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Speed under motoring (4.7 knots at 2.000 rpm)

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  • JFR
    My CN has a 35hp Piranha engine with a two-blade folding propeller. With revs at 2.000 rpm, she sails at 4.7 knots in a flat sea and virtually no-wind. Such a
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 3, 2010
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      My CN has a 35hp Piranha engine with a two-blade folding propeller. With revs at 2.000 rpm, she sails at 4.7 knots in a flat sea and virtually no-wind. Such a speed seems quite slow to me. Would anyone have figures that I can use as a benchmark ? Should I put in a 3-blade regular propeller ?
      Any advice will be welcome,

      JF Regnard
      CN35#207
    • tom1us2001a
      JF, Your speed sounds about right for 2K rpm. I usually motor at 2100 rpm and move along at a blistering 5 knots. I used to have a fixed 2 blade and now have a
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 3, 2010
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        JF,

        Your speed sounds about right for 2K rpm. I usually motor at 2100 rpm and move along at a blistering 5 knots. I used to have a fixed 2 blade and now have a feathering 3 blade. My speeds did not change (while motoring) with the change in props.

        A little more HP and less reduction in the transmission would help with motoring speeds. Its the 3:1 reduction in forward that limits our speed. Just not getting enough revs on the prop to push you faster. I've thought about changing the transmission to a higher ratio such as 2:1 (which would match the reduction in reverse) but I don't think the motor has enough HP to handle the extra stress and thus could not reach full power if needed. For now I will live with what it is, but if the engine ever needs rebuilding I would consider making some changes. It would be interesting to hear what others have changed (engine, trans) that improved speed and maneuvering power.

        Regards,

        Tom
        CN35-199 Dream


        --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, "JFR" <jfregnard@...> wrote:
        >
        > My CN has a 35hp Piranha engine with a two-blade folding propeller. With revs at 2.000 rpm, she sails at 4.7 knots in a flat sea and virtually no-wind. Such a speed seems quite slow to me. Would anyone have figures that I can use as a benchmark ? Should I put in a 3-blade regular propeller ?
        > Any advice will be welcome,
        >
        > JF Regnard
        > CN35#207
        >
      • Jean-F. Regnard
        Thank you so much, Tom ! Sincerely, JF  Jean-Francois REGNARD Skype ID : jf.regnard Ph : 33-613-176-149 ________________________________ From: tom1us2001a
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 3, 2010
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          Thank you so much, Tom !
          Sincerely,
          JF
           
          Jean-Francois REGNARD


          Skype ID : jf.regnard
          Ph : 33-613-176-149



          From: tom1us2001a <tom1us2001a@...>
          To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 3:34:17 PM
          Subject: [campernicholson] Re: Speed under motoring (4.7 knots at 2.000 rpm)

           


          JF,

          Your speed sounds about right for 2K rpm. I usually motor at 2100 rpm and move along at a blistering 5 knots. I used to have a fixed 2 blade and now have a feathering 3 blade. My speeds did not change (while motoring) with the change in props.

          A little more HP and less reduction in the transmission would help with motoring speeds. Its the 3:1 reduction in forward that limits our speed. Just not getting enough revs on the prop to push you faster. I've thought about changing the transmission to a higher ratio such as 2:1 (which would match the reduction in reverse) but I don't think the motor has enough HP to handle the extra stress and thus could not reach full power if needed. For now I will live with what it is, but if the engine ever needs rebuilding I would consider making some changes. It would be interesting to hear what others have changed (engine, trans) that improved speed and maneuvering power.

          Regards,

          Tom
          CN35-199 Dream

          --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, "JFR" <jfregnard@...> wrote:
          >
          > My CN has a 35hp Piranha engine with a two-blade folding propeller. With revs at 2.000 rpm, she sails at 4.7 knots in a flat sea and virtually no-wind. Such a speed seems quite slow to me. Would anyone have figures that I can use as a benchmark ? Should I put in a 3-blade regular propeller ?
          > Any advice will be welcome,
          >
          > JF Regnard
          > CN35#207
          >

