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Re: [campernicholson] Re: Deep Sea Seal

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  • O. R. Armstrong
    FWIW: Dripless is certainly attractive, but it is accomplished by water pressure *inside* the hull expanding a flexible bellows. Since the bellows must be very
    Message 1 of 23 , Feb 5, 2009
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      FWIW: Dripless is certainly attractive, but it is accomplished by water pressure inside the hull expanding a flexible bellows. Since the bellows must be very flexible for the system to work, it cannot be made out of a thick, reinforced hose. So a little springy piece of hose is all there is between my boat and Mr. Jones' Locker? I opted for the Buck Algonquin stuffing box (a beautiful piece of equipment, if you're into plumbing) and a substantial piece of black hose, knowing that if I spring a leak out there, somewhere far from help, I can probably fix it.

      Russ

      p.s. On the recommendation of my yard, I used conventional flax packing coated with Tef-Gel.

      On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 6:13 AM, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...> wrote:

      PSS seals are a pain in the posterior - it really doesn't take much to
      contaminate the sealing surfaces, usually leading to pitting of the
      stainless rotor, wear in the graphite ring and eventually slow leaks.
      It is however quite unusual to completely rip one apart underway.

      The Strong Shaft Seal (Tides Marine) is far less prone to leaking, but
      I've seen them melt and destroy themselves underway due to clogged water
      injection lines. Usually this malady only affects larger motor vessels
      with high speed shafts; I've yet to see one do it on a sail boat, and
      personally have one on my Stevens 47.

      Bronze stuffing boxes are actually making a comeback, mainly due to the
      higher-tech packing materials now available. Last year my yard ripped
      out the dripless units from a 55' Flemming trawler and replaced them
      with Buck Algonquin bronze stuffing boxes packed with the green goo from
      Western Pacific Trading. (West Marine# 362931). After some adjustment
      and wearing in, we found the stuff works pretty well. More importantly
      the yard owner was far more comfortable that his shaft seals weren't
      going to rip themselves apart and flood the engine room again!

      Graham



      Tom Cos wrote:
      >
      > Graham,
      >
      > If this helps the log size on Dream is 2 1/4".
      >
      > I've have had one PSS fail within a year of being installed. The
      > mating surfaces stuck together when I put the motor in reverse which
      > rotated the entire forward portion of the PSS around the shaft. The
      > end of the boot attached to the log did not rotate which made the PSS
      > quite stretched and distorted. When I then put the motor into forward
      > gear the PSS rotated part way back to normal when it wedged and
      > pinched the cooling hose between the PSS and the bottom of the
      > transmission. This is how I found it and hour out of port when I
      > noticed water in the engine sump. I immediately return to port and
      > hauled the boat. I think the cooling hose stopped it from rating
      > further and breaking the bellows. The yard and PSS said they never
      > seen such a thing happen. I did end up putting a new replacement unit
      > in but my feelings are uneasy about its ability to hold up. I have a
      > new transmission to put in the boat next winter when I haul out and at
      > that time I will be putting the bronze stuffing box back in. I have
      > found that I need to burp (pull the mating surfaces apart) the PSS
      > before each use to make sure they are not stuck which of course lets
      > water into the sump. I think I like the drip of the stuffing box
      > better then burping the PSS.......There have been many who have used
      > the PSS with good results though.
      >
      >
      > good luck and best regards,
      >
      > Tom
      > CN35-199 Dream
      >
      > On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Graham Horne
      > <graham.horne@... <mailto:graham.horne@...>> wrote:
      >
      > Just a quick question. I bought a new PSS seal at the London boat
      > show last month. The Nic 35 shaft as I understand it is 1 3/8"
      > (imperial), but what size is the flange over which the new boot goes
      > (or the size of the boot). I guessed to be honest at 2", is that
      > right? My boat is in Turkey so it is a little difficult to measure.
      > I will be out there next month. Aquafax will exchange if I have it
      > wrong.
      >
      > Thanks
      > Graham
      >
      > .
      >
      >
      >
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    • Graham Norbury
      Its not the water pressure on the bellows that keeps the pressure, but the springiness of the bellows themselves. They typically have to be replaced every 3-4
      Message 2 of 23 , Feb 5, 2009
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        Its not the water pressure on the bellows that keeps the pressure, but
        the springiness of the bellows themselves. They typically have to be
        replaced every 3-4 years.

