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Replacing teak deck

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  • Linda Lane Thornton
    Hi Folks Andy is thinking about taking off the teak deck on our Nic 35, Coromandel Quest, which has seen better days.  We can´t afford to have it
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 3, 2008
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      Hi Folks
      Andy is thinking about taking off the teak deck on our Nic 35, Coromandel Quest, which has seen better days.  We can´t afford to have it replaced.  Has anyone done this, and what are the issues involved?  We probably won´t tackle it until we reach New Zealand (we´re in Peru at the moment) but want to get as much information as possible before we start pulling things apart.
      Cheers
      Linda Lane Thornton
      Coromandel Quest No 66

    • s.will@mac.com
      Hi LLT, Check out a product named Tuff Coat on-line. Attractive cost effective cover-up and excellent nonskid. We applied it a couple years ago. Cheers, Steve
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 3, 2008
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        Hi LLT,
        Check out a product named Tuff Coat on-line. Attractive cost effective cover-up and excellent nonskid. We applied it a couple years ago.
        Cheers,
        Steve
        CN42 Gavia

        Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


        From: Linda Lane Thornton
        Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:56:45 -0800 (PST)
        To: <campernicholson@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [campernicholson] Replacing teak deck

        Hi Folks
        Andy is thinking about taking off the teak deck on our Nic 35, Coromandel Quest, which has seen better days.  We can´t afford to have it replaced.  Has anyone done this, and what are the issues involved?  We probably won´t tackle it until we reach New Zealand (we´re in Peru at the moment) but want to get as much information as possible before we start pulling things apart.
        Cheers
        Linda Lane Thornton
        Coromandel Quest No 66

      • sergiosantos48
        ... effective cover-up and excellent nonskid. We applied it a couple years ago. ... Coromandel Quest, which has seen better days.  We can´t afford to have
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 3, 2008
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          --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, s.will@... wrote:
          >
          > Hi LLT,
          > Check out a product named Tuff Coat on-line. Attractive cost
          effective cover-up and excellent nonskid. We applied it a couple
          years ago.
          > Cheers,
          > Steve
          > CN42 Gavia
          > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Linda Lane Thornton <lindalanethornton@...>
          >
          > Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:56:45
          > To: <campernicholson@yahoogroups.com>
          > Subject: [campernicholson] Replacing teak deck
          >
          >
          > Hi Folks
          > Andy is thinking about taking off the teak deck on our Nic 35,
          Coromandel Quest, which has seen better days.  We can´t afford to
          have it replaced.  Has anyone done this, and what are the issues
          involved?  We probably won´t tackle it until we reach New Zealand
          (we´re in Peru at the moment) but want to get as much information as
          possible before we start pulling things apart.
          > Cheers
          > Linda Lane Thornton
          > Coromandel Quest No 66
          >
          Hello, Folks check this site I had my hands on and is a great
          solution no maintenance www.nuteak.com
        • naumangl
          ... Coromandel Quest, which has seen better days.  We can´t afford to have it replaced.  Has anyone done this, and what are the issues involved?  We
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 3, 2008
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            --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, Linda Lane Thornton
            <lindalanethornton@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Folks
            > Andy is thinking about taking off the teak deck on our Nic 35,
            Coromandel Quest, which has seen better days.  We can´t afford to have
            it replaced.  Has anyone done this, and what are the issues involved? 
            We probably won´t tackle it until we reach New Zealand (we´re in Peru
            at the moment) but want to get as much information as possible before
            we start pulling things apart.
            > Cheers
            > Linda Lane Thornton
            > Coromandel Quest No 66

            Linda,
            In Late October we started pulling the Teak off our CN 38 ketch built
            in 1973. It was in real bad shape. Our Cabin top had teak screwed down
            into the balsa core. We found the frame for the teak attached with
            something like 5200. This adhesive also held down the king planks on
            the cabin. The decks, bow and aft sections of the deck had simular
            adhesive along their edges. The adhesive was extremely difficult to
            remove. We drilled out and counter sunk each screw hole before filling
            them with West system epoxy with filler. We found the jell coat
            cracked along the decks close to the jib track. We covered the entire
            deck with a thin layer of glass and plenty of epoxy. We have been
            working nearly 2 months. I will respond to direct questions if our
            experiences seem of value. It has turned cold in North Carolina so the
            painting may take place in the spring. Can't say it was done correctly
            write back in 5 years. Good luck! willing to help.
            George Nauman
            >
          • Graham Norbury
            Linda, ... For what its worth, that is how we do it professionally in the boatyard. Once the glass surface has been filled & faired, we usually overcoat the
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 4, 2008
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              Linda,

