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Wheel removal

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  • John Gall
    Does anyone know if I need a gear pulled to take the steering wheel off? I ve the original a frame pedastal. But no drawings or instructions j
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 22, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Does anyone know if I need a gear pulled to take the steering wheel off?

      I've the original a frame pedastal. But no drawings or instructions

      j

      On Saturday, July 10, 2010, <colin@...> wrote:
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      > Dear all,
      >
      > Thank you so much for all of your comments on this topic which have been really useful and informative.
      >
      > When the engine is stripped down I will have a better idea of exactly what caused the breakdown and will report back. If I can get any pictures I will post them on here.
      >
      > I am pretty sure that I had the belt too tight and that as I mentioned earlier, it was an incorrect width so I feel the cold hand of culpability resting upon my shoulder!
      >
      > This leads me to suspect the crankshaft bearing theory (hopefully without a crack in the shaft). We had no oil pressure warning (I will fit a siren now) so hopefully the rattle we hear is crankshaft related. The engine starts and runs fine when cool but once you get it warm and run up to 1500 revs or so you get the rattle.
      >
      > It would be helpful if the small ends are ok as perkins are saying that they only supply them as part of an assembly with the con rods. Expensive.
      >
      > Thanks once again to all and fair winds.
      >
      > Rgds
      >
      > ColinColin Campbell-Dunlop
      > Azure Consulting
      > 68 King William Street
      > London EC4N 7DZ
      > +44 20 7193 4232
      > www.azure-consulting.comFrom: "O. R. Armstrong" <russ.armstrong@...>
      > Sender: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 22:31:25 -0500To: Graham Norbury<gnorbury@...>ReplyTo: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
      > Cc: <campernicholson@yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Death of 'Mr Perkins'
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      >
      > Graham, et al:
      >
      >   To clarify in my message to Colin; the "extra" load that is put upon the crankshaft pulley from a too-tight vee-belt is a sideways load, out at the extreme end of the crank. Given that the Perkins only has three main bearings (instead of five), I expect that it is theoretically possible for such a force on the rotating crankshaft to set up a "harmonic wave" in the crank, with disastrous results.
      >
      >   Russ
      >
      > p.s. It's comforting to me to know that you still monitor this forum. Once a Nick man, always a Nick man, eh?
      >
      > On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Russ,
      >
      > I've been following the thread, but hadn't chimed in yet because I'm
      > not sure I have much extra to add.   Some things are puzzling me
      > however:-
      >
      > Whilst I'm familiar with the concept of localized overheating, I
      > struggle to understand how this could have affected lube oil pressure
      > to the little end bearings or the crankshaft.  Usually a top end
      > overheat will warp the head and cause a cylinder head gasket to go, or
      > perhaps in severe cases damage a piston and score the bore, but it
      > would be unlikely to affect the bottom end of the engine.
      >
      > Based on the described symptoms of a loose/squeaky alternator belt,
      > there should still have been some coolant circulation, so I suspect
      > more is going on than meets the eye.  Perhaps there was a severe drop
      > in oil pressure, but not enough to trigger the (5psi) alarm?  This
      > could explain the knocking sounds, especially if the reduction in oil
      > pressure were to a failed bearing shell.   If it were me, I'd perform a
      > compression check of all cylinders, and then run the engine (if
      > possible) with a manual oil pressure gauge hooked up.
      >
      > As far as diesel rebuilds are concerned, £2500 seems like a reasonable
      > figure.  Last time my shop sent out a Yanmar 3GM for rebuild, it cost
      > around $4500 from the regional distributor Mack Boring.  Similar to
      > Colin on Trutz, the owner wanted to avoid the expense of repowering
      > with a physically different engine which would require more radical
      > "surgery" to make everything fit.
      >
      > Balmar and other high output externally regulated alternators do
      > require a decent sized belt if you want to support sustained charge
      > rates over 60-70A.  The minimum I would settle for would be a 1/2" belt
      > on a 100-120A unit, and dual belts on anything bigger.  Belt alignment
      > is also critical, and if you see excessive belt dust, take it as a sign
      > that something isn't quite right.
      >
      > Finally, I would add that breaking a crank on a sailboat diesel takes
      > either incredibly bad luck or a significant event such as a hydro
      > lock.  It's certainly not a common occurrence!!
      >
      > Regards
      > Graham
      >
      > On 7/9/2010 8:08 PM, O. R. Armstrong wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Colin,
      >
      >     I read with somewhat morbid curiosity your tale of woe. The Perkins
      > 4-108 on Yankee died about two-and-a-half years ago, eventually
      > diagnosed as a broken crankshaft. I had the time available and wanted
      > to save some money, so I figured out how to remove the engine from the
      > boat myself. I posted a few photos near the end of the pictures section
      > of this forum, right near the Trutz gallery. It was a one-day job. The
      > key was to find a small chain hoist for $26 US. I have a more detailed
      > description of the process that I could e-mail to you if you’d like.
      >
      >     I had the Perkins re-built at Trans-Atlantic Diesel in White Post,
      > Virginia (Marcus Neville, a proper Englishman, proprietor. After
      > dropping off the broken engine, I returned the next day for the results
      > of the autopsy. When I got out of the car,  I noticed that the flag at
      > his shop was flying at half-mast.
      > Marcus hailed me from his office window and I asked who died. “Your
      > engine!” he replied.) The crank had indeed broken right in the middle.
      > and the webbing in the block holding the middle main bearing was also
      > cracked, necessitating a new block, too. Hard to tell what might have
      > caused the break; the engine only had 1800 hours on its Perkins clock,
      > but I suspect the clock was wrong, because the engine was 33 years old.
      > Marcus thought it possible that the main bearing cap had been
      > over-torqued at a prior overhaul. In addition to the re-build, I added
      > new engine instrumentation, and a later version of the Bowman heat
      > exchanger, so my total bill was quite a bit more than what you’re being
      > quoted.
      >
      >     The empty bay did provide an excellent opportunity for cleaning and
      > painting, and replacing bilge pump hoses, etc. We later sailed Yankee
      > some 60 miles
      >
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      >
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    • wispcb
      John, I would echo Jim s method of using a gear puller as opposed to a hammer. I ve pulled my wheel several times (the old A-frame type) and just a very little
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 23, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        John,
        I would echo Jim's method of using a gear puller as opposed to a hammer. I've pulled my wheel several times (the old A-frame type) and just a very little pressure on the puller and the wheel pop's right off. No dents, no dings. Keep the hammer for home repairs.
        Rick, 'Wisp' CN35 141

