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Re: [campernicholson] Feathering Propellors

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  • colin@azure-consulting.com
    Hi Paul, I am an Auto-prop fan myself as you may know. We have had ours for five years now and I would never go back to a fixed. Annual maintenance is a breeze
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 12, 2010
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      Hi Paul, I am an Auto-prop fan myself as you may know.

      We have had ours for five years now and I would never go back to a fixed.

      Annual maintenance is a breeze and the speed advantage under sail is probably better than Bruntons suggest if our experience is anything to go by.

      I am not crticising the maxprop though as I know that there are quite a few nic owners who swear by them.

      My reason for choosing auto rather than max was a personal one in that I perceived that there was 'less to go wrong' with the auto prop. We have the H5 three bladed for our (now rebuilt) Perkins 4-108 with Hurth 2.1:1 reduction.

      Let me know what you decide.

      All the best

      Colin

      Trutz 35/225

      Colin Campbell-Dunlop
      Azure Consulting
      68 King William Street
      London EC4N 7DZ
      +44 20 7193 4232
      www.azure-consulting.com


      From: "Paul Lewis" <paul.lewis17@...>
      Sender: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 21:15:21 -0000
      To: <campernicholson@yahoogroups.com>
      ReplyTo: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [campernicholson] Feathering Propellors

       

      Just returned from Southampton boat show and now deliberating again between Bruntons Autoprop and 3 blade Max Prop.
      With Perkins 4108 what size Maxprop has been used for Nic 35
      Any preferences between the two?

      Out of interest the boat show prices this year are less than last year and difference in price between them about £100.

      Paul Lewis
      35/228
      Farewell

    • colin@azure-consulting.com
      I am in agreement with the statement that the prop needs to be kept clean to get it to work most efficiently. I donned the wetsuit in Alderney a couple of
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 12, 2010
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        I am in agreement with the statement that the prop needs to be kept clean to get it to work most efficiently.

        I donned the wetsuit in Alderney a couple of years ago to scrape off some of the fouling. All was going well until the harbour master questioned the wisdom of frolicking in the water dressed in black rubber in the alleged presence of an aggressive harbour seal which was hell bent on making the most of the mating season.

        We sailed back to Portsmouth with one clean blade and two dirty ones. Performance under sail and power seemed unaffected.

        Rgds

        Colin

        Colin Campbell-Dunlop
        Azure Consulting
        68 King William Street
        London EC4N 7DZ
        +44 20 7193 4232
        www.azure-consulting.com


        From: Katie and Simon <katieandsimon@...>
        Sender: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 18:21:01 -0400
        To: campernicholson group<campernicholson@yahoogroups.com>
        ReplyTo: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [campernicholson] Feathering Propellors

         

        Hi Paul,
         
        On Gin Rummy we have a 2-blade MaxProp, 19" diameter set at 19" pitch.
         
        Early last year we investigated a number of 3-blade props and for the 3-blade MaxProp we were recommended 19" diameter set at 17" pitch. We have the Perkins 4-108 with Hurth V-drive at 2.99:1 reduction ratio. The quote for the MaxProp at the time was $3,710, or $4,850 for the VP, both prices in USD from PYI in the US.
         
        In the end we stayed with our current prop. Although we would have liked the extra thrust of the 3-blade we considered it too much to pay.
         
        We've also heard good things about the Brunton Autoprop - but I understand you really do have to keep it clean to make it operate most efficiently.
         
        Hope this helps.
         
        Simon
        Gin Rummy, CN35-202
         


        To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
        From: paul.lewis17@...
        Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 21:15:21 +0000
        Subject: [campernicholson] Feathering Propellors

         
        Just returned from Southampton boat show and now deliberating again between Bruntons Autoprop and 3 blade Max Prop.
        With Perkins 4108 what size Maxprop has been used for Nic 35
        Any preferences between the two?

        Out of interest the boat show prices this year are less than last year and difference in price between them about £100.

