the
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 17, 2011
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        Many of us who store boats in the north where water gets hard have added drain plugs to our keel and sump boxes so that water does not accumulate over the winter.  Is it possible that you have such a modification?  If so, put in the plugs.  If this is not so, - so sorry – you have a project to sort out.  Note: if you do have keel plug(s) it is a good idea to place more than one prominent placard where you will not ignore it before launch.

      • Graham Norbury
        Michael, Some time back, after a hard grounding caused glass damage to the very aft end of my Nic35 s fin, I discovered we had a similar problem to the one you
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 17, 2011
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          Michael,

          Some time back, after a hard grounding caused glass damage to the very aft end of my Nic35's fin, I discovered we had a similar problem to the one you face now.  We found it wasn't practical to repair the bottom of the bilge sump due to poor access and years of accumulated gunge worked deep into the cracks.  The outside however, was fairly easy to address once it had been ground back and allowed to drain & fully dry out.

          Graham

          On 04/17/2011 3:11 PM, Michael wrote:
           

          Hi,
          it seems I have a problem:

          Our NIC is still on the trailer. We put some water (maybe 5 liter) in bilge, after 5-10 minutes there were not water in bilge, but we did not pump the water outside.

          My son found out how the water left the bilge:

          The water flow out from the bottom side of the keel,
          very fast !!!
          Unbelivable, how fast the water can flow out thru very litte breaks.

          Now I am very confuse ! How was the water able to find the way from the bilge to the bottom side of the keel ???
          I guess that I have to leaks:
          bilge and keel ??!!!??

          It seems, it is only a small area (~1m), middle of the keel.

          Does someone know this problem or has an exlanation for this desaster ???
          The question is now, how can I repair it....

          Help and informations requested

          Greeting from Germany

          Michael

        • Michael
          Hi Mark ! Thnx for your reply. I am sure I donot have such plugs. I can understand that such drain plugs for the sump box can be very usefull in winter.., but
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 18, 2011
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            Hi Mark !

            Thnx for your reply. I am sure I donot have such plugs.
            I can understand that such drain plugs for the sump box can be very usefull in winter..,
            but how can you install a drain plug in the keel ?
            The NIC 35 has a capsuled lead keel....
            Do you have a picture of your keel plug?

            Regards
            Michael





            --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, "MARK HOENKE" <tornado186@...> wrote:
            >
            > Many of us who store boats in the north where water gets hard have added
            > drain plugs to our keel and sump boxes so that water does not accumulate
            > over the winter. Is it possible that you have such a modification? If so,
            > put in the plugs. If this is not so, - so sorry - you have a project to
            > sort out. Note: if you do have keel plug(s) it is a good idea to place more
            > than one prominent placard where you will not ignore it before launch.
            >
          • MarkH
            Our Camper 58 has a swing CB. The lead is encapulated in fiferglass. Aft of the CB box is a triangular sump below the engine. -wide at the front and tapering
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 18, 2011
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              Our Camper 58 has a swing CB. The lead is encapulated in fiferglass. Aft of the CB box is a triangular sump below the engine. -wide at the front and tapering to nothing aft. It is about a meter deep and holds about 50 gallons. Drill through from the outside after CAREFUL measurements. Dry it out totally and then embed a bronze heavy wall tube with internal pipe threads. Rough up the outside of the tube and bond it in place using the usual materials you would use for a through hull fitting. Make sure the plug you will screw in is below flush or otherwise protected from damage. This port cannot be plugged from inside if it fails. Since our boat came from the tropica and will return in a few seasons, we have not added the feature. I pour 5 gallons of glycol into the sump in the fall and pump some through the bilge pipes.
            • Michael
              Hi again ! The last two days I have used to investigate my keel leaking problem. First I have to say that we had a hard grounding end of last year. Maybe the
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 19, 2011
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                Hi again !
                The last two days I have used to investigate my keel leaking problem.
                First I have to say that we had a hard grounding end of last year.
                Maybe the bottom of the keel got some cracks...