        --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, JIM TEIPEN <jteipen@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > John,
        > I also have the original frame pedestal and have always had to use a gear puller to get the steering wheel off even though I apply a light coating of grease to the spindle before putting it back on. I think the gear puller ultimately puts less stress on the parts of the wheel most prone to damage than would other methods such as lubricant and a hammer. Also, I always place a sturdy coin where the gear puller contacts the threaded spindle so that I don't damage the threads.
        >
        > Jim S/V AlegriaCN-35 68
        >
        >
        > > To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
        > > From: gall.john.j@...
        > > Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:57:58 -0400
        > > Subject: [campernicholson] Wheel removal
        > >
        > > Does anyone know if I need a gear pulled to take the steering wheel off?
        > >
        > > I've the original a frame pedastal. But no drawings or instructions
        > >
        > > j
        > >
        > > On Saturday, July 10, 2010, <colin@...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Dear all,
        > > >
        > > > Thank you so much for all of your comments on this topic which have been really useful and informative.
        > > >
        > > > When the engine is stripped down I will have a better idea of exactly what caused the breakdown and will report back. If I can get any pictures I will post them on here.
        > > >
        > > > I am pretty sure that I had the belt too tight and that as I mentioned earlier, it was an incorrect width so I feel the cold hand of culpability resting upon my shoulder!
        > > >
        > > > This leads me to suspect the crankshaft bearing theory (hopefully without a crack in the shaft). We had no oil pressure warning (I will fit a siren now) so hopefully the rattle we hear is crankshaft related. The engine starts and runs fine when cool but once you get it warm and run up to 1500 revs or so you get the rattle.
        > > >
        > > > It would be helpful if the small ends are ok as perkins are saying that they only supply them as part of an assembly with the con rods. Expensive.
        > > >
        > > > Thanks once again to all and fair winds.
        > > >
        > > > Rgds
        > > >
        > > > ColinColin Campbell-Dunlop
        > > > Azure Consulting
        > > > 68 King William Street
        > > > London EC4N 7DZ
        > > > +44 20 7193 4232
        > > > www.azure-consulting.comFrom: "O. R. Armstrong" <russ.armstrong@...>
        > > > Sender: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 22:31:25 -0500To: Graham Norbury<gnorbury@...>ReplyTo: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Cc: <campernicholson@yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Death of 'Mr Perkins'
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Graham, et al:
        > > >
        > > > To clarify in my message to Colin; the "extra" load that is put upon the crankshaft pulley from a too-tight vee-belt is a sideways load, out at the extreme end of the crank. Given that the Perkins only has three main bearings (instead of five), I expect that it is theoretically possible for such a force on the rotating crankshaft to set up a "harmonic wave" in the crank, with disastrous results.
        > > >
        > > > Russ
        > > >
        > > > p.s. It's comforting to me to know that you still monitor this forum. Once a Nick man, always a Nick man, eh?
        > > >
        > > > On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Russ,
        > > >
        > > > I've been following the thread, but hadn't chimed in yet because I'm
        > > > not sure I have much extra to add. Some things are puzzling me
        > > > however:-
        > > >
        > > > Whilst I'm familiar with the concept of localized overheating, I
        > > > struggle to understand how this could have affected lube oil pressure
        > > > to the little end bearings or the crankshaft. Usually a top end
        > > > overheat will warp the head and cause a cylinder head gasket to go, or
        > > > perhaps in severe cases damage a piston and score the bore, but it
        > > > would be unlikely to affect the bottom end of the engine.
        > > >
        > > > Based on the described symptoms of a loose/squeaky alternator belt,
        > > > there should still have been some coolant circulation, so I suspect
        > > > more is going on than meets the eye. Perhaps there was a severe drop
        > > > in oil pressure, but not enough to trigger the (5psi) alarm? This
        > > > could explain the knocking sounds, especially if the reduction in oil
        > > > pressure were to a failed bearing shell. If it were me, I'd perform a
        > > > compression check of all cylinders, and then run the engine (if
        > > > possible) with a manual oil pressure gauge hooked up.
        > > >
        > > > As far as diesel rebuilds are concerned, £2500 seems like a reasonable
        > > > figure. Last time my shop sent out a Yanmar 3GM for rebuild, it cost
        > > > around $4500 from the regional distributor Mack Boring. Similar to
        > > > Colin on Trutz, the owner wanted to avoid the expense of repowering
        > > > with a physically different engine which would require more radical
        > > > "surgery" to make everything fit.
        > > >
        > > > Balmar and other high output externally regulated alternators do
        > > > require a decent sized belt if you want to support sustained charge
        > > > rates over 60-70A. The minimum I would settle for would be a 1/2" belt
        > > > on a 100-120A unit, and dual belts on anything bigger. Belt alignment
        > > > is also critical, and if you see excessive belt dust, take it as a sign
        > > > that something isn't quite right.
        > > >
        > > > Finally, I would add that breaking a crank on a sailboat diesel takes
        > > > either incredibly bad luck or a significant event such as a hydro
        > > > lock. It's certainly not a common occurrence!!
        > > >
        > > > Regards
        > > > Graham
        > > >
        > > > On 7/9/2010 8:08 PM, O. R. Armstrong wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Colin,
        > > >
        > > > I read with somewhat morbid curiosity your tale of woe. The Perkins
        > > > 4-108 on Yankee died about two-and-a-half years ago, eventually
        > > > diagnosed as a broken crankshaft. I had the time available and wanted
        > > > to save some money, so I figured out how to remove the engine from the
        > > > boat myself. I posted a few photos near the end of the pictures section
        > > > of this forum, right near the Trutz gallery. It was a one-day job. The
        > > > key was to find a small chain hoist for $26 US. I have a more detailed
        > > > description of the process that I could e-mail to you if you'd like.
        > > >
        > > > I had the Perkins re-built at Trans-Atlantic Diesel in White Post,
        > > > Virginia (Marcus Neville, a proper Englishman, proprietor. After
        > > > dropping off the broken engine, I returned the next day for the results
        > > > of the autopsy. When I got out of the car, I noticed that the flag at
        > > > his shop was flying at half-mast.
        > > > Marcus hailed me from his office window and I asked who died. "Your
        > > > engine!" he replied.) The crank had indeed broken right in the middle.
        > > > and the webbing in the block holding the middle main bearing was also
        > > > cracked, necessitating a new block, too. Hard to tell what might have
        > > > caused the break; the engine only had 1800 hours on its Perkins clock,
        > > > but I suspect the clock was wrong, because the engine was 33 years old.
        > > > Marcus thought it possible that the main bearing cap had been
        > > > over-torqued at a prior overhaul. In addition to the re-build, I added
        > > > new engine instrumentation, and a later version of the Bowman heat
        > > > exchanger, so my total bill was quite a bit more than what you're being
        > > > quoted.
        > > >
        > > > The empty bay did provide an excellent opportunity for cleaning and
        > > > painting, and replacing bilge pump hoses, etc. We later sailed Yankee
        > > > some 60 miles
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > _________________________________________________________________
        > The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail.
        > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4
        >
      • John Gall
        Thanks all. The gear pulled worked like a charm. Unfortunately, I forgot the admonition about the coin and now I have some bent threads to deal with does it
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 27, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Thanks all. The gear pulled worked like a charm. Unfortunately, I
          forgot the admonition about the coin and now I have some bent threads
          to deal with