        Graham

        O. R. Armstrong wrote:
        >
        > FWIW: Dripless is certainly attractive, but it is accomplished by
        > water pressure *inside* the hull expanding a flexible bellows. Since
        > the bellows must be very flexible for the system to work, it cannot be
        > made out of a thick, reinforced hose. So a little springy piece of
        > hose is all there is between my boat and Mr. Jones' Locker? I opted
        > for the Buck Algonquin stuffing box (a beautiful piece of equipment,
        > if you're into plumbing) and a substantial piece of black hose,
        > knowing that if I spring a leak out there, somewhere far from help, I
        > can probably fix it.
        >
        > Russ
        >
        > p.s. On the recommendation of my yard, I used conventional flax
        > packing coated with Tef-Gel.
        >
        >
      • JOHN LARSON
        Do any of you CN 35 owners have the original stuffing box? We do and it seems to be very efficient. I ve had to replace the hose between the hull and the
        Message 3 of 23 , Feb 5, 2009
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          Do any of you CN 35 owners have the original stuffing box?  We do and it seems to be very efficient.  I've had to replace the hose between the hull and the plastic fitting, but nothing else.  The hose was easy to find.  I bought a full piece and cut it to length.  So far in 16 years I've replaced it twice.  It's an easy job with a hydraulic drive.
           
          John
           
          s/v Passport, CN 35 #85
        • O. R. Armstrong
          Graham, I stand corrected. Nevertheless, that bellows is made out of lighter, more flexible stuff than the heavy, below-the-waterline rated stuff used with a
          Message 4 of 23 , Feb 5, 2009
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            Graham,

              I stand corrected. Nevertheless, that bellows is made out of lighter, more flexible stuff than the heavy, below-the-waterline rated stuff used with a conventional stuffing box. True?

              Russ

            On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 3:55 PM, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...> wrote:

            Its not the water pressure on the bellows that keeps the pressure, but
            the springiness of the bellows themselves. They typically have to be
            replaced every 3-4 years.

            Graham



            O. R. Armstrong wrote:
            >
            > FWIW: Dripless is certainly attractive, but it is accomplished by
            > water pressure *inside* the hull expanding a flexible bellows. Since
            > the bellows must be very flexible for the system to work, it cannot be
            > made out of a thick, reinforced hose. So a little springy piece of
            > hose is all there is between my boat and Mr. Jones' Locker? I opted
            > for the Buck Algonquin stuffing box (a beautiful piece of equipment,
            > if you're into plumbing) and a substantial piece of black hose,
            > knowing that if I spring a leak out there, somewhere far from help, I
            > can probably fix it.
            >
            > Russ
            >
            > p.s. On the recommendation of my yard, I used conventional flax
            > packing coated with Tef-Gel.
            >
            >

          • Denece Vincent
            Here! Here! for the bronze box! We used Gore black stuffing material about 8-10 years ago and have barely a drip underway, none at rest. Still performing as
            Message 5 of 23 , Feb 5, 2009
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              Here! Here! for the bronze box!  We used Gore black stuffing material about  8-10 years ago and have barely a drip underway, none at rest.  Still performing as when new.  Not much holds up so well!
               
              Denece
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: 2/5/2009 1:55:36 PM
              Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Re: Deep Sea Seal

              Its not the water pressure on the bellows that keeps the pressure, but
              the springiness of the bellows themselves. They typically have to be
              replaced every 3-4 years.

              Graham

              O. R. Armstrong wrote:
              >
              > FWIW: Dripless is certainly attractive, but it is accomplished by
              > water pressure *inside* the hull expanding a flexible bellows. Since
              > the bellows must be very flexible for the system to work, it cannot be
              > made out of a thick, reinforced hose. So a little springy piece of
              > hose is all there is between my boat and Mr. Jones' Locker? I opted
              > for the Buck Algonquin stuffing box (a beautiful piece of equipment,
              > if you're into plumbing) and a substantial piece of black hose,
              > knowing that if I spring a leak out there, somewhere far from help, I
              > can probably fix it.
              >
              > Russ
              >
              > p.s. On the recommendation of my yard, I used conventional flax
              > packing coated with Tef-Gel.
              >
              >

            • Graham Norbury
              Its certainly not wire reinforced like most conventional underwater hoses, but at the end of the day its a tradeoff between dry bilges vs overall robustness.
              Message 6 of 23 , Feb 6, 2009
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                Its certainly not wire reinforced like most conventional "underwater"
                hoses, but at the end of the day its a tradeoff between dry bilges vs
                overall robustness. As long as the vessel is maintained properly,
                neither style stuffing box should be a problem.

