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RE: [campernicholson] Wheel Steering

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  • Katie and Simon
    Hello John, There was quite a discussion about holding tanks back in January of this year. Here s a cut and paste from one of my previous messages: I ll offer
    Message 1 of 24 , Jun 28, 2010
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      Hello John,
       
      There was quite a discussion about holding tanks back in January of this year. Here's a cut and paste from one of my previous messages:
       
      "I'll offer a thought on the holding tank. We didn't have a holding tank on Gin Rummy before 2005 so we were starting from scratch. We chose to go with a gravity tank located in the hanging locker behind the Lavac. It offers many advantages over a below-the-waterline tank. It is simple - just close the seacock when you're in a bay or harbour, and open it when you've left. There are no extra pumps or valves to worry about. There is no residue left sitting in the tank as it is constantly flushed. It takes up very little space and leaves the under-berth lockers available for storage. Etc.
       
      We made a model of the tank out of thin plywood and had it made up by a professional shop in some sort of plastic (I can't remember which plastic, but it is the correct one for holding tanks!). It cost us 130 Euros in 2005 including the tank fittings. The tank has four connections - 3 on the top (inlet from Lavac pump, breather, and deck pump-out) and one on the bottom (outlet to seacock). We positioned the deck connection directly above the outlet connection so that we could rod the tank outlet from on deck if it ever became blocked - but that hasn't been a problem.
       
      I would definitely recommend this option. I seem to remember that the tank capacity is around 80 litres. And it doesn't smell! I will try an attach a couple of pics to this email."

       
      If you check back in the archives around message #5028 you'll find the thread and some pics. A detailed description of how we built our tank is in message #5032. Let me know if you have any problems accessing these messages, or if you have some further questions.
       
      We are very happy with our holding tank. It's easy to use, maintenance free, and best of all it doesn't smell. On our new boat which we are just in the process of buying I am planning to convert the GRP holding tank which is under the forward berth to a spare diesel tank, and install a polypropylene gravity holding tank in the wet locker in the head just as we did on Gin Rummy. That way I can get rid of all the pumps and valves and keep things simple.
       
      Hope this helps.
       
      Regards,
       
      Simon
      Gin Rummy, CN35-202

       

       

      To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
      From: john57crosby@...
      Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 05:42:48 -0700
      Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Wheel Steering

       
      Dear Bob and Simon,
       
      I'm about to move Boreas J (Hull No. 178, 1979) from Lisbon into the Med for the next several years, and I need to get a holding tank installed. Bob, I read you had a new one installed - where did you put it and wass it an expensive and complicated job? Simon, the same answer to you if you have one. Thanks very much, any info will greatly appreciated! .
       
      regards, John Crosby

       


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    • Thomas J Middelthon
      Hello The hydraulic system of North Wind CN 35 # 40 , Perkins 4:107 has been working fine after recond/new hydr pump/motor giving app 6 knots at 15-1600 RPM.
      Message 2 of 24 , Jul 6 3:00 PM
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        Hello

         

        The hydraulic system of North Wind CN 35 # 40 , Perkins 4:107 has been working fine after recond/new hydr pump/motor giving app 6 knots at 15-1600 RPM.

         

        After topping up with hydraulic oil I am now experiencing slightly reduced performance, max rpm is reduced and speed is also  slightly reduced. I do not know if this is a coincidence or what…..

         

        Does any one of you know how sensitive the system is to the accurate amount of hydr oil ? what would the correct amount be, looking into the tank ?

         

        Any comments or thoughts ?

         

         

        Thomas J. Middelthon

        Stavanger, Norway

      • O. R. Armstrong
        Thomas, It appears from what you said that there was enough hydraulic oil in the reservoir before you topped it up so that the system ran fine. That being
        Message 3 of 24 , Jul 7 12:41 AM
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          Thomas,

            It appears from what you said that there was enough hydraulic oil in the reservoir before you "topped it up" so that the system ran fine. That being the case, it doesn't seem to me that adding more hydraulic oil to the reservoir would cause a decrease in performance. I don't think the amount in the reservoir makes much difference, as long as there's enough supply to keep up with the demand from the pump. However -- and this is a long shot -- it's possible that the oil you added was of a higher viscosity than what was already in the reservoir. But I think it would have to be considerably "thicker" for that to make a noticeable difference in performance.

            Have you changed the hydraulic oil filter?

            I assume you are not leaking oil on the pressure side of the pump; that would be very noticeable. But could you have a loose fitting on the supply hose, or a cracked supply hose, that might be sucking air? Is the oil that is returned to the reservoir foamy?

            I had my pump and motor re-conditioned over the winter, but I'm not in the water yet. I plan on flushing out the entire system before hooking up the hoses, to be sure that no grit or contamination could get into the pump or motor. The tolerances are quite fine in hydraulic equipment.

            Russ Armstrong

          On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 5:00 PM, Thomas J Middelthon <middel@...> wrote:
           

          Hello

           

          The hydraulic system of North Wind CN 35 # 40 , Perkins 4:107 has been working fine after recond/new hydr pump/motor giving app 6 knots at 15-1600 RPM.

           

          After topping up with hydraulic oil I am now experiencing slightly reduced performance, max rpm is reduced and speed is also  slightly reduced. I do not know if this is a coincidence or what…..