          does it ever end ?

          Never mind , I know !

          Thanks again

          j

          On Friday, July 23, 2010, wispcb <wisp03@...> wrote:
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          >
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          >
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          >
          >
          > John,
          > I would echo Jim's method of using a gear puller as opposed to a hammer. I've pulled my wheel several times (the old A-frame type) and just a very little pressure on the puller and the wheel pop's right off. No dents, no dings. Keep the hammer for home repairs.
          > Rick, 'Wisp' CN35 141
          >
          > --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, JIM TEIPEN <jteipen@...> wrote:
          >>
          >>
          >> John,
          >> I also have the original frame pedestal and have always had to use a gear puller to get the steering wheel off even though I apply a light coating of grease to the spindle before putting it back on. I think the gear puller ultimately puts less stress on the parts of the wheel most prone to damage than would other methods such as lubricant and a hammer. Also, I always place a sturdy coin where the gear puller contacts the threaded spindle so that I don't damage the threads.
          >>
          >> Jim S/V AlegriaCN-35 68
          >>
          >>
          >> > To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
          >> > From: gall.john.j@...
          >> > Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:57:58 -0400
          >> > Subject: [campernicholson] Wheel removal
          >> >
          >> > Does anyone know if I need a gear pulled to take the steering wheel off?
          >> >
          >> > I've the original a frame pedastal. But no drawings or instructions
          >> >
          >> > j
          >> >
          >> > On Saturday, July 10, 2010, <colin@...> wrote:
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > > Dear all,
          >> > >
          >> > > Thank you so much for all of your comments on this topic which have been really useful and informative.
          >> > >
          >> > > When the engine is stripped down I will have a better idea of exactly what caused the breakdown and will report back. If I can get any pictures I will post them on here.
          >> > >
          >> > > I am pretty sure that I had the belt too tight and that as I mentioned earlier, it was an incorrect width so I feel the cold hand of culpability resting upon my shoulder!
          >> > >
          >> > > This leads me to suspect the crankshaft bearing theory (hopefully without a crack in the shaft). We had no oil pressure warning (I will fit a siren now) so hopefully the rattle we hear is crankshaft related. The engine starts and runs fine when cool but once you get it warm and run up to 1500 revs or so you get the rattle.
          >> > >
          >> > > It would be helpful if the small ends are ok as perkins are saying that they only supply them as part of an assembly with the con rods. Expensive.
          >> > >
          >> > > Thanks once again to all and fair winds.
          >> > >
          >> > > Rgds
          >> > >
          >> > > ColinColin Campbell-Dunlop
          >> > > Azure Consulting
          >> > > 68 King William Street
          >> > > London EC4N 7DZ
          >> > > +44 20 7193 4232
          >> > > www.azure-consulting.comFrom: "O. R. Armstrong" <russ.armstrong@...>
          >> > > Sender: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
          >> > > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 22:31:25 -0500To: Graham Norbury<gnorbury@...>ReplyTo: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
          >> > > Cc: <campernicholson@yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Death of 'Mr Perkins'
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > > Graham, et al:
          >> > >
          >> > > To clarify in my message to Colin; the "extra" load that is put upon the crankshaft pulley from a too-tight vee-belt is a sideways load, out at the extreme end of the crank. Given that the Perkins only has three main bearings (instead of five), I expect that it is theoretically possible for such a force on the rotating crankshaft to set up a "harmonic wave" in the crank, with disastrous results.
          >> > >
          >> > > Russ
          >> > >
          >> > > p.s. It's comforting to me to know that you still monitor this forum. Once a Nick man, always a Nick man, eh?
          >> > >
          >> > > On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...> wrote:
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > > Russ,
          >> > >
          >> > > I've been following the thread, but hadn't chimed in yet because I'm
          >> > > not sure I have much extra to add. Some things are puzzling me
          >> > > however:-
          >> > >
          >> > > Whilst I'm familiar with the concept of localized overheating, I