                Graham

                O. R. Armstrong wrote:
                >
                > Graham,
                >
                > I stand corrected. Nevertheless, that bellows is made out of
                > lighter, more flexible stuff than the heavy, below-the-waterline rated
                > stuff used with a conventional stuffing box. True?
                >
                > Russ
                >
                > On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 3:55 PM, Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...
                > <mailto:gnorbury@...>> wrote:
                >
                > Its not the water pressure on the bellows that keeps the pressure,
                > but
                > the springiness of the bellows themselves. They typically have to be
                > replaced every 3-4 years.
                >
                > Graham
                >
                >
                >
                > O. R. Armstrong wrote:
                > >
                > > FWIW: Dripless is certainly attractive, but it is accomplished by
                > > water pressure *inside* the hull expanding a flexible bellows.
                > Since
                > > the bellows must be very flexible for the system to work, it
                > cannot be
                > > made out of a thick, reinforced hose. So a little springy piece of
                > > hose is all there is between my boat and Mr. Jones' Locker? I opted
                > > for the Buck Algonquin stuffing box (a beautiful piece of
                > equipment,
                > > if you're into plumbing) and a substantial piece of black hose,
                > > knowing that if I spring a leak out there, somewhere far from
                > help, I
                > > can probably fix it.
                > >
                > > Russ
                > >
                > > p.s. On the recommendation of my yard, I used conventional flax
                > > packing coated with Tef-Gel.
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
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                >
                > Spam <http://mailshield.cosmoweb.net/b.php?c=s&i=165901976&m=9f67ed59757a>
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                > <http://mailshield.cosmoweb.net/b.php?c=n&i=165901976&m=9f67ed59757a>
                > Forget previous vote
                > <http://mailshield.cosmoweb.net/b.php?c=f&i=165901976&m=9f67ed59757a>
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                >
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              • MICHAEL FORSDYKE
                Hello John Yes, Blue Days (35/209) has the original stuffing box on a flexible hose and it has worked perfectly for 25 years. With the V-drive replacement of
                Message 7 of 23 , Feb 6, 2009
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                  Hello John
                   
                  Yes, Blue Days (35/209) has the original stuffing box on a flexible hose and it has worked perfectly for 25 years. With the V-drive replacement of the hose is not exactly easy but not too difficult. I think Lloyds specified replacement of the hose every two years but that is probably excessive. However, failure would be a bit catastrophic!
                   
                  Regards,
                   
                  Michael Forsdyke
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 10:13 PM
                  Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Re: Deep Sea Seal

                  Do any of you CN 35 owners have the original stuffing box?  We do and it seems to be very efficient.  I've had to replace the hose between the hull and the plastic fitting, but nothing else.  The hose was easy to find.  I bought a full piece and cut it to length.  So far in 16 years I've replaced it twice.  It's an easy job with a hydraulic drive.
                   
                  John
                   
                  s/v Passport, CN 35 #85

                • JOHN LARSON
                  Hi Michael We replace our hose on the stuffing box when it starts feeling a little to soft. Not a very scientific approach, but we haven t had a failure yet.
                  Message 8 of 23 , Feb 9, 2009
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                    Hi Michael
                     
                    We replace our hose on the stuffing box when it starts feeling a little to soft.  Not a very scientific approach, but we haven't had a failure yet. 
                     
                    I can imagine that the v-drive makes it a bit of a challenge.  It's pretty wide open on the hydralic models.  The tradeoff is that you probably can back in something approaching a straight line.  With Passport the best we can so is a small clockwise circle.  Sometimes that can be handy, but all in all, I would rather be able to control where I go in reverse.
                     
                    John Larson
                     
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