        • wispcb
          Tom, The original engine in Wisp was a Watermota. From my understanding that was a light Ford truck engine, marinized for diesel useage on boats. I had
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 5, 2010
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            Tom,
            The original engine in 'Wisp' was a Watermota. From my understanding that was a light Ford truck engine, marinized for diesel useage on boats. I had problems a few years into my ownership and found it was cheaper to replace than rebuild. Old British parts shipped to Florida isn't cheap.
            The new engine (now 15+ years old) is a 3 cyl Perkin's M30 (27hp), a much smaller package than the orig 4 cyl Ford. The trans is the original Hurth v-drive with 2.5 to 1 reduction and original 2 blade prop. Maintenance task's are so much easier with the smaller overall size of the Perkin's.
            The Hurth shaft splines didn't match the new engines damper plate, so I had to have an adapter made. The original engine mounts were of no use at all, so I needed new mounts. I had some real alignment problems between shaft & trans, but I think they're finally resolved. But other than that, no problem mon.
            My normal cruising rpm is about 2300k, for a little better than 5 knots, and a lot less vibration than 2100k. It'll spin up to about 3000k, but that gets a little scary, so I stick to my smooth 2300k.
            Rick CN35 141-Wisp



            --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, "tom1us2001a" <tom1us2001a@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > JF,
            >
            > Your speed sounds about right for 2K rpm. I usually motor at 2100 rpm and move along at a blistering 5 knots. I used to have a fixed 2 blade and now have a feathering 3 blade. My speeds did not change (while motoring) with the change in props.
            >
            > A little more HP and less reduction in the transmission would help with motoring speeds. Its the 3:1 reduction in forward that limits our speed. Just not getting enough revs on the prop to push you faster. I've thought about changing the transmission to a higher ratio such as 2:1 (which would match the reduction in reverse) but I don't think the motor has enough HP to handle the extra stress and thus could not reach full power if needed. For now I will live with what it is, but if the engine ever needs rebuilding I would consider making some changes. It would be interesting to hear what others have changed (engine, trans) that improved speed and maneuvering power.
            >
            > Regards,
            >
            > Tom
            > CN35-199 Dream
            >
            >
            > --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, "JFR" <jfregnard@> wrote:
            > >
            > > My CN has a 35hp Piranha engine with a two-blade folding propeller. With revs at 2.000 rpm, she sails at 4.7 knots in a flat sea and virtually no-wind. Such a speed seems quite slow to me. Would anyone have figures that I can use as a benchmark ? Should I put in a 3-blade regular propeller ?
            > > Any advice will be welcome,
            > >
            > > JF Regnard
            > > CN35#207
            > >
            >
          • Peter Jørgensen
            Hi About the speed on your Nic, we had just returned from our holiday and the last 2,5 hours we were going by motor. This vinter we had installed a new Yanmar
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 30, 2010
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              Hi
              About the speed on your Nic, we had just returned from our holiday and the last 2,5 hours we were going by motor.
              This vinter we had installed a new Yanmar 3JH4 with a SD50 saildrive. At exactly 4,7 knots, the engine runs 1100 rpm. The only thing is that the mechanical log was stopped so I dont know what way the stream went but, this is now fixed and I will gladly write down the exact figures next time we sail out.
              I have to tell you that I had put on a Brunton Autoprop and this is the absolut best thing i´ve bought..... full pitch at rewers and the best, no sidewalk at all. Before we had a Watermota Seapanther with a Hurth V drive, and back then you could talk about sidewalk and poor steering in the tight marinas.
              When we runs 6 knots the engine runs around 1400 rpm.
               
              Peter 
              CN 187 / Addiena      


              From: JFR <jfregnard@...>
              To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 2:53:19 PM
              Subject: [campernicholson] Speed under motoring (4.7 knots at 2.000 rpm)

               

              My CN has a 35hp Piranha engine with a two-blade folding propeller. With revs at 2.000 rpm, she sails at 4.7 knots in a flat sea and virtually no-wind. Such a speed seems quite slow to me. Would anyone have figures that I can use as a benchmark ? Should I put in a 3-blade regular propeller ?
              Any advice will be welcome,

              JF Regnard
              CN35#207


            • Jean-F. Regnard
              Thank you for this information. I know there is something wrong with the engine of this wonderful yacht I have just acquired (CN35 # 207) ... What is a big job
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 30, 2010
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                Thank you for this information. I know there is something wrong with the engine of this wonderful yacht I have just acquired (CN35 # 207) ...
                What is a big job changing the engine below the cockpit ?
                Sincerely,
                JF
                 