          >> > > struggle to understand how this could have affected lube oil pressure
          >> > > to the little end bearings or the crankshaft. Usually a top end
          >> > > overheat will warp the head and cause a cylinder head gasket to go, or
          >> > > perhaps in severe cases damage a piston and score the bore, but it
          >> > > would be unlikely to affect the bottom end of the engine.
          >> > >
          >> > > Based on the described symptoms of a loose/squeaky alternator belt,
          >> > > there should still have been some coolant circulation, so I suspect
          >> > > more is going on than meets the eye. Perhaps there was a severe drop
          >> > > in oil pressure, but not enough to trigger the (5psi) alarm? This
          >> > > could explain the knocking sounds, especially if the reduction in oil
          >> > > pressure were to a failed bearing shell. If it were me, I'd perform a
          >> > > compression check of all cylinders, and then run the engine (if
          >> > > possible) with a manual oil pressure gauge hooked up.
          >> > >
          >> > > As far as diesel rebuilds are concerned, £2500 seems like a reasonable
          >> > > figure. Last time my shop sent out a Yanmar 3GM for rebuild, it cost
          >> > > around $4500 from the regional distributor Mack Boring. Similar to
          >> > > Colin on Trutz, the owner wanted to avoid the expense of repowering
          >> > > with a physically different engine which would require more radical
          >> > > "surgery" to make everything fit.
          >> > >
          >> > > Balmar and other high output externally regulated alternators do
          >> > > require a decent sized belt if you want to support sustained charge
          >> > > rates over 60-70A. The minimum I would settle for would be a 1/2" belt
          >> > > on a 100-120A unit, and dual belts on anything bigger. Belt alignment
          >> > > is also critical, and if you see excessive belt dust, take it as a sign
          >> > > that something isn't quite right.
          >> > >
          >> > > Finally, I would add that breaking a crank on a sailboat diesel takes
          >> > > either incredibly bad luck or a significant event such as a hydro
          >> > > lock. It's certainly not a common occurrence!!
          >> > >
          >> > > Regards
          >> > > Graham
          >> > >
          >> > > On 7/9/2010 8:08 PM, O. R. Armstrong wrote:
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > >
          >> > > Colin,
          >> > >
          >> > > I read with somewhat morbid curiosity your tale of woe. The Perkins
          >> > > 4-108 on Yankee died about two-and-a-half years ago, eventually
          >> > > diagnosed as a broken crankshaft. I had the time available and wanted
          >> > > to save some money, so I figured out how to remove the engine from the
          >> > > boat myself. I posted a few photos near the end of the pictures section
          >> > > of this forum, right near the Trutz gallery. It was a one-day job. The
          >> > > key was to find a small chain hoist for $26 US. I have a more detailed
          >> > > description of the process that I could e-mail to you if you'd like.
          >> > >
          >> > > I had the Perkins re-built at Trans-Atlantic Diesel in White Post,
          >> > > Virginia (Marcus Neville, a proper Englishman, proprietor. After
          >> > > dropping off the broken engine, I returned the next day for the results
          >> > > of the autopsy. When I got out of the car, I noticed that the flag at
          >> > > his shop was flying at half-mast.
          >> > > Marcus hailed me from his office window and I asked who died. "Your
          >> > > engine!" he replied.) The crank had indeed broken right in the middle.
          >> > > and the webbing in the block holding the middle main bearing was also
          >> > > cracked, necessitating a new block, too. Hard to tell what might have
          >> > > caused the break; the engine only had 1800 hours on its Perkins clock,
          >> > > but I suspect the clock was wrong, because the engine was 33 years old.
          >> > > Marcus thought it possible that the main bearing cap had been
          >> > > ove
          >> __________________________________________________________
          >> The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail.
          >> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4
          >>
          >
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        • Graham Norbury
          Either find the correct size die to chase the threads, or use a thread-file and carefully dress them by hand. Graham
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 27, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Either find the correct size die to chase the threads, or use a
            thread-file and carefully dress them by hand.

