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Re: [campernicholson] osmosis in the hull

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  • Brian Stannard
    Maybe the hull wasn t dry enough last time it was barrier coated. It takes quite a while to dry out as you know. It sounds like you re doing it right. West
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 31 10:56 PM
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      Maybe the hull wasn't dry enough last time it was barrier coated. It takes quite a while to dry out as you know. It sounds like you're doing it right. West works as does Interlux Interprotect 2000 but it takes multiple coats - 5 in the case of Interprotect.

      On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Peter Jørgensen <peterschoett@...> wrote:
       

      Hi Brian
      It seems that Addiena has had a treatment for osmoses before and the blisters is therefore between the epoxy and the laminate. The blisters are allmoste gone after the peeling.
       
      Peter


      From: Brian Stannard <brianstannard@...>
      To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wed, March 31, 2010 10:11:24 PM
      Subject: Re: [campernicholson] osmosis in the hull

       

      If the hull is truly dry, and it sounds like it will be, there should not be a return of blisters. At least for a decade. Were they small blisters in the gel coat or deeper blisters into the laminate?

      On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 12:35 PM, peterschoett <peterschoett@ yahoo.com> wrote:
       

      Hi all...
      We are also restoring the hull on Addiena, she had a number off blisters and I peeled the hull in the fall and were sure that the perfect way of eleminate this problem was to use the West-system but now I´m not so sure..... I´d read, on the internet, that the blisters for sure will be back in 5-6 years, all because this problem is not caused by water in the laminate, but more likely a cemical thing.
      Addiena was peeled in start oktober and has dryed out inside since cristmas. She has been moved out today (31/3-10) to be washed down with hot water twice a day for two weeks and then dryed out again for a month or more, but, is all this hard work wasted or what is your experience with this problem....?
      Hope not to make all this work again in 5 or 6 years (hopefully never at all ;-))

      Regards Peter




      --
      Brian
      Living aboard in Victoria





      --
      Brian
      Living aboard in Victoria
    • Peter Jørgensen
      That was a quik responsed answer. And it will calm me down a lot. I was nerveous that all my hard work just the sudden was wasted . Actually I had planed
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 1, 2010
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        That was a quik responsed answer. And it will calm me down a lot. I was nerveous that all my hard work just the sudden was wasted . Actually I had planed to give her 6 layer of coat so, I´m wery pleased with your answer.      
        Peter


        From: Brian Stannard <brianstannard@...>
        To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thu, April 1, 2010 7:56:20 AM
        Subject: Re: [campernicholson] osmosis in the hull

         

        Maybe the hull wasn't dry enough last time it was barrier coated. It takes quite a while to dry out as you know. It sounds like you're doing it right. West works as does Interlux Interprotect 2000 but it takes multiple coats - 5 in the case of Interprotect.

        On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Peter Jørgensen <peterschoett@ yahoo.com> wrote:
         

        Hi Brian
        It seems that Addiena has had a treatment for osmoses before and the blisters is therefore between the epoxy and the laminate. The blisters are allmoste gone after the peeling.
         
        Peter


        From: Brian Stannard <brianstannard@ gmail.com>
        To: campernicholson@ yahoogroups. com
        Sent: Wed, March 31, 2010 10:11:24 PM
        Subject: Re: [campernicholson] osmosis in the hull

         

        If the hull is truly dry, and it sounds like it will be, there should not be a return of blisters. At least for a decade. Were they small blisters in the gel coat or deeper blisters into the laminate?