        Paul Lewis
        35/228
        Farewell


      • Geoff McBroom
        Paul, I fitted a Brunton 3 blade autoprop two years ago (after hearing from Colin in Trutz) and can t fault it. Mine has stayed spotlessly clean with no
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 13, 2010
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          Paul,
          I fitted a Brunton 3 blade autoprop two years ago (after hearing from Colin in Trutz) and can't fault it. Mine has stayed spotlessly clean with no antifouling or other agent applied. I was worried about wear because my boat spends half it's life settled in deep mud, but when I pump new grease through the bearings (once a year) the old grease forced out looks almost new, accompanied with just the odd drop of seawater. In any case all the parts subject to wear are small and replaceable.
          The change in sailing speed has been dramatic, far outweighing the standard the folding/feathering handicap allowance in the RYA handbook. I wonder if the particularly steep propshaft angle of the Nic 35 Mk 5 means it is important to choose a prop where each blade can individually feather to the local flow which I believe is about 40 degrees to the shaft when sailing.
          I hope this helps
          Geoff McBroom
          FLY
           
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 10:15 PM
          Subject: [campernicholson] Feathering Propellors

           

          Just returned from Southampton boat show and now deliberating again between Bruntons Autoprop and 3 blade Max Prop.
          With Perkins 4108 what size Maxprop has been used for Nic 35
          Any preferences between the two?

          Out of interest the boat show prices this year are less than last year and difference in price between them about £100.

          Paul Lewis
          35/228
          Farewell

        • Thomas J Middelthon
          The Autoprop has far better performance when it comes to RPM/hull speed at low/medium RPM and when motorsailing the difference is even bigger. Maxprop probably
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 13, 2010
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            The Autoprop has far better performance when it comes to RPM/hull speed at low/medium RPM and when motorsailing the difference is even bigger. Maxprop probably marginally lower drag when sailing and somewhat better thrust when starting from 0 speed. I think most of us would consider Autoprop the better, but it depends…..

             

            I’ve had my Autoprop for nearly 10 years and it works great.

             

            Thomas

             

            N35 # 40 North Wind, Stavanger Norway

            -and Norwegian agent for Brunton’s Autoprop

             

             

            From: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com [mailto:campernicholson@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Lewis
            Sent: 12. september 2010 23:15
            To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [campernicholson] Feathering Propellors

             

             

            Just returned from Southampton boat show and now deliberating again between Bruntons Autoprop and 3 blade Max Prop.
            With Perkins 4108 what size Maxprop has been used for Nic 35
            Any preferences between the two?

            Out of interest the boat show prices this year are less than last year and difference in price between them about £100.

            Paul Lewis
            35/228
            Farewell

          • John R Tapscott
            ... I have had a 3 bladed Maxprop on Zuleika Vair for probably 6 or 7 years and am very pleased with it. My reason for choosing it rather than the Bruntons
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 13, 2010
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              On 12/09/2010 22:15, Paul Lewis wrote:
               

              Just returned from Southampton boat show and now deliberating again between Bruntons Autoprop and 3 blade Max Prop.
              With Perkins 4108 what size Maxprop has been used for Nic 35
              Any preferences between the two?

              Out of interest the boat show prices this year are less than last year and difference in price between them about £100.

              Paul Lewis
              35/228
              Farewell

              I have had a 3 bladed Maxprop on Zuleika Vair for probably 6 or 7 years and am very pleased with it.  My reason for choosing it rather than the Bruntons one was that I was advised the latter would have to have a means of locking the shaft when sailing which the Maxprop did not require. I am not sure if this was only because we still have the hydraulic drive or indeed if the situation is still the same in this regard but if so it may be worth considering.

              John Tapscott
              35/97
            • colin@azure-consulting.com
              Hi John, pleased that you are satisfied with your Maxprop. Paul, with the mechanical Hurth box we just leave it in ahead and with the engine off the shaft
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 13, 2010
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                Hi John, pleased that you are satisfied with your Maxprop. Paul, with the mechanical Hurth box we just leave it in 'ahead' and with the engine off the shaft is locked ok.

                Rgds

                Colin

                Colin Campbell-Dunlop
                Azure Consulting
                68 King William Street
                London EC4N 7DZ
                +44 20 7193 4232
                www.azure-consulting.com


                From: John R Tapscott <jrtapscott@...>
                Sender: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 17:42:16 +0100
                To: <campernicholson@yahoogroups.com>
                ReplyTo: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Feathering Propellors

                 

                On 12/09/2010 22:15, Paul Lewis wrote:
                 

                Just returned from Southampton boat show and now deliberating again between Bruntons Autoprop and 3 blade Max Prop.
                With Perkins 4108 what size Maxprop has been used for Nic 35
                Any preferences between the two?