            Graham

            On 7/27/2010 5:54 PM, John Gall wrote:
            > Thanks all. The gear pulled worked like a charm. Unfortunately, I
            > forgot the admonition about the coin and now I have some bent threads
            > to deal with
            >
            > does it ever end ?
            >
            > Never mind , I know !
            >
            > Thanks again
            >
            > j
            >
            > On Friday, July 23, 2010, wispcb<wisp03@...> wrote:
            >
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> John,
            >> I would echo Jim's method of using a gear puller as opposed to a hammer. I've pulled my wheel several times (the old A-frame type) and just a very little pressure on the puller and the wheel pop's right off. No dents, no dings. Keep the hammer for home repairs.
            >> Rick, 'Wisp' CN35 141
            >>
            >> --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, JIM TEIPEN<jteipen@...> wrote:
            >>
            >>>
            >>> John,
            >>> I also have the original frame pedestal and have always had to use a gear puller to get the steering wheel off even though I apply a light coating of grease to the spindle before putting it back on. I think the gear puller ultimately puts less stress on the parts of the wheel most prone to damage than would other methods such as lubricant and a hammer. Also, I always place a sturdy coin where the gear puller contacts the threaded spindle so that I don't damage the threads.
            >>>
            >>> Jim S/V AlegriaCN-35 68
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>> To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
            >>>> From: gall.john.j@...
            >>>> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:57:58 -0400
            >>>> Subject: [campernicholson] Wheel removal
            >>>>
            >>>> Does anyone know if I need a gear pulled to take the steering wheel off?
            >>>>
            >>>> I've the original a frame pedastal. But no drawings or instructions
            >>>>
            >>>> j
            >>>>
            >>>> On Saturday, July 10, 2010,<colin@...> wrote:
            >>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Dear all,
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Thank you so much for all of your comments on this topic which have been really useful and informative.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> When the engine is stripped down I will have a better idea of exactly what caused the breakdown and will report back. If I can get any pictures I will post them on here.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> I am pretty sure that I had the belt too tight and that as I mentioned earlier, it was an incorrect width so I feel the cold hand of culpability resting upon my shoulder!
            >>>>>
            >>>>> This leads me to suspect the crankshaft bearing theory (hopefully without a crack in the shaft). We had no oil pressure warning (I will fit a siren now) so hopefully the rattle we hear is crankshaft related. The engine starts and runs fine when cool but once you get it warm and run up to 1500 revs or so you get the rattle.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> It would be helpful if the small ends are ok as perkins are saying that they only supply them as part of an assembly with the con rods. Expensive.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Thanks once again to all and fair winds.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Rgds
            >>>>>
            >>>>> ColinColin Campbell-Dunlop
            >>>>> Azure Consulting
            >>>>> 68 King William Street
            >>>>> London EC4N 7DZ
            >>>>> +44 20 7193 4232
            >>>>> www.azure-consulting.comFrom: "O. R. Armstrong"<russ.armstrong@...>
            >>>>> Sender: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
            >>>>> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 22:31:25 -0500To: Graham Norbury<gnorbury@...>ReplyTo: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
            >>>>> Cc:<campernicholson@yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Death of 'Mr Perkins'
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Graham, et al:
            >>>>>
            >>>>> To clarify in my message to Colin; the "extra" load that is put upon the crankshaft pulley from a too-tight vee-belt is a sideways load, out at the extreme end of the crank. Given that the Perkins only has three main bearings (instead of five), I expect that it is theoretically possible for such a force on the rotating crankshaft to set up a "harmonic wave" in the crank, with disastrous results.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Russ
            >>>>>
            >>>>> p.s. It's comforting to me to know that you still monitor this forum. Once a Nick man, always a Nick man, eh?
            >>>>>
            >>>>> On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Graham Norbury<gnorbury@...> wrote:
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Russ,
            >>>>>
            >>>>> I've been following the thread, but hadn't chimed in yet because I'm
            >>>>> not sure I have much extra to add. Some things are puzzling me
            >>>>> however:-