              In Late October we started pulling the Teak off our CN 38 ketch built
              in 1973. It was in real bad shape. Our Cabin top had teak screwed down
              into the balsa core. We found the frame for the teak attached with
              something like 5200. This adhesive also held down the king planks on
              the cabin. The decks, bow and aft sections of the deck had simular
              adhesive along their edges. The adhesive was extremely difficult to
              remove. We drilled out and counter sunk each screw hole before filling
              them with West system epoxy with filler. We found the jell coat
              cracked along the decks close to the jib track. We covered the entire
              deck with a thin layer of glass and plenty of epoxy. We have been
              working nearly 2 months. I will respond to direct questions if our
              experiences seem of value. It has turned cold in North Carolina so the
              painting may take place in the spring. Can't say it was done correctly
              write back in 5 years. Good luck! willing to help.
              George Nauman
              >


              For what its worth, that is how we do it professionally in the boatyard. 

              Once the glass surface has been filled & faired, we usually overcoat the smooth areas with AwlGrip, and the non-skid with GripTex.
              Graham

            • J. Seth Strattan
              ... Dear Linda - My wife and I removed the teak deck on Liberty, our N35 #21. It was a huge project, but it was necessary because water was leaking past the
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 4, 2008
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                --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, Linda Lane Thornton
                <lindalanethornton@...> wrote:
                > Andy is thinking about taking off the teak deck on our Nic 35

                Dear Linda - My wife and I removed the teak deck on Liberty, our N35
                #21. It was a huge project, but it was necessary because water was
                leaking past the fasteners in the outboard and inboard strakes,
                threatening the balsa core. The bungs, fasteners and bond between the
                deck and the teak were all so far gone that I believe no amount of
                paint/sealant/wonder goo would have been sufficient to block water
                from penetrating.

                The teak was laid over the "stock" non-skid patterned gel-coat. Only
                the outboard and inboard strakes and the kingplank were screwed down.
                All of the teak was laid into a hard resin adhesive. Some strakes
                came up easily, but most didn't and we removed these using a power
                planer and lots of detail work with a wood chisel and a heat gun.

                We found it impossible to avoid gouging the underlying gel-coat in
                numerous places, so once the teak was up a complete re-fairing was in
                order. Now is the time to repair any delamination, which can be
                easily detected by tapping with a small hammer or lightly dragging any
                small tool across the fiberglass deck. The sound of delaminated areas
                is unmistakable. For us, delamination was limited to just a couple of
                small areas - particularly around the first stanchion bases. I
                removed the wet core from these areas and re-cored with fiberglass
                cloth in West Systems epoxy. While I was at it I removed the teak toe
                rail and routed out the lousy mush that was in the bulwark and
                replaced it with glass cloth and epoxy.

                One of the many little trials of this project was the matter of deck
                hardware removal. The genoa track was particularly vexing. It was
                fastened with machine screws tapped into an aluminum plate encased in
                the deck core. Almost every one of these stainless screws was frozen
                (predictable, really). I tried a lot of tricks to back these screws
                out. In the end I carefully guided a Sawzall between the track and
                the teak riser, cutting each of the screws. I managed to avoid
                damaging the track or the teak and reused both. I drilled the holes
                right through the deck and when it came to replace the track I did so
                with through-bolts and a stout metal backing plate (same goes for all
                other hardware).

                Back to the deck. I used a belt sander and 60-grit paper to do an
                initial fairing and to remove the hard resin adhesive. A lot of the
                gel-coat was removed, too, which is no problem. I also drilled out
                around any screw holes and filled them with epoxy thickened with
                colloidal silica. I first painted the decks with unthickened West
                Systems epoxy then faired with the same thickened with their #407
                fairing filler. Lots of fairing, sanding, refairing ... you know the
                drill. Because the decks will ultimately be covered with some sort of
                non-skid, it's not necessary to do a perfect fairing job.