        On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 12:35 PM, peterschoett <peterschoett@ yahoo.com> wrote:
         

        Hi all...
        We are also restoring the hull on Addiena, she had a number off blisters and I peeled the hull in the fall and were sure that the perfect way of eleminate this problem was to use the West-system but now I´m not so sure..... I´d read, on the internet, that the blisters for sure will be back in 5-6 years, all because this problem is not caused by water in the laminate, but more likely a cemical thing.
        Addiena was peeled in start oktober and has dryed out inside since cristmas. She has been moved out today (31/3-10) to be washed down with hot water twice a day for two weeks and then dryed out again for a month or more, but, is all this hard work wasted or what is your experience with this problem....?
        Hope not to make all this work again in 5 or 6 years (hopefully never at all ;-))

        Regards Peter




        --
        Brian
        Living aboard in Victoria





        --
        Brian
        Living aboard in Victoria

      • Graham Norbury
        Peter, I owned a late model CN35 which had a blister problem deep down in the laminate. We ended up grinding out the wet spots and reglassing 30-40
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 1, 2010
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          Peter,

          I owned a late model CN35 which had a blister problem deep down in the laminate.  We ended up grinding out the wet spots and reglassing 30-40 significantly sized areas using west system.  Treating the surface blisters will not cure an underlying issue, and sometimes the only way to tell if you have that is to use a moisture meter to look for the wet spots.  If they are close enough to the surface (1-2 layers) you may be able to see the dampness, and or hear the delam when sounding the hull with a plastic hammer.

          My current boat - a Stevens 47 - also had a blister problem that I initially thought was confined to the gel coat.  Turns out that was much deeper too, and we peeled the gel and a couple layers of glass from the keel prior to making repairs involving a lot of grinding, build-up, 2 new coats of glass and a substantial vinylester barrier coat.  She is now dry, and I have every expectation that she'll stay that way for a long time to come.

          The one point I wish to make is that there are no shortcuts when it comes to blister repair.  You have to eradicate the wet areas, which won't happen on its own, and then you have to install an adequate barrier coat.  Epoxy products such as West System and Interlux Interprotect 2000E can be used, but vinylester is cheaper and will last longer if properly applied.  NOTE: even with a vinylester bottom, we finish with 2 coats of Interprotect to act as a tie-coat to the bottom paint.  Paint on its own won't stick.

          Graham

          On 4/1/2010 3:12 AM, Peter Jørgensen wrote:
           
          That was a quik responsed answer. And it will calm me down a lot. I was nerveous that all my hard work just the sudden was wasted . Actually I had planed to give her 6 layer of coat so, I´m wery pleased with your answer.      
          Peter


          From: Brian Stannard <brianstannard@ gmail.com>
          To: campernicholson@ yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Thu, April 1, 2010 7:56:20 AM
          Subject: Re: [campernicholson] osmosis in the hull

           

          Maybe the hull wasn't dry enough last time it was barrier coated. It takes quite a while to dry out as you know. It sounds like you're doing it right. West works as does Interlux Interprotect 2000 but it takes multiple coats - 5 in the case of Interprotect.

          On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Peter Jørgensen <peterschoett@ yahoo.com> wrote:
           

          Hi Brian
          It seems that Addiena has had a treatment for osmoses before and the blisters is therefore between the epoxy and the laminate. The blisters are allmoste gone after the peeling.
           
          Peter


          From: Brian Stannard <brianstannard@ gmail.com>
          To: campernicholson@ yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Wed, March 31, 2010 10:11:24 PM
          Subject: Re: [campernicholson] osmosis in the hull

           

          If the hull is truly dry, and it sounds like it will be, there should not be a return of blisters. At least for a decade. Were they small blisters in the gel coat or deeper blisters into the laminate?