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Whilst I'm familiar with the concept of localized overheating, I
            >>>>> struggle to understand how this could have affected lube oil pressure
            >>>>> to the little end bearings or the crankshaft. Usually a top end
            >>>>> overheat will warp the head and cause a cylinder head gasket to go, or
            >>>>> perhaps in severe cases damage a piston and score the bore, but it
            >>>>> would be unlikely to affect the bottom end of the engine.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Based on the described symptoms of a loose/squeaky alternator belt,
            >>>>> there should still have been some coolant circulation, so I suspect
            >>>>> more is going on than meets the eye. Perhaps there was a severe drop
            >>>>> in oil pressure, but not enough to trigger the (5psi) alarm? This
            >>>>> could explain the knocking sounds, especially if the reduction in oil
            >>>>> pressure were to a failed bearing shell. If it were me, I'd perform a
            >>>>> compression check of all cylinders, and then run the engine (if
            >>>>> possible) with a manual oil pressure gauge hooked up.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> As far as diesel rebuilds are concerned, £2500 seems like a reasonable
            >>>>> figure. Last time my shop sent out a Yanmar 3GM for rebuild, it cost
            >>>>> around $4500 from the regional distributor Mack Boring. Similar to
            >>>>> Colin on Trutz, the owner wanted to avoid the expense of repowering
            >>>>> with a physically different engine which would require more radical
            >>>>> "surgery" to make everything fit.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Balmar and other high output externally regulated alternators do
            >>>>> require a decent sized belt if you want to support sustained charge
            >>>>> rates over 60-70A. The minimum I would settle for would be a 1/2" belt
            >>>>> on a 100-120A unit, and dual belts on anything bigger. Belt alignment
            >>>>> is also critical, and if you see excessive belt dust, take it as a sign
            >>>>> that something isn't quite right.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Finally, I would add that breaking a crank on a sailboat diesel takes
            >>>>> either incredibly bad luck or a significant event such as a hydro
            >>>>> lock. It's certainly not a common occurrence!!
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Regards
            >>>>> Graham
            >>>>>
            >>>>> On 7/9/2010 8:08 PM, O. R. Armstrong wrote:
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Colin,
            >>>>>
            >>>>> I read with somewhat morbid curiosity your tale of woe. The Perkins
            >>>>> 4-108 on Yankee died about two-and-a-half years ago, eventually
            >>>>> diagnosed as a broken crankshaft. I had the time available and wanted
            >>>>> to save some money, so I figured out how to remove the engine from the
            >>>>> boat myself. I posted a few photos near the end of the pictures section
            >>>>> of this forum, right near the Trutz gallery. It was a one-day job. The
            >>>>> key was to find a small chain hoist for $26 US. I have a more detailed
            >>>>> description of the process that I could e-mail to you if you'd like.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> I had the Perkins re-built at Trans-Atlantic Diesel in White Post,
            >>>>> Virginia (Marcus Neville, a proper Englishman, proprietor. After
            >>>>> dropping off the broken engine, I returned the next day for the results
            >>>>> of the autopsy. When I got out of the car, I noticed that the flag at
            >>>>> his shop was flying at half-mast.
            >>>>> Marcus hailed me from his office window and I asked who died. "Your
            >>>>> engine!" he replied.) The crank had indeed broken right in the middle.
            >>>>> and the webbing in the block holding the middle main bearing was also
            >>>>> cracked, necessitating a new block, too. Hard to tell what might have
            >>>>> caused the break; the engine only had 1800 hours on its Perkins clock,
            >>>>> but I suspect the clock was wrong, because the engine was 33 years old.
            >>>>> Marcus thought it possible that the main bearing cap had been
            >>>>> ove
            >>>>>
            >>> __________________________________________________________
            >>> The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail.
            >>> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4
            >>>
            >>>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • John Gall
            Thanks all. The gear pulled worked like a charm. Unfortunately, I forgot the admonition about the coin and now I have some bent threads to deal with does it
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 28, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Thanks all. The gear pulled worked like a charm. Unfortunately, I
              forgot the admonition about the coin and now I have some bent threads
              to deal with

              does it ever end ?