                Out of interest the boat show prices this year are less than last year and difference in price between them about £100.

                Paul Lewis
                35/228
                Farewell

                I have had a 3 bladed Maxprop on Zuleika Vair for probably 6 or 7 years and am very pleased with it.  My reason for choosing it rather than the Bruntons one was that I was advised the latter would have to have a means of locking the shaft when sailing which the Maxprop did not require. I am not sure if this was only because we still have the hydraulic drive or indeed if the situation is still the same in this regard but if so it may be worth considering.

                John Tapscott
                35/97
              • Graham Norbury
                Most manual sailboat transmissions can be locked by putting them astern. On some, if you leave them in gear ahead with the boat moving forward, the shaft will
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 13, 2010
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                  Most manual sailboat transmissions can be locked by putting them astern. 

                  On some, if you leave them in gear ahead with the boat moving forward, the shaft will still freewheel.   e.g. My Yanmar 4JH with it's Kanzaki KM4P tranmission that freewheels quite happily (with a MaxProp) until it is shifted astern to lock the shaft and feather the prop.

                  Some trannys lock irrespective of which direction you shift the lever. YMMV

                  Graham

                  On 9/13/2010 12:45 PM, colin@... wrote:  

                  Hi John, pleased that you are satisfied with your Maxprop. Paul, with the mechanical Hurth box we just leave it in 'ahead' and with the engine off the shaft is locked ok.

                  Rgds

                  Colin

                  Colin Campbell-Dunlop
                  Azure Consulting
                  68 King William Street
                  London EC4N 7DZ
                  +44 20 7193 4232
                  www.azure-consulting.com


                  From: John R Tapscott <jrtapscott@...>
                  Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 17:42:16 +0100
                  Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Feathering Propellors

                   

                  On 12/09/2010 22:15, Paul Lewis wrote:

                   

                  Just returned from Southampton boat show and now deliberating again between Bruntons Autoprop and 3 blade Max Prop.
                  With Perkins 4108 what size Maxprop has been used for Nic 35
                  Any preferences between the two?

                  Out of interest the boat show prices this year are less than last year and difference in price between them about £100.

                  Paul Lewis
                  35/228
                  Farewell

                  I have had a 3 bladed Maxprop on Zuleika Vair for probably 6 or 7 years and am very pleased with it.  My reason for choosing it rather than the Bruntons one was that I was advised the latter would have to have a means of locking the shaft when sailing which the Maxprop did not require. I am not sure if this was only because we still have the hydraulic drive or indeed if the situation is still the same in this regard but if so it may be worth considering.

                  John Tapscott
                  35/97
                • Brian Stannard
                  You should not sail with a Yanmar transmission in any gear except neutral. The exceptions are hydraulic transmissions the few with Hurth/ZF transmissions. See
                  Message 8 of 12 , Sep 13, 2010
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                    You should not sail with a Yanmar transmission in any gear except neutral. The exceptions are hydraulic transmissions the few with Hurth/ZF transmissions. See this link for the Yanmar Advisory.  http://www.sailnet.com/forums/diesel-engine-forum/63165-yanmar-gear-position-while-sailing.html

                    On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...> wrote:
                     

                    Most manual sailboat transmissions can be locked by putting them astern. 

                    On some, if you leave them in gear ahead with the boat moving forward, the shaft will still freewheel.   e.g. My Yanmar 4JH with it's Kanzaki KM4P tranmission that freewheels quite happily (with a MaxProp) until it is shifted astern to lock the shaft and feather the prop.

                    Some trannys lock irrespective of which direction you shift the lever. YMMV

                    Graham

                    On 9/13/2010 12:45 PM, colin@... wrote:

                     

                    Hi John, pleased that you are satisfied with your Maxprop. Paul, with the mechanical Hurth box we just leave it in 'ahead' and with the engine off the shaft is locked ok.