           

          Does any one of you know how sensitive the system is to the accurate amount of hydr oil ? what would the correct amount be, looking into the tank ?

           

          Any comments or thoughts ?

           

           

          Thomas J. Middelthon

          Stavanger, Norway




          --
          Arnold Toynbee recalled the mood of Her Majesty’s 1897 jubilee as follows: “There is, of course, a thing called history, but history is something unpleasant that happens to other people. We are comfortably outside all of that I am sure.”
        • JOHN LARSON
          Russ and Thomas, The hydraulic tank on Passport is large, eight gallons or more, I think. Somewhere I remember reading in the literature that came with the
          Message 4 of 24 , Jul 7 8:15 AM
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            Russ and Thomas,
             
            The hydraulic tank on Passport is large, eight gallons or more, I think.  Somewhere I remember reading in the literature that came with the boat, that the tank should be quite full in order to keep the hydraulic oil temp low.
             
            Russ, will you be on the Chesapeake in September?  We'll be launching the first part of that month barring hurricane problems.  It would be fun to get together.
             
            John and Sandy
             
            s/v Passport, CN 35 #85
             

          • Graham Norbury
            I don t know what the correct specs are for your system s hydraulic fluid, but generally you would want to make sure the ISO number of the fluid you use to top
            Message 5 of 24 , Jul 7 1:31 PM
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              I don't know what the correct specs are for your system's hydraulic fluid, but generally you would want to make sure the ISO number of the fluid you use to top up the tank matches what's already in there.  If the fluid is too thin, you might experience slippage in the drive train, and if it is too heavy, cold weather operation will be a problem.

              Graham

              On 7/6/2010 6:00 PM, Thomas J Middelthon wrote:
               

              Hello

               

              The hydraulic system of North Wind CN 35 # 40 , Perkins 4:107 has been working fine after recond/new hydr pump/motor giving app 6 knots at 15-1600 RPM.

               

              After topping up with hydraulic oil I am now experiencing slightly reduced performance, max rpm is reduced and speed is also  slightly reduced. I do not know if this is a coincidence or what…..

               

              Does any one of you know how sensitive the system is to the accurate amount of hydr oil ? what would the correct amount be, looking into the tank ?

               

              Any comments or thoughts ?

               

               

              Thomas J. Middelthon

              Stavanger, Norway

            • Thomas J Middelthon
              Thank you for comments Graham and Russ; I have this evening changed the filter and thus also reduces the amount of oil app 2 litres. No change in performance.
              Message 6 of 24 , Jul 7 3:25 PM
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                Thank you for comments Graham and Russ;

                 

                I have this evening changed the filter and thus also reduces the amount of oil app 2 litres. No change in performance.

                 

                The oil I used was the same and correct oil….. maybe there is no connection here with me topping up with oil. It could of course be something with the old engine. Or maybe my Autoprop – which works great – is more sensitive to foul than I have realized and maybe it has become just a little bit fouled due to not enough use the last few weeks. I will take a look at it one day.

                 

                But I do not like It when performace changes like that, I have lost app 2500-300RPM compared to what I used to have on max, I can now reach app 2 300 RPM on max.

                 

                Leaving for 4 weeks of cruising Norwegian west coast/fjords this Friday.

                 

                All the best

                Thomas

                 

                From: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com [mailto:campernicholson@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of O. R. Armstrong
                Sent: 7. juli 2010 09:41
                To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Hydraulics

                 

                 

                Thomas,

                  It appears from what you said that there was enough hydraulic oil in the reservoir before you "topped it up" so that the system ran fine. That being the case, it doesn't seem to me that adding more hydraulic oil to the reservoir would cause a decrease in performance. I don't think the amount in the reservoir makes much difference, as long as there's enough supply to keep up with the demand from the pump. However -- and this is a long shot -- it's possible that the oil you added was of a higher viscosity than what was already in the reservoir. But I think it would have to be considerably "thicker" for that to make a noticeable difference in performance.

                  Have you changed the hydraulic oil filter?

                  I assume you are not leaking oil on the pressure side of the pump; that would be very noticeable. But could you have a loose fitting on the supply hose, or a cracked supply hose, that might be sucking air? Is the oil that is returned to the reservoir foamy?

                  I had my pump and motor re-conditioned over the winter, but I'm not in the water yet. I plan on flushing out the entire system before hooking up the hoses, to be sure that no grit or contamination could get into the pump or motor. The tolerances are quite fine in hydraulic equipment.

                  Russ Armstrong

                On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 5:00 PM, Thomas J Middelthon <middel@...> wrote:

                 

                Hello

                 

                The hydraulic system of North Wind CN 35 # 40 , Perkins 4:107 has been working fine after recond/new hydr pump/motor giving app 6 knots at 15-1600 RPM.

                 

                After topping up with hydraulic oil I am now experiencing slightly reduced performance, max rpm is reduced and speed is also  slightly reduced. I do not know if this is a coincidence or what…..

                 

                Does any one of you know how sensitive the system is to the accurate amount of hydr oil ? what would the correct amount be, looking into the tank ?

                 

                Any comments or thoughts ?

                 

                 

                Thomas J. Middelthon

                Stavanger, Norway




                --
                Arnold Toynbee recalled the mood of Her Majesty’s 1897 jubilee as follows: “There is, of course, a thing called history, but history is something unpleasant that happens to other people. We are comfortably outside all of that I am sure.”

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