              Never mind , I know !

              Thanks again

              j

              On Friday, July 23, 2010, wispcb <wisp03@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > John,
              > I would echo Jim's method of using a gear puller as opposed to a hammer. I've pulled my wheel several times (the old A-frame type) and just a very little pressure on the puller and the wheel pop's right off. No dents, no dings. Keep the hammer for home repairs.
              > Rick, 'Wisp' CN35 141
              >
              > --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, JIM TEIPEN <jteipen@...> wrote:
              >>
              >>
              >> John,
              >> I also have the original frame pedestal and have always had to use a gear puller to get the steering wheel off even though I apply a light coating of grease to the spindle before putting it back on. I think the gear puller ultimately puts less stress on the parts of the wheel most prone to damage than would other methods such as lubricant and a hammer. Also, I always place a sturdy coin where the gear puller contacts the threaded spindle so that I don't damage the threads.
              >>
              >> Jim S/V AlegriaCN-35 68
              >>
              >>
              >> > To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
              >> > From: gall.john.j@...
              >> > Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 08:57:58 -0400
              >> > Subject: [campernicholson] Wheel removal
              >> >
              >> > Does anyone know if I need a gear pulled to take the steering wheel off?
              >> >
              >> > I've the original a frame pedastal. But no drawings or instructions
              >> >
              >> > j
              >> >
              >> > On Saturday, July 10, 2010, <colin@...> wrote:
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > > Dear all,
              >> > >
              >> > > Thank you so much for all of your comments on this topic which have been really useful and informative.
              >> > >
              >> > > When the engine is stripped down I will have a better idea of exactly what caused the breakdown and will report back. If I can get any pictures I will post them on here.
              >> > >
              >> > > I am pretty sure that I had the belt too tight and that as I mentioned earlier, it was an incorrect width so I feel the cold hand of culpability resting upon my shoulder!
              >> > >
              >> > > This leads me to suspect the crankshaft bearing theory (hopefully without a crack in the shaft). We had no oil pressure warning (I will fit a siren now) so hopefully the rattle we hear is crankshaft related. The engine starts and runs fine when cool but once you get it warm and run up to 1500 revs or so you get the rattle.
              >> > >
              >> > > It would be helpful if the small ends are ok as perkins are saying that they only supply them as part of an assembly with the con rods. Expensive.
              >> > >
              >> > > Thanks once again to all and fair winds.
              >> > >
              >> > > Rgds
              >> > >
              >> > > ColinColin Campbell-Dunlop
              >> > > Azure Consulting
              >> > > 68 King William Street
              >> > > London EC4N 7DZ
              >> > > +44 20 7193 4232
              >> > > www.azure-consulting.comFrom: "O. R. Armstrong" <russ.armstrong@...>
              >> > > Sender: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
              >> > > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 22:31:25 -0500To: Graham Norbury<gnorbury@...>ReplyTo: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
              >> > > Cc: <campernicholson@yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Death of 'Mr Perkins'
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > > Graham, et al:
              >> > >
              >> > > To clarify in my message to Colin; the "extra" load that is put upon the crankshaft pulley from a too-tight vee-belt is a sideways load, out at the extreme end of the crank. Given that the Perkins only has three main bearings (instead of five), I expect that it is theoretically possible for such a force on the rotating crankshaft to set up a "harmonic wave" in the crank, with disastrous results.
              >> > >
              >> > > Russ
              >> > >
              >> > > p.s. It's comforting to me to know that you still monitor this forum. Once a Nick man, always a Nick man, eh?
              >> > >
              >> > > On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...> wrote:
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > > Russ,
              >> > >
              >> > > I've been following the thread, but hadn't chimed in yet because I'm
              >> > > not sure I have much extra to add. Some things are puzzling me
              >> > > however:-
              >> > >
              >> > > Whilst I'm familiar with the concept of localized overheating, I
              >> > > struggle to understand how this could have affected lube oil pressure
              >> > > to the little end bearings or the crankshaft. Usually a top end
              >> > > overheat will warp the head and cause a cylinder head gasket to go, or
              >> > > perhaps in severe cases damage a piston and score the bore, but it
              >> > > would be unlikely to affect the bottom end of the engine.
              >> > >
              >> > > Based on the described symptoms of a loose/squeaky alternator belt,
              >> > > there should still have been some coolant circulation, so I suspect
              >> > > more is going on than meets the eye. Perhaps there was a severe drop
              >> > > in oil pressure, but not enough to trigger the (5psi) alarm? This
              >> > > could explain the knocking sounds, especially if the reduction in oil
              >> > > pressure were to a failed bearing shell. If it were me, I'd perform a
              >> > > compression check of all cylinders, and then run the engine (if
              >> > > possible) with a manual oil pressure gauge hooked up.
              >> > >
              >> > > As far as diesel rebuilds are concerned, £2500 seems like a reasonable
              >> > > figure. Last time my shop sent out a Yanmar 3GM for rebuild, it cost
              >> > > around $4500 from the regional distributor Mack Boring. Similar to
              >> > > Colin on Trutz, the owner wanted to avoid the expense of repowering
              >> > > with a physically different engine which would require more radical
              >> > > "surgery" to make everything fit.
              >> > >
              >> > > Balmar and other high output externally regulated alternators do
              >> > > require a decent sized belt if you want to support sustained charge
              >> > > rates over 60-70A. The minimum I would settle for would be a 1/2" belt
              >> > > on a 100-120A unit, and dual belts on anything bigger. Belt alignment
              >> > > is also critical, and if you see excessive belt dust, take it as a sign
              >> > > that something isn't quite right.
              >> > >
              >> > > Finally, I would add that breaking a crank on a sailboat diesel takes
              >> > > either incredibly bad luck or a significant event such as a hydro
              >> > > lock. It's certainly not a common occurrence!!
              >> > >
              >> > > Regards
              >> > > Graham
              >> > >
              >> > > On 7/9/2010 8:08 PM, O. R. Armstrong wrote:
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > > Colin,
              >> > >
              >> > > I read with somewhat morbid curiosity your tale of woe. The Perkins
              >> > > 4-108 on Yankee died about two-and-a-half years ago, eventually
              >> > > diagnosed as a broken crankshaft. I had the time available and wanted
              >> > > to save some money, so I figured out how to remove the engine from the
              >> > > boat myself. I posted a few photos near the end of the pictures section
              >> > > of this forum, right near the Trutz gallery. It was a one-day job. The
              >> > > key was to find a small chain hoist for $26 US. I have a more detailed
              >> > > description of the process that I could e-mail to you if you'd like.
              >> > >
              >> > > I had the Perkins re-built at Trans-Atlantic Diesel in White Post,
              >> > > Virginia (Marcus Neville, a proper Englishman, proprietor. After
              >> > > dropping off the broken engine, I returned the next day for the results
              >> > > of the autopsy. When I got out of the car, I noticed that the flag at
              >> > > his shop was flying at half-mast.
              >> > > Marcus hailed me from his office window and I asked who died. "Your
              >> > > engine!" he replied.) The crank had indeed broken right in the middle.
              >> > > and the webbing in the block holding the middle main bearing was also
              >> > > cracked, necessitating a new block, too. Hard to tell what might have
              >> > > caused the break; the engine only had 1800 hours on its Perkins clock,
              >> > > but I suspect the clock was wrong, because the engine was 33 years old.
              >> > > Marcus thought it possible that the main bearing cap had been
              >> > > ove
              >> __________________________________________________________
              >> The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail.
              >> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4
              >>
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            • galljj35
              Thanks for the pointers, Graham. I suspect this is some variant of a british thread size. It is a 3/8th s bolt, does anyone know the thread type ? thanks in
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 31, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Thanks for the pointers, Graham.