                I then painted the decks with Awlgrip. I primed with several coats of
                Awlgrip primer (the best primer I've ever used), then painted with
                Awlgrip using the "roll and tip" method. It's a pain and it's a
                finicky product. If you choose to use it, follow the instructions
                carefully, particularly with respect to what thinners and reducers to
                add for the temperature you're working in. I painted the bulwarks,
                too, and up the cabin house sides to a masked line just above the
                level of where the teak deck was originally. I haven't gotten around
                to "feathering" this line into the house gel-coat. The Awlgrip gives
                an amazing gloss finish and it is quite tough.

                I've experimented with every non-skid technique I can think of. In
                the end what I settled on was thickened gel-coat applied in a uniform
                layer using a notched scraper and then textured using a "Goop Loop"
                texture roller. Google "Goop Loop" (say that ten times fast) and
                you'll see what it is. Others have told me they've had good luck with
                other kinds of texture rollers.

                I masked around all the deck edges with 1.5" tape, around all the
                hardware and in a few places across the deck with 1" tape. This
                masked off the areas for the non-skid.

                Getting an even pattern in this rolled-on gel coat is a bit of an art.
                We can discuss the method in more detail if you're interested, but
                the best advice I can give you is to do a lot of experimenting on
                scrap material before you hit the decks. Important variables include
                the amount of filler used, thickness applied, number of "strokes" with
                the roller, ambient temperature, phase of the moon, etc. After
                rolling and letting the gel-coat cure (don't forget to add curing
                agent!) you'll have a deck with lots of very sharp little peaks. I
                lightly block sanded this with 100 grit. The result is a very
                effective non-skid surface.

                Overall this was a difficult project. The results are good and I'm
                confident that the boat is far better for it. Stopping the water
                penetration into the deck core was imperative. The decks are much
                cooler and hardware is more easily bedded and sealed.

                The level of difficulty is largely a function of how compulsive you
                are about perfection at each step. I spent way too much time fairing
                because I didn't know at that point that I would be rolling on a thick
                coat of textured gel-coat, which hides many sins. The Awlgrip is also
                a pain to use but it lasts and lasts. Once I got the hang of it,
                rolling on the gel-coat was quick.

                Good luck to you and Andy, Linda. I think waiting to do this in New
                Zealand is a good idea since you'll have more ready access to the
                materials you'll need.

                Best wishes,
                Seth
                Liberty, N35 #21
              • Linda Lane Thornton
                Many thanks for this information, Seth.  At least Andy won t start it whilst we re in Callao!  It s definitely one to wait for New Zealand. Best wishes for
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 5, 2008
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                  Many thanks for this information, Seth.  At least Andy won't start it whilst we're in Callao!  It's definitely one to wait for New Zealand.
                  Best wishes for Christmas and the New Year.
                  Linda


                  From: J. Seth Strattan <jseth@...>
                  To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 7:52:12 AM
                  Subject: [campernicholson] Re: Replacing teak deck

                  --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, Linda Lane Thornton
                  <lindalanethornton@...> wrote:
                  > Andy is thinking about taking off the teak deck on our Nic 35

                  Dear Linda - My wife and I removed the teak deck on Liberty, our N35
                  #21.  It was a huge project, but it was necessary because water was
                  leaking past the fasteners in the outboard and inboard strakes,
                  threatening the balsa core.  The bungs, fasteners and bond between the
                  deck and the teak were all so far gone that I believe no amount of
                  paint/sealant/wonder goo would have been sufficient to block water
                  from penetrating.

                  The teak was laid over the "stock" non-skid patterned gel-coat.  Only
                  the outboard and inboard strakes and the kingplank were screwed down.
                  All of the teak was laid into a hard resin adhesive.  Some strakes
                  came up easily, but most didn't and we removed these using a power
                  planer and lots of detail work with a wood chisel and a heat gun.

                  We found it impossible to avoid gouging the underlying gel-coat in
                  numerous places, so once the teak was up a complete re-fairing was in
                  order.  Now is the time to repair any delamination, which can be
                  easily detected by tapping with a small hammer or lightly dragging any
                  small tool across the fiberglass deck.  The sound of delaminated areas
                  is unmistakable.  For us, delamination was limited to just a couple of
                  small areas - particularly around the first stanchion bases.  I
                  removed the wet core from these areas and re-cored with fiberglass
                  cloth in West Systems epoxy.  While I was at it I removed the teak toe
                  rail and routed out the lousy mush that was in the bulwark and
                  replaced it with glass cloth and epoxy.