                After sailing a NIC 35 34 years I really have forgotten that only 1/3 of the keel is filled with lead.
                That means 2/3 of the keel is part of the hull, if you have a leak in this area, water is able to come into the boat.

                The bottom of the sump bilge sump is not the bottom of the keel.
                The keelis much deeper.
                The keel bottom is like a cover...
                I discovered, that the bottom of keel sump isnĀ“t tied/sealed.
                The bottom of the keel sump has no cracks, the water is running between "keel bottom cover and hull".

                hmmm, its really difficult to describe all in english... :-(

                Now I know that I have 2 problems:

                1. a leaking keel sump
                2. and a leaking keel...

                Greetings Michael



                --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, "MARK HOENKE" <tornado186@...> wrote:
                >
                > Many of us who store boats in the north where water gets hard have added
                > drain plugs to our keel and sump boxes so that water does not accumulate
                > over the winter. Is it possible that you have such a modification? If so,
                > put in the plugs. If this is not so, - so sorry - you have a project to
                > sort out. Note: if you do have keel plug(s) it is a good idea to place more
                > than one prominent placard where you will not ignore it before launch.
                >
              • MarkH
                It may be that you will need to remove all bottom paint, sealers, barriers and find where the cracks are. It sounds like the grounding may have opened some
                Message 7 of 8 , Apr 19, 2011
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                  It may be that you will need to remove all bottom paint, sealers, barriers and find where the cracks are. It sounds like the grounding may have opened some hard to find pathways. If they are not found and blocked / repaired you may suffer from lamination damage as well. This means that you will also need to find and block cracks from the inside as well. You may be able to seal up the inside of the vessel and apply a slight, inches of water pressure delta pressure inside with a marker gas added to the interior atmosphere. We used this technique for spotting leaks in welds on pipes. It is called a Halogen leak test. If you cannot find the various leaks by easy means then you may enlist the aid of a testing technician.

                  http://www.ndt.net/article/v04n02/slov_30/slov_30.htm
                • Graham Norbury
                  The Nic35 plans show some sort of void or filler material in the aft section of the keel under the bilge sump. My supposition is that it s plywood or similar
                  Message 8 of 8 , Apr 19, 2011
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                    The Nic35 plans show some sort of void or filler material in the aft section of the keel under the bilge sump.  My supposition is that it's plywood or similar - basically saturated at this point, and unlikely to dry out on it's own.

                    I'm not sure I'd worry about it too much though.  Seal the cracks top and bottom to stop water ingress into the bilge and go sailing.  The hull layup is so thick that the trapped moisture is unlikely to cause much of a problem.

                    Graham.

                    On 04/19/2011 4:33 PM, Michael wrote:
                     

                    Hi again !
                    The last two days I have used to investigate my keel leaking problem.
                    First I have to say that we had a hard grounding end of last year.
                    Maybe the bottom of the keel got some cracks...

                    After sailing a NIC 35 34 years I really have forgotten that only 1/3 of the keel is filled with lead.
                    That means 2/3 of the keel is part of the hull, if you have a leak in this area, water is able to come into the boat.

                    The bottom of the sump bilge sump is not the bottom of the keel.
                    The keelis much deeper.
                    The keel bottom is like a cover...
                    I discovered, that the bottom of keel sump isn´t tied/sealed.
                    The bottom of the keel sump has no cracks, the water is running between "keel bottom cover and hull".

                    hmmm, its really difficult to describe all in english... :-(

                    Now I know that I have 2 problems:

                    1. a leaking keel sump
                    2. and a leaking keel...

                    Greetings Michael

                    --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, "MARK HOENKE" <tornado186@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Many of us who store boats in the north where water gets hard have added
                    > drain plugs to our keel and sump boxes so that water does not accumulate
                    > over the winter. Is it possible that you have such a modification? If so,
                    > put in the plugs. If this is not so, - so sorry - you have a project to
                    > sort out. Note: if you do have keel plug(s) it is a good idea to place more
                    > than one prominent placard where you will not ignore it before launch.
                    >

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