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Storm Foresail

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  • john and tracey crosby
    I have recently bought a Nic 35, Hull No 178, which has a roller foresail. I am interested in how to configure the foresail for heavy weather offshore
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 20, 2006
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      I have recently bought a Nic 35, Hull No 178, which has a roller
      foresail. I am interested in how to configure the foresail for heavy
      weather offshore sailing. Is rolling in to just a small amount of
      sail sufficient, is it better to go for one of the sails that can be
      hoisted over the rolled up foresail, eg Gale Sail or Kemp Storm
      Sleeve, or has anyone fitted an inner stay so that a proper hanked on
      storm jib can be used? I would welcome the views of anyone who has
      been in heavy weather offshore to know what worked best for them.
      Thanks, John Crosby
    • steve huhn
      Hi John, I am the owner of Errant # 179. I have installed a inner forestay on the vessel. On that stay I have a Jib sail that has a loose rolling foot. That
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 20, 2006
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        Hi John,
         
           I am the owner of Errant # 179. I have installed a inner forestay on the vessel. On that stay I have a Jib sail that has a loose rolling foot. That allows the sail to be furled to a storm jib when needed. The cloth is 6 oz pentex. It was designed by Kappa Sails in Westbrook CT.
           In general the foresail cannot be furled to a small enough area where it will retain any shape for sailing. Also hoisting a sleeve type sail over the furled headsail creates the center of effort to far forward making steering diffucult under gail conditions.
            On Errant I have also installed a storm trysail on its own track that can be hoisted on the topping lift. The combination of those sails makes for fairly easy handling in poor conditions. I have also installed running back stays that I leave loose until hoisting the storm sails.
            I have been told that the backstays are not needed on the Nic 35 under all but the most adverse condition.
            In gale conditions I tend to hoist my jib sail and never pull out the headsail. With the storm trysail in a bag at the foot of the mast I pull that out instead of double reefing the main.
            I could most likely find the sail designs and measurements if you would like a copy.
         
        Best regards
         
        Steve Huhn

        john and tracey crosby <crosby@...> wrote:
        I have recently bought a Nic 35, Hull No 178, which has a roller
        foresail. I am interested in how to configure the foresail for heavy
        weather offshore sailing. Is rolling in to just a small amount of
        sail sufficient, is it better to go for one of the sails that can be
        hoisted over the rolled up foresail, eg Gale Sail or Kemp Storm
        Sleeve, or has anyone fitted an inner stay so that a proper hanked on
        storm jib can be used? I would welcome the views of anyone who has
        been in heavy weather offshore to know what worked best for them.
        Thanks, John Crosby



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      • JIM TEIPEN
        John, Alegria is fitted with a stowable inner forestay that extends from about spreader level on the mast to a deck fitting that is reinforced below decks with
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 20, 2006
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          John,

          Alegria is fitted with a stowable inner forestay that extends from about
          spreader level on the mast to a deck fitting that is reinforced below decks
          with a baby stay fixed to an aluminum plate glassed into the stem of the
          boat. There is a hank on storm jib for the forestay and a storm trysail
          that is raised in the mast track above the furled mainsail. The jib is on
          a roller furler and there's two reef points on the main. We've sailed in 40
          to 45 knots of wind under double reefed main with just a tiny amount of jib
          but the center of effort is probably better situated with the storm sails
          up. Criticisms that I've heard regarding sails like the Gale Sail that fit
          over a furled jib are that it's too far forward and also that they are
          difficult to raise in heavy wind conditions.

          Wishing you all the best with your new boat.

          Jim
          SV Alegria
          CN 35 #68


          >From: "john and tracey crosby" <crosby@...>
          >Reply-To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
          >To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: [campernicholson] Storm Foresail
          >Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 19:09:18 -0000
          >
          >I have recently bought a Nic 35, Hull No 178, which has a roller
          >foresail. I am interested in how to configure the foresail for heavy
          >weather offshore sailing. Is rolling in to just a small amount of
          >sail sufficient, is it better to go for one of the sails that can be
          >hoisted over the rolled up foresail, eg Gale Sail or Kemp Storm
          >Sleeve, or has anyone fitted an inner stay so that a proper hanked on
          >storm jib can be used? I would welcome the views of anyone who has
          >been in heavy weather offshore to know what worked best for them.
          >Thanks, John Crosby
          >
          >
        • Graham Norbury
          When we owned Luna Azul, she was equipped with a removable solent stay and hanked on storm jib located immediately behind the furler. While perhaps not an
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 21, 2006
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            When we owned Luna Azul, she was equipped with a removable "solent stay" and hanked on storm jib located immediately behind the furler.  While perhaps not an ideal setup considering it was masthead rigged, it did perform very well for two days off the wind in 30-45kts during our passage to St. Thomas.
             