                Jean-Francois REGNARD




                Skype ID : jf.regnard
                Ph : 33-613-176-149
                Tel : 02-96-91-40-07


                Adr : Park Ar MenRu
                Chemin du Phare
                Ploumanac'h, 22700 Perros-Guirec



                From: Peter Jørgensen <peterschoett@...>
                To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 9:02:49 PM
                Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Speed under motoring (4.7 knots at 2.000 rpm)

                 

                Hi
                About the speed on your Nic, we had just returned from our holiday and the last 2,5 hours we were going by motor.
                This vinter we had installed a new Yanmar 3JH4 with a SD50 saildrive. At exactly 4,7 knots, the engine runs 1100 rpm. The only thing is that the mechanical log was stopped so I dont know what way the stream went but, this is now fixed and I will gladly write down the exact figures next time we sail out.
                I have to tell you that I had put on a Brunton Autoprop and this is the absolut best thing i´ve bought..... full pitch at rewers and the best, no sidewalk at all. Before we had a Watermota Seapanther with a Hurth V drive, and back then you could talk about sidewalk and poor steering in the tight marinas.
                When we runs 6 knots the engine runs around 1400 rpm.
                 
                Peter 
                CN 187 / Addiena      


                From: JFR <jfregnard@yahoo. com>
                To: campernicholson@ yahoogroups. com
                Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 2:53:19 PM
                Subject: [campernicholson] Speed under motoring (4.7 knots at 2.000 rpm)

                 

                My CN has a 35hp Piranha engine with a two-blade folding propeller. With revs at 2.000 rpm, she sails at 4.7 knots in a flat sea and virtually no-wind. Such a speed seems quite slow to me. Would anyone have figures that I can use as a benchmark ? Should I put in a 3-blade regular propeller ?
                Any advice will be welcome,

                JF Regnard
                CN35#207


              • Peter Jørgensen
                It was a lot off hard work. It took me nearly all vinter. Because of the deep V-shape of the hull I had to extende the grp platform for the engine and I had
                Message 7 of 9 , Jul 30, 2010
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                  It was a lot off hard work. It took me nearly all vinter. Because of the deep V-shape of the hull I had to extende the grp platform for the engine and I had to close the hole from the schaft and the hole from the schaftsuporter (the thing that holdes the schaft on the outside. Not sure what it is called)
                  I would gladly send you some pictures of this operation (I had taken plenty ;-) )
                  The hard work did pay off and now she is a sweethart to steer and sail under power. Not to mention the silence.... You can hear the engine of course but, now it`s not anoing.
                  How do You like the steering cabability with the engine You got now....? before it was only very littel water from the proppeler that hit the rudder because the schaft had a very deep angel.
                   
                  Peter 
                  From: Jean-F. Regnard <jfregnard@...>

                  To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 10:10:57 PM
                  Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Speed under motoring (4.7 knots at 2.000 rpm)

                     

                  Thank you for this information. I know there is something wrong with the engine of this wonderful yacht I have just acquired (CN35 # 207) ...
                  What is a big job changing the engine below the cockpit ?
                  Sincerely,
                  JF
                   
                  Jean-Francois REGNARD




                  Skype ID : jf.regnard
                  Ph : 33-613-176-149
                  Tel : 02-96-91-40- 07


                  Adr : Park Ar MenRu
                  Chemin du Phare
                  Ploumanac'h, 22700 Perros-Guirec



                  From: Peter Jørgensen <peterschoett@ yahoo.com>
                  To: campernicholson@ yahoogroups. com
                  Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 9:02:49 PM
                  Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Speed under motoring (4.7 knots at 2.000 rpm)

                   

                  Hi
                  About the speed on your Nic, we had just returned from our holiday and the last 2,5 hours we were going by motor.
                  This vinter we had installed a new Yanmar 3JH4 with a SD50 saildrive. At exactly 4,7 knots, the engine runs 1100 rpm. The only thing is that the mechanical log was stopped so I dont know what way the stream went but, this is now fixed and I will gladly write down the exact figures next time we sail out.
                  I have to tell you that I had put on a Brunton Autoprop and this is the absolut best thing i´ve bought..... full pitch at rewers and the best, no sidewalk at all. Before we had a Watermota Seapanther with a Hurth V drive, and back then you could talk about sidewalk and poor steering in the tight marinas.
                  When we runs 6 knots the engine runs around 1400 rpm.
                   