                  One of the many little trials of this project was the matter of deck
                  hardware removal.  The genoa track was particularly vexing.  It was
                  fastened with machine screws tapped into an aluminum plate encased in
                  the deck core.  Almost every one of these stainless screws was frozen
                  (predictable, really).  I tried a lot of tricks to back these screws
                  out.  In the end I carefully guided a Sawzall between the track and
                  the teak riser, cutting each of the screws.  I managed to avoid
                  damaging the track or the teak and reused both.  I drilled the holes
                  right through the deck and when it came to replace the track I did so
                  with through-bolts and a stout metal backing plate (same goes for all
                  other hardware).

                  Back to the deck.  I used a belt sander and 60-grit paper to do an
                  initial fairing and to remove the hard resin adhesive.  A lot of the
                  gel-coat was removed, too, which is no problem.  I also drilled out
                  around any screw holes and filled them with epoxy thickened with
                  colloidal silica.  I first painted the decks with unthickened West
                  Systems epoxy then faired with the same thickened with their #407
                  fairing filler.  Lots of fairing, sanding, refairing ... you know the
                  drill.  Because the decks will ultimately be covered with some sort of
                  non-skid, it's not necessary to do a perfect fairing job. 

                  I then painted the decks with Awlgrip.  I primed with several coats of
                  Awlgrip primer (the best primer I've ever used), then painted with
                  Awlgrip using the "roll and tip" method.  It's a pain and it's a
                  finicky product.  If you choose to use it, follow the instructions
                  carefully, particularly with respect to what thinners and reducers to
                  add for the temperature you're working in.  I painted the bulwarks,
                  too, and up the cabin house sides to a masked line just above the
                  level of where the teak deck was originally.  I haven't gotten around
                  to "feathering" this line into the house gel-coat.  The Awlgrip gives
                  an amazing gloss finish and it is quite tough.

                  I've experimented with every non-skid technique I can think of.  In
                  the end what I settled on was thickened gel-coat applied in a uniform
                  layer using a notched scraper and then textured using a "Goop Loop"
                  texture roller.  Google "Goop Loop" (say that ten times fast) and
                  you'll see what it is.  Others have told me they've had good luck with
                  other kinds of texture rollers.

                  I masked around all the deck edges with 1.5" tape, around all the
                  hardware and in a few places across the deck with 1" tape.  This
                  masked off the areas for the non-skid.

                  Getting an even pattern in this rolled-on gel coat is a bit of an art.
                  We can discuss the method in more detail if you're interested, but
                  the best advice I can give you is to do a lot of experimenting on
                  scrap material before you hit the decks.  Important variables include
                  the amount of filler used, thickness applied, number of "strokes" with
                  the roller, ambient temperature, phase of the moon, etc.  After
                  rolling and letting the gel-coat cure (don't forget to add curing
                  agent!) you'll have a deck with lots of very sharp little peaks.  I
                  lightly block sanded this with 100 grit.  The result is a very
                  effective non-skid surface.

                  Overall this was a difficult project.  The results are good and I'm
                  confident that the boat is far better for it.  Stopping the water
                  penetration into the deck core was imperative.  The decks are much
                  cooler and hardware is more easily bedded and sealed.

                  The level of difficulty is largely a function of how compulsive you
                  are about perfection at each step.  I spent way too much time fairing
                  because I didn't know at that point that I would be rolling on a thick
                  coat of textured gel-coat, which hides many sins.  The Awlgrip is also
                  a pain to use but it lasts and lasts.  Once I got the hang of it,
                  rolling on the gel-coat was quick.

                  Good luck to you and Andy, Linda.  I think waiting to do this in New
                  Zealand is a good idea since you'll have more ready access to the
                  materials you'll need.

                  Best wishes,
                  Seth
                  Liberty, N35 #21



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                • Linda Lane Thornton
                  Thank you for this information, George.  I can see it s a job that will have to wait until we re in New Zealand next year. Best wishes for Christmas and the
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 5, 2008
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                    Thank you for this information, George.  I can see it's a job that will have to wait until we're in New Zealand next year.
                    Best wishes for Christmas and the New Year
                    Linda


                    From: naumangl <naumangl@...>
                    To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 8:50:17 PM
                    Subject: [campernicholson] Re: Replacing teak deck