            Seems to me, the biggest disadvantage of adding a true cutter stay is the need to install a reinforced padeye and tie-rod bisecting the v-berth.  Loosing the only "double" bunk was not an option for us...
             
            Graham
          • JOHN LARSON
            On Passport we have a setup like Graham Norbury had on Luna Azul. While we haven t been caught out in really awful weather, we have used our number two jib
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 22, 2006
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              On Passport we have a setup like Graham Norbury had on Luna Azul.  While we haven't been caught out in really awful weather, we have used our number two jib (about 100%) that came with the boat on the inner stay in winds gusting over 40 kt.  We've done this in both down wind and cross wind situations and found the boat balanced well and was easy to handle in each case. 
               
              The inner stay on Passport starts down from the masthead at about the point the side stays connect, or perhaps a bit lower, and ends near the aft end of the stainless bow plate.  The obvious advantage is that no running back stays are required and the bow connection requires little modification and no reinforcement.   The stay, when disconnected from the bow, stores along the port side fastened to the aft jumper chainplate and tied off to a stantion base in order to tension it.  The arrangement was recommended to us by a sailmaker, and to date, we think it's a good compromise.
               
              John Larson
              CN 35-85
            • Graham Norbury
              John, As designed by Camper & Nicholson, the solent stay comprised a masthead wire-to-rope halyard secured to the deck just aft of the furling drum, and
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 23, 2006
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                Message
                John,
                 
                As designed by Camper & Nicholson, the solent stay comprised a masthead wire-to-rope halyard secured to the deck just aft of the furling drum, and winched tight to form a removable inner stay.  A second (all rope) masthead halyard was used to hoist the storm jib, which also had a long pennant to raise the foot well clear of the deck.
                 
                My only modification to the original design replacing the two masthead halyards (genoa and spare) with Samson Technora (aramid) lines.  The end result was a zero-stretch inner stay that was far less abrasive to the brass hanks, lighter and easier to handle.  At first I wondered whether hanking on a jib to a piece of line would work, but we never had problems with chafe as the brass hanks were smooth inside.
                 
                Graham
                 
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Tracey & John Crosby [mailto:crosby@...]
                Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 1:02 PM
                To: gnorbury@...
                Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Storm Foresail

                Thanks for advice, Im not sure of correct etiquette re further replies, so forgive me if I shouldn’t be replying to you direct! I have 2 supplementary questions, as an additional stay was the solution I was thinking about, given that I still have the original hanked on sails (including storm jib), all which are in excellent (ie hardly used), but wanted confirmation.
                 
                First, what attachment did you use for top of stay to mast, and second, what halyard did you use for storm jib?
                 
                Thanks, John Crosby
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 12:58 PM
                Subject: RE: [campernicholson] Storm Foresail

                When we owned Luna Azul, she was equipped with a removable "solent stay" and hanked on storm jib located immediately behind the furler.  While perhaps not an ideal setup considering it was masthead rigged, it did perform very well for two days off the wind in 30-45kts during our passage to St. Thomas.
                 
                Seems to me, the biggest disadvantage of adding a true cutter stay is the need to install a reinforced padeye and tie-rod bisecting the v-berth.  Loosing the only "double" bunk was not an option for us...
                 
                Graham

              • Denece Vincent
                Butting in late as usual. We have the solent stay also but have never used it (the one time we would have we were too tired to set it, or the trysail). But we
                Message 7 of 7 , Nov 14, 2006
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                  Butting in late as usual.
                  We have the solent stay also but have never used it (the one time we would have we were too tired to set it, or the trysail). But we did OK with our old badly cut 120 rolled down to about 6 square feet. Well, other than permanently crinkling the sail!  This downwind in well over 40 knots...not sure how far over since we haven't had working wind instrument in years!
                   
                  You just do what you can when you have to .
                   
                  Denece
                   
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