          On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 12:35 PM, peterschoett <peterschoett@ yahoo.com> wrote:
           

          Hi all...
          We are also restoring the hull on Addiena, she had a number off blisters and I peeled the hull in the fall and were sure that the perfect way of eleminate this problem was to use the West-system but now I´m not so sure..... I´d read, on the internet, that the blisters for sure will be back in 5-6 years, all because this problem is not caused by water in the laminate, but more likely a cemical thing.
          Addiena was peeled in start oktober and has dryed out inside since cristmas. She has been moved out today (31/3-10) to be washed down with hot water twice a day for two weeks and then dryed out again for a month or more, but, is all this hard work wasted or what is your experience with this problem....?
          Hope not to make all this work again in 5 or 6 years (hopefully never at all ;-))

          Regards Peter




          --
          Brian
          Living aboard in Victoria




          --
          Brian
          Living aboard in Victoria

        • b_a_t_e_a_u
          Well I have just finished my boat with the West System epoxy products. My research and feeling on the matter lead me to use epoxy as opposed to alternatives.
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 2, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Well I have just finished my boat with the West System epoxy products. My research and feeling on the matter lead me to use epoxy as opposed to alternatives. Chemically it is closest to a complete barrier. My boat did not have osmotic blisters but had been out of the water for around 5 years. The getcoat was crazed and it was the surveyors recommendation to fix the gelcoat before it was placed back in the water where it would only soak up water and create problems.

            The re-coating is a non trivial task. The gelcoat was ground off (my only choice where the boat stood) with an orbital sanding machine by the boat yard. After 4 months it was checked for dry. The hull was then cleaned (the warm water is to remove styrene which is the acidic ooze in the blisters which I did not have).

            One coat of clear epoxy was rolled onto the hull and allowed to set and then the hull was towelled with 407 fairing compound mixed with epoxy as smooth as we could manage with large flexible broad knives. It was then long boarded with coarse grit sandpaper until fair. This is without question the biggest job. No amount of reading could prepare me for the difficulty of that task. It took 2 hours to trowel it on and then 21 man days to hand sand it fair. The stuff sets as hard as car body filler. The West specification calls 407 a "Low-Density filler. It is a blended micro-balloon based filler used to make fairing putties that are easy to sand or carve." Easy to sand or carve is definitely a marketing phrase that does not resemble the product when installed. When I spoke to the West System rep, he did have a laugh and said "he would not have used 407 as it sets too hard". That was not helpful advice after the event. In hind sight some form of automation in the form of a long reciprocating air sander could be used but I was in Turkey and there was no options other than longboard it fair by hand. Be wary of mixing it in large batches as self combustion starts very easily. Smokin'

            Once the hull was fair, one coat of clear epoxy was rolled on and tipped as a tie coat for the barrier coats. Then 8 coats of epoxy with 422 barrier additive was rolled on and then tipped in alternate directions. One more coat of clear epoxy was then rolled onto the hull for sanding. The 422 is a mixture of mica and aluminium powder (aluminum for yanks) as I understand, so it is not easy to sand hence the final single coat of epoxy to be sanded for the primer. The hull then had 2 coats of epoxy primer (paint) and was ready for anti-foul. I allowed the epoxy to cure for a month before priming.

            The west system epoxy coats were actually quiet easy. I did go the extra metres (yards) to try and ensure I don't have to do this again. I am very pleased with the results but time will tell. Beware of the fairing coats. In the end if the fairing compound was soft it would not hold the epoxy on to the hull long term.

            My experience with barrier coating a Nic 35.