                    Rgds

                    Colin

                    Colin Campbell-Dunlop
                    Azure Consulting
                    68 King William Street
                    London EC4N 7DZ
                    +44 20 7193 4232
                    www.azure-consulting.com


                    From: John R Tapscott <jrtapscott@...>
                    Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 17:42:16 +0100
                    Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Feathering Propellors

                     

                    On 12/09/2010 22:15, Paul Lewis wrote:

                     

                    Just returned from Southampton boat show and now deliberating again between Bruntons Autoprop and 3 blade Max Prop.
                    With Perkins 4108 what size Maxprop has been used for Nic 35
                    Any preferences between the two?

                    Out of interest the boat show prices this year are less than last year and difference in price between them about £100.

                    Paul Lewis
                    35/228
                    Farewell

                    I have had a 3 bladed Maxprop on Zuleika Vair for probably 6 or 7 years and am very pleased with it.  My reason for choosing it rather than the Bruntons one was that I was advised the latter would have to have a means of locking the shaft when sailing which the Maxprop did not require. I am not sure if this was only because we still have the hydraulic drive or indeed if the situation is still the same in this regard but if so it may be worth considering.

                    John Tapscott
                    35/97




                    --
                    Brian
                    Living aboard in Victoria
                  • Graham Norbury
                    Most curious... I d not run across that bulletin before, and the boatyard I manage has an active Yanmar Gold dealership. If I were to guess, I d say it
                    Message 9 of 12 , Sep 13, 2010
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                      Most curious...  I'd not run across that bulletin before, and the boatyard I manage has an active Yanmar Gold dealership.

                      If I were to guess, I'd say it primarily applies to cone drive transmissions, some of which have been known to get stuck in gear from time to time.   The other thing to bear in mind is that not all Kanzakis are cone drive (some have conventional clutch plates), and not all Yanmars are mated with a Kanzaki (ZF is offered as an option).   Generally speaking, the cone drive tranny's require SAE30 oil, while conventional clutch packs require ATF.

                      But hey, who am I to question the wisdom of a blanket "don't do it statement"!
                      Graham

                      On 9/13/2010 5:35 PM, Brian Stannard wrote:  

                      You should not sail with a Yanmar transmission in any gear except neutral. The exceptions are hydraulic transmissions the few with Hurth/ZF transmissions. See this link for the Yanmar Advisory.  http://www.sailnet.com/forums/diesel-engine-forum/63165-yanmar-gear-position-while-sailing.html

                      On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...> wrote:
                       

                      Most manual sailboat transmissions can be locked by putting them astern. 

                      On some, if you leave them in gear ahead with the boat moving forward, the shaft will still freewheel.   e.g. My Yanmar 4JH with it's Kanzaki KM4P tranmission that freewheels quite happily (with a MaxProp) until it is shifted astern to lock the shaft and feather the prop.

                      Some trannys lock irrespective of which direction you shift the lever. YMMV

                      Graham

                      On 9/13/2010 12:45 PM, colin@... wrote:

                       

                      Hi John, pleased that you are satisfied with your Maxprop. Paul, with the mechanical Hurth box we just leave it in 'ahead' and with the engine off the shaft is locked ok.

                      Rgds

                      Colin

                      Colin Campbell-Dunlop
                      Azure Consulting
                      68 King William Street
                      London EC4N 7DZ
                      +44 20 7193 4232
                      www.azure-consulting.com


                      From: John R Tapscott <jrtapscott@...>
                      Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 17:42:16 +0100
                      Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Feathering Propellors

                       

                      On 12/09/2010 22:15, Paul Lewis wrote:

                       

                      Just returned from Southampton boat show and now deliberating again between Bruntons Autoprop and 3 blade Max Prop.
                      With Perkins 4108 what size Maxprop has been used for Nic 35
                      Any preferences between the two?

                      Out of interest the boat show prices this year are less than last year and difference in price between them about £100.

                      Paul Lewis
                      35/228
                      Farewell

                      I have had a 3 bladed Maxprop on Zuleika Vair for probably 6 or 7 years and am very pleased with it.  My reason for choosing it rather than the Bruntons one was that I was advised the latter would have to have a means of locking the shaft when sailing which the Maxprop did not require. I am not sure if this was only because we still have the hydraulic drive or indeed if the situation is still the same in this regard but if so it may be worth considering.

                      John Tapscott
                      35/97



                      --
                      Brian
                      Living aboard in Victoria
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