                  Peter 
                  CN 187 / Addiena      


                  From: JFR <jfregnard@yahoo. com>
                  To: campernicholson@ yahoogroups. com
                  Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 2:53:19 PM
                  Subject: [campernicholson] Speed under motoring (4.7 knots at 2.000 rpm)

                   

                  My CN has a 35hp Piranha engine with a two-blade folding propeller. With revs at 2.000 rpm, she sails at 4.7 knots in a flat sea and virtually no-wind. Such a speed seems quite slow to me. Would anyone have figures that I can use as a benchmark ? Should I put in a 3-blade regular propeller ?
                  Any advice will be welcome,

                  JF Regnard
                  CN35#207



                • Geoff McBroom
                  Dear Jean-Francois, The Nic 35 has a great sailing performance - it would be a shame to ruin it by fitting a fixed 3-blader propeller. When I bought my boat in
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jul 31, 2010
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                    Dear Jean-Francois,
                    The Nic 35 has a great sailing performance - it would be a shame to ruin it by fitting a fixed 3-blader propeller.
                    When I bought my boat in 2007 I was very disappointed, she wouldn't move at all even after fitting new sails.
                    I fitted a 3-blade Brunton Autoprop two years ago and the boat was transformed and now sails like a demon. Winning the occasional race is so much better than always coming last with the fixed prop. (The change in our handicap doesn't seem to reflect the large improvement in performance.)
                    I think the steep angle of the N35 Mk 5 prop shaft requires a propeller with blades that  feather independently to the local flow direction, as with the Brunton prop. Blades which feather parallel to the shaft will be way out of line with the real flow direction.
                    The motoring performance hasn't suffered in any way, in fact reversing and motor-sailing are much improved. I've not noticed the claimed reduction in prop-walk though.
                    I hope this helps
                     
                    Best regards
                    Geoff McBroom
                    N35 FLY
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 9:10 PM
                    Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Speed under motoring (4.7 knots at 2.000 rpm)

                     

                    Thank you for this information. I know there is something wrong with the engine of this wonderful yacht I have just acquired (CN35 # 207) ...
                    What is a big job changing the engine below the cockpit ?
                    Sincerely,
                    JF
                     
                    Jean-Francois REGNARD




                    Skype ID : jf.regnard
                    Ph : 33-613-176-149
                    Tel : 02-96-91-40- 07


                    Adr : Park Ar MenRu
                    Chemin du Phare
                    Ploumanac'h, 22700 Perros-Guirec



                    From: Peter Jørgensen <peterschoett@ yahoo.com>
                    To: campernicholson@ yahoogroups. com
                    Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 9:02:49 PM
                    Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Speed under motoring (4.7 knots at 2.000 rpm)

                     

                    Hi
                    About the speed on your Nic, we had just returned from our holiday and the last 2,5 hours we were going by motor.
                    This vinter we had installed a new Yanmar 3JH4 with a SD50 saildrive. At exactly 4,7 knots, the engine runs 1100 rpm. The only thing is that the mechanical log was stopped so I dont know what way the stream went but, this is now fixed and I will gladly write down the exact figures next time we sail out.
                    I have to tell you that I had put on a Brunton Autoprop and this is the absolut best thing i´ve bought..... full pitch at rewers and the best, no sidewalk at all. Before we had a Watermota Seapanther with a Hurth V drive, and back then you could talk about sidewalk and poor steering in the tight marinas.
                    When we runs 6 knots the engine runs around 1400 rpm.
                     