            Regards
            Graham





            --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...> wrote:
            >
            > Peter,
            >
            > I owned a late model CN35 which had a blister problem deep down in the
            > laminate. We ended up grinding out the wet spots and reglassing 30-40
            > significantly sized areas using west system. Treating the surface
            > blisters will not cure an underlying issue, and sometimes the only way
            > to tell if you have that is to use a moisture meter to look for the wet
            > spots. If they are close enough to the surface (1-2 layers) you may be
            > able to see the dampness, and or hear the delam when sounding the hull
            > with a plastic hammer.
            >
            > My current boat - a Stevens 47 - also had a blister problem that I
            > initially thought was confined to the gel coat. Turns out that was much
            > deeper too, and we peeled the gel and a couple layers of glass from the
            > keel prior to making repairs involving a lot of grinding, build-up, 2
            > new coats of glass and a substantial vinylester barrier coat. She is
            > now dry, and I have every expectation that she'll stay that way for a
            > long time to come.
            >
            > The one point I wish to make is that there are no shortcuts when it
            > comes to blister repair. You have to eradicate the wet areas, which
            > won't happen on its own, and then you have to install an adequate
            > barrier coat. Epoxy products such as West System and Interlux
            > Interprotect 2000E can be used, but vinylester is cheaper and will last
            > longer if properly applied. NOTE: even with a vinylester bottom, we
            > finish with 2 coats of Interprotect to act as a tie-coat to the bottom
            > paint. Paint on its own won't stick.
            >
            > Graham
            >
            > On 4/1/2010 3:12 AM, Peter Jørgensen wrote:
            > > That was a quik responsed answer. And it will calm me down a lot. I
            > > was nerveous that all my hard work just the sudden was wasted .
            > > Actually I had planed to give her 6 layer of coat so, I´m wery pleased
            > > with your answer.
            > > Peter
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > > *From:* Brian Stannard <brianstannard@...>
            > > *To:* campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
            > > *Sent:* Thu, April 1, 2010 7:56:20 AM
            > > *Subject:* Re: [campernicholson] osmosis in the hull
            > >
            > > Maybe the hull wasn't dry enough last time it was barrier coated. It
            > > takes quite a while to dry out as you know. It sounds like you're
            > > doing it right. West works as does Interlux Interprotect 2000 but it
            > > takes multiple coats - 5 in the case of Interprotect.
            > >
            > > On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Peter Jørgensen <peterschoett@
            > > yahoo.com <mailto:peterschoett@...>> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Brian
            > > It seems that Addiena has had a treatment for osmoses before and
            > > the blisters is therefore between the epoxy and the laminate. The
            > > blisters are allmoste gone after the peeling.
            > > Peter
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > > *From:* Brian Stannard <brianstannard@ gmail.com
            > > <mailto:brianstannard@...>>
            > > *To:* campernicholson@ yahoogroups. com
            > > <mailto:campernicholson@yahoogroups.com>
            > > *Sent:* Wed, March 31, 2010 10:11:24 PM
            > > *Subject:* Re: [campernicholson] osmosis in the hull
            > >
            > > If the hull is truly dry, and it sounds like it will be, there
            > > should not be a return of blisters. At least for a decade. Were
            > > they small blisters in the gel coat or deeper blisters into the
            > > laminate?
            > >
            > > On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 12:35 PM, peterschoett <peterschoett@
            > > yahoo.com <mailto:peterschoett@...>> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi all...
            > > We are also restoring the hull on Addiena, she had a number
            > > off blisters and I peeled the hull in the fall and were sure
            > > that the perfect way of eleminate this problem was to use the
            > > West-system but now I´m not so sure..... I´d read, on the
            > > internet, that the blisters for sure will be back in 5-6
            > > years, all because this problem is not caused by water in the
            > > laminate, but more likely a cemical thing.
            > > Addiena was peeled in start oktober and has dryed out inside
            > > since cristmas. She has been moved out today (31/3-10) to be
            > > washed down with hot water twice a day for two weeks and then
            > > dryed out again for a month or more, but, is all this hard
            > > work wasted or what is your experience with this problem....?
            > > Hope not to make all this work again in 5 or 6 years
            > > (hopefully never at all ;-))
            > >
            > > Regards Peter
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --
            > > Brian
            > > Living aboard in Victoria
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --
            > > Brian
            > > Living aboard in Victoria
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > >
            > > Spam
            > > <http://mailshield.cosmoweb.net/canit/b.php?i=211729274&m=41d30747d579&c=s>
            > > Not spam
            > > <http://mailshield.cosmoweb.net/canit/b.php?i=211729274&m=41d30747d579&c=n>
            > > Forget previous vote
            > > <http://mailshield.cosmoweb.net/canit/b.php?i=211729274&m=41d30747d579&c=f>
            >
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