Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Rig/deck

Expand Messages
  • Thomas J. Middelthon
    Hello ! Last weekend I used my boat in medium/strong winds, sailing on the west coast of Norway and half way (!) across to Shetland and back. The boat behaved
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 8, 2001
      Hello !

      Last weekend I used my boat in medium/strong winds, sailing on the west coast of Norway and half way (!) across to Shetland and back. The boat behaved very well, but what really impressed me and the rest of the crew was the performance of the Hydrovane wind steering. We hardly touched the steering wheel for 40 hrs. This is really one of the pieces of equipment on board which I am most happy with. Even my wife loves it !

      But there was one thing that really scared me; The deck fixing for the standing rigging, the aft one on the side, holding the top and aft wires - the cap shrouds and aft lowers (?), nearly came out of the deck ! There are now big cracks around them, and the whole thing is moving when i pull the wires. I took away the interior plate on the inside of the boat and was really frightened; There is no extra enforcement for the fixing of the shrouds/lowers. The bolts go through the deck/hull, and there is an aluminium plate under the deck which is badly bent. Nothing else. Is this what I have seen mentioned on these pages as "cahin plates" (have not payed much notice to those mails) - I would have expected some stainless steel plates moulded to the hull or something - but nothing ! I cannot understand how the boat can possibly have been designed with this week construction. It looks like I could have easily lost my mast.

      My boat is N35 #40. Was this changed later ? Are all your boats the same ? Is there a standard way of fixing/handling this ? I plan to have some stainless steel welded together, epoxy this to the inside hull/deck and fix the bolts coming down to this. I am not quite sure how this is best done. Anyway, it'll be quite a job, and I am not looking forward to it now just before the summer holidays.

      Anyway, if you are not sure how this is done/constructed on your boat - check it !


      Thomas
      North Wind
    • jaaxcarr@citi-link.com
      Thomas, I don t have any suggestions on how to remedy your situation, as possible other CN 35 owners with your rigging might. We have a 1979 CN 35, #189 and it
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 8, 2001
        Thomas,
        I don't have any suggestions on how to remedy your situation, as
        possible other CN 35 owners with your rigging might. We have a 1979 CN
        35, #189 and it has the common for and aft lower shrouds and a cap
        shroud in between on its own.On our boat search we had seen another CN
        35 with your rigging and even noticed the fiberglass pad on the deck
        where an aft lower could have been installed. During our boat search
        we were utilizing Bob Perry, boat designer, as a consultant. He has a
        service where if you pay $350, "you can talk boats for life". It was
        very useful for us for a number of reasons. Anyway, I mentioned to him
        this rigging I encountered like your boat, and as I remember he said I
        made that mistake too in my earlier years. He described what he was
        trying to accomplish, but I can't remember.If you are curious, I could
        see if my $350 is still running, and write him. Or you could describe
        what we have been talking about, and e-mail him. He is not shy about
        saying what is on his mind, yes or no.( his address is:
        robertp@... ) You won't get retrofit advice, but design theory.
        Let me know.

        Tom Jaax






        --- In campernicholson@y..., "Thomas J. Middelthon" <middel@o...>
        wrote:
        > Hello !
        >
        > Last weekend I used my boat in medium/strong winds, sailing on the west coast of Norway and half way (!) across to Shetland and back. The boat behaved very well, but what really impressed me and the rest of the crew was the performance of the Hydrovane wind steering. We hardly touched the steering wheel for 40 hrs. This is really one of the pieces of equipment on board which I am most happy with. Even my wife loves it !
        >
        > But there was one thing that really scared me; The deck fixing for the standing rigging, the aft one on the side, holding the top and aft wires - the cap shrouds and aft lowers (?), nearly came out of the deck ! There are now big cracks around them, and the whole thing is moving when i pull the wires. I took away the interior plate on the inside of the boat and was really frightened; There is no extra enforcement for the fixing of the shrouds/lowers. The bolts go through the deck/hull, and there is an aluminium plate under the deck which is badly bent. Nothing else. Is this what I have seen mentioned on these pages as "cahin plates" (have not payed much notice to those mails) - I would have expected some stainless steel plates moulded to the hull or something - but nothing ! I cannot understand how the boat can possibly have been designed with this week construction. It looks like I could have easily lost my mast.
        >
        > My boat is N35 #40. Was this changed later ? Are all your boats the same ? Is there a standard way of fixing/handling this ? I plan to have some stainless steel welded together, epoxy this to the inside hull/deck and fix the bolts coming down to this. I am not quite sure how this is best done. Anyway, it'll be quite a job, and I am not looking forward to it now just before the summer holidays.
        >
        > Anyway, if you are not sure how this is done/constructed on your boat - check it !
        >
        >
        > Thomas
        > North Wind
      • Harrison Evatt
        According to the review of the Nic 35 in the 1992 edition of Practical Boat Buying by the editors of Practical Sailor here in the US, the chainplates on
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 9, 2001
          According to the review of the Nic 35 in the 1992 edition of "Practical Boat Buying" by the editors of "Practical Sailor" here in the US, the chainplates on the Nic 35 are "heavy duty stainless steel 'hairpins' and are bolted through what would be called the beam shelf on a wooden boat. "
          They also note that they had reservations about this type of chainplate initially but inspected a Nic 40 which had been rolled over and dismasted with no chainplate damage to this type of chainplate. They also point out that it was approved by Lloyds which is very conservative.