                    Peter 
                    CN 187 / Addiena      


                    From: JFR <jfregnard@yahoo. com>
                    To: campernicholson@ yahoogroups. com
                    Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 2:53:19 PM
                    Subject: [campernicholson] Speed under motoring (4.7 knots at 2.000 rpm)

                     

                    My CN has a 35hp Piranha engine with a two-blade folding propeller. With revs at 2.000 rpm, she sails at 4.7 knots in a flat sea and virtually no-wind. Such a speed seems quite slow to me. Would anyone have figures that I can use as a benchmark ? Should I put in a 3-blade regular propeller ?
                    Any advice will be welcome,

                    JF Regnard
                    CN35#207


                  • Colin Campbell-Dunlop
                    I have just seen this post. I would agree with everything that Geoff has said regarding the Autoprop. We have a three blade version on our Nic 35 ‘Trutz’
                    Message 9 of 9 , Aug 2, 2010
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                      I have just seen this post.  I would agree with everything that Geoff has said regarding the Autoprop.  We have a three blade version on our Nic 35 ‘Trutz’ and it has made a great difference to the performance.  With our recent new sails she slips along nicely in just 8 knots of apparent wind.  Anything above 12 knots apparent and she really starts to move.  She originally had a fixed 2 blade prop which wasn’t too bad but it is definitely so much better now. 

                       

                      Colin

                       

                       

                       

                      From: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com [mailto:campernicholson@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Geoff McBroom
                      Sent: 31 July 2010 10:10
                      To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Speed under motoring (4.7 knots at 2.000 rpm)

                       

                       

                      

                      Dear Jean-Francois,

                      The Nic 35 has a great sailing performance - it would be a shame to ruin it by fitting a fixed 3-blader propeller.

                      When I bought my boat in 2007 I was very disappointed, she wouldn't move at all even after fitting new sails.

                      I fitted a 3-blade Brunton Autoprop two years ago and the boat was transformed and now sails like a demon. Winning the occasional race is so much better than always coming last with the fixed prop. (The change in our handicap doesn't seem to reflect the large improvement in performance.)

                      I think the steep angle of the N35 Mk 5 prop shaft requires a propeller with blades that  feather independently to the local flow direction, as with the Brunton prop. Blades which feather parallel to the shaft will be way out of line with the real flow direction.

                      The motoring performance hasn't suffered in any way, in fact reversing and motor-sailing are much improved. I've not noticed the claimed reduction in prop-walk though.

                      I hope this helps

                       

                      Best regards

                      Geoff McBroom

                      N35 FLY

                       

                      ----- Original Message -----

                      Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 9:10 PM

                      Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Speed under motoring (4.7 knots at 2.000 rpm)

                       

                       

                      Thank you for this information. I know there is something wrong with the engine of this wonderful yacht I have just acquired (CN35 # 207) ...

                      What is a big job changing the engine below the cockpit ?

                      Sincerely,

                      JF
                       

                      Jean-Francois REGNARD




                      Skype ID : jf.regnard
                      Ph : 33-613-176-149
                      Tel : 02-96-91-40-07

                       

                      Adr : Park Ar MenRu
                      Chemin du Phare
                      Ploumanac'h, 22700 Perros-Guirec

                       

                       


                      From: Peter Jørgensen <peterschoett@...>
                      To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 9:02:49 PM
                      Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Speed under motoring (4.7 knots at 2.000 rpm)

                       

                      Hi

                      About the speed on your Nic, we had just returned from our holiday and the last 2,5 hours we were going by motor.

                      This vinter we had installed a new Yanmar 3JH4 with a SD50 saildrive. At exactly 4,7 knots, the engine runs 1100 rpm. The only thing is that the mechanical log was stopped so I dont know what way the stream went but, this is now fixed and I will gladly write down the exact figures next time we sail out.

                      I have to tell you that I had put on a Brunton Autoprop and this is the absolut best thing i´ve bought..... full pitch at rewers and the best, no sidewalk at all. Before we had a Watermota Seapanther with a Hurth V drive, and back then you could talk about sidewalk and poor steering in the tight marinas.

                      When we runs 6 knots the engine runs around 1400 rpm.

                       

                      Peter 

                      CN 187 / Addiena      

                       


                      From: JFR <jfregnard@yahoo. com>
                      To: campernicholson@ yahoogroups. com
                      Sent: Sat, July 3, 2010 2:53:19 PM
                      Subject: [campernicholson] Speed under motoring (4.7 knots at 2.000 rpm)

                       

                      My CN has a 35hp Piranha engine with a two-blade folding propeller. With revs at 2.000 rpm, she sails at 4.7 knots in a flat sea and virtually no-wind. Such a speed seems quite slow to me. Would anyone have figures that I can use as a benchmark ? Should I put in a 3-blade regular propeller ?
                      Any advice will be welcome,

                      JF Regnard
                      CN35#207

                       

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