                    --- In campernicholson@yahoogroups.com, Linda Lane Thornton
                    <lindalanethornton@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Folks
                    > Andy is thinking about taking off the teak deck on our Nic 35,
                    Coromandel Quest, which has seen better days.  We can´t afford to have
                    it replaced.  Has anyone done this, and what are the issues involved? 
                    We probably won´t tackle it until we reach New Zealand (we´re in Peru
                    at the moment) but want to get as much information as possible before
                    we start pulling things apart.
                    > Cheers
                    > Linda Lane Thornton
                    > Coromandel Quest No 66

                    Linda,
                    In Late October we started pulling the Teak off our CN 38 ketch built
                    in 1973. It was in real bad shape. Our Cabin top had teak screwed down
                    into the balsa core. We found the frame for the teak attached with
                    something like 5200. This adhesive also held down the king planks on
                    the cabin. The decks, bow and aft sections of the deck had simular
                    adhesive along their edges. The adhesive was extremely difficult to
                    remove. We drilled out and counter sunk each screw hole before filling
                    them with West system epoxy with filler. We found the jell coat
                    cracked along the decks close to the jib track. We covered the entire
                    deck with a thin layer of glass and plenty of epoxy. We have been
                    working nearly 2 months. I will respond to direct questions if our
                    experiences seem of value. It has turned cold in North Carolina so the
                    painting may take place in the spring. Can't say it was done correctly
                    write back in 5 years. Good luck! willing to help.
                    George Nauman 
                    >



                    ------------------------------------

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                  • Linda Lane Thornton
                    Thank you for this information, Steve.  I can see it s a job that will have to wait until we re in New Zealand next year. Best wishes for Christmas and the
                    Message 9 of 10 , Dec 5, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thank you for this information, Steve.  I can see it's a job that will have to wait until we're in New Zealand next year.
                      Best wishes for Christmas and the New Year
                      Linda


                      From: "s.will@..." <s.will@...>
                      To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 4:09:36 PM
                      Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Replacing teak deck

                      Hi LLT,
                      Check out a product named Tuff Coat on-line. Attractive cost effective cover-up and excellent nonskid. We applied it a couple years ago.
                      Cheers,
                      Steve
                      CN42 Gavia

                      Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


                      From: Linda Lane Thornton
                      Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:56:45 -0800 (PST)
                      To: <campernicholson@yahoogroups.com>
                      Subject: [campernicholson] Replacing teak deck

                      Hi Folks
                      Andy is thinking about taking off the teak deck on our Nic 35, Coromandel Quest, which has seen better days.  We can´t afford to have it replaced.  Has anyone done this, and what are the issues involved?  We probably won´t tackle it until we reach New Zealand (we´re in Peru at the moment) but want to get as much information as possible before we start pulling things apart.
                      Cheers
                      Linda Lane Thornton
                      Coromandel Quest No 66


                    • Linda Lane Thornton
                      Thank you for this information, Graham.  I can see it s a job that will have to wait until we re in New Zealand next year. Best wishes for Christmas and the
                      Message 10 of 10 , Dec 5, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Thank you for this information, Graham.  I can see it's a job that will have to wait until we're in New Zealand next year.
                        Best wishes for Christmas and the New Year
                        Linda


                        From: Graham Norbury <gnorbury@...>
                        To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 7:13:28 AM
                        Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Re: Replacing teak deck

                        Linda,

                        In Late October we started pulling the Teak off our CN 38 ketch built
                        in 1973. It was in real bad shape. Our Cabin top had teak screwed down
                        into the balsa core. We found the frame for the teak attached with
                        something like 5200. This adhesive also held down the king planks on
                        the cabin. The decks, bow and aft sections of the deck had simular
                        adhesive along their edges. The adhesive was extremely difficult to
                        remove. We drilled out and counter sunk each screw hole before filling
                        them with West system epoxy with filler. We found the jell coat
                        cracked along the decks close to the jib track. We covered the entire
                        deck with a thin layer of glass and plenty of epoxy. We have been
                        working nearly 2 months. I will respond to direct questions if our
                        experiences seem of value. It has turned cold in North Carolina so the
                        painting may take place in the spring. Can't say it was done correctly
                        write back in 5 years. Good luck! willing to help.
                        George Nauman
                        >


                        For what its worth, that is how we do it professionally in the boatyard. 

                        Once the glass surface has been filled & faired, we usually overcoat the smooth areas with AwlGrip, and the non-skid with GripTex.
                        Graham


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