                I suspect this is some variant of a british thread size. It is a 3/8th's bolt, does anyone know the thread type ?

                thanks in advance

                john



                --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...> wrote:
                >
                > Either find the correct size die to chase the threads, or use a
                > thread-file and carefully dress them by hand.
                >
                > Graham
                >
                > On 7/27/2010 5:54 PM, John Gall wrote:
                > > Thanks all. The gear pulled worked like a charm. Unfortunately, I
                > > forgot the admonition about the coin and now I have some bent threads
                > > to deal with
                > >
                > > does it ever end ?
                > >
                > > Never mind , I know !
                > >
                > > Thanks again
                > >
                > > j
                > >
              • John Gall
                I figured it out 3/8 - 16 tap did the trick John
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 1, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  I figured it out 3/8 - 16 tap did the trick

                  John

                  On Saturday, July 31, 2010, galljj35 <gall.john.j@...> wrote:
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                  > Thanks for the pointers, Graham.
                  >
                  > I suspect this is some variant of a british thread size. It is a 3/8th's bolt, does anyone know the thread type ?
                  >
                  > thanks in advance
                  >
                  > john
                  >
                  > --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >> Either find the correct size die to chase the threads, or use a
                  >> thread-file and carefully dress them by hand.
                  >>
                  >> Graham
                  >>
                  >> On 7/27/2010 5:54 PM, John Gall wrote:
                  >> > Thanks all. The gear pulled worked like a charm. Unfortunately, I
                  >> > forgot the admonition about the coin and now I have some bent threads
                  >> > to deal with
                  >> >
                  >> > does it ever end ?
                  >> >
                  >> > Never mind , I know !
                  >> >
                  >> > Thanks again
                  >> >
                  >> > j
                  >> >
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