          Perhaps the nuts on the underside of the backing plate had loosened allowing the fitting to move around , pull up under load and then bend the backing plate. If the backing plate was up tight against the underside of the deck, I believe that the whole deck area around the chainplate would have had to pull up and distort. At the least, all other chainplates should be inspected.
          Harrison

          jaaxcarr@... wrote:

          > Thomas,
          > I don't have any suggestions on how to remedy your situation, as
          > possible other CN 35 owners with your rigging might. We have a 1979 CN
          > 35, #189 and it has the common for and aft lower shrouds and a cap
          > shroud in between on its own.On our boat search we had seen another CN
          > 35 with your rigging and even noticed the fiberglass pad on the deck
          > where an aft lower could have been installed. During our boat search
          > we were utilizing Bob Perry, boat designer, as a consultant. He has a
          > service where if you pay $350, "you can talk boats for life". It was
          > very useful for us for a number of reasons. Anyway, I mentioned to him
          > this rigging I encountered like your boat, and as I remember he said I
          > made that mistake too in my earlier years. He described what he was
          > trying to accomplish, but I can't remember.If you are curious, I could
          > see if my $350 is still running, and write him. Or you could describe
          > what we have been talking about, and e-mail him. He is not shy about
          > saying what is on his mind, yes or no.( his address is:
          > robertp@... ) You won't get retrofit advice, but design theory.
          > Let me know.
          >
          > Tom Jaax
          >
          > --- In campernicholson@y..., "Thomas J. Middelthon" <middel@o...>
          > wrote:
          > > Hello !
          > >
          > > Last weekend I used my boat in medium/strong winds, sailing on the west coast of Norway and half way (!) across to Shetland and back. The boat behaved very well, but what really impressed me and the rest of the crew was the performance of the Hydrovane wind steering. We hardly touched the steering wheel for 40 hrs. This is really one of the pieces of equipment on board which I am most happy with. Even my wife loves it !
          > >
          > > But there was one thing that really scared me; The deck fixing for the standing rigging, the aft one on the side, holding the top and aft wires - the cap shrouds and aft lowers (?), nearly came out of the deck ! There are now big cracks around them, and the whole thing is moving when i pull the wires. I took away the interior plate on the inside of the boat and was really frightened; There is no extra enforcement for the fixing of the shrouds/lowers. The bolts go through the deck/hull, and there is an aluminium plate under the deck which is badly bent. Nothing else. Is this what I have seen mentioned on these pages as "cahin plates" (have not payed much notice to those mails) - I would have expected some stainless steel plates moulded to the hull or something - but nothing ! I cannot understand how the boat can possibly have been designed with this week construction. It looks like I could have easily lost my mast.
          > >
          > > My boat is N35 #40. Was this changed later ? Are all your boats the same ? Is there a standard way of fixing/handling this ? I plan to have some stainless steel welded together, epoxy this to the inside hull/deck and fix the bolts coming down to this. I am not quite sure how this is best done. Anyway, it'll be quite a job, and I am not looking forward to it now just before the summer holidays.
          > >
          > > Anyway, if you are not sure how this is done/constructed on your boat - check it !
          > >
          > >
          > > Thomas
          > > North Wind
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Jteipen@aol.com
          While I have never had any distortion of the deck complete failure of the chainplates, recently I removed and replaced my backstay when I had insulators put in
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 12, 2001
            While I have never had any distortion of the deck complete failure of the
            chainplates, recently I removed and replaced my backstay when I had
            insulators put in for a SSB antenna.  I took the opportunity to remove the
            stern chainplate so that I could rebed it.  I noticed quite a bit of pitting
            of the metal and some very small cracks.   While there was still a lot of
            good metal left, at the advice of the yard, I replaced it with a more
            traditional style chainplate that passes through a small plate on the  the
            deck and is through bolted into the stringer inside the rear lazarrete on the
            transom.  I can only guess that water had gotten past the bedding compound
            and caused some corrosion.

            I probably will replace all of the standing rigging in the next year or so.  
            I'm hoping that I don't find the same problem on the other chainplates.


            Jim
            SV Alegria
            CN 35  #68
          • Albert G. Boyce
            Jim I had crazing on the deck around the chainplate for the backstay. The recommendation I received was similar to yours - to beef up the installation by
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 13, 2001
              Jim
               
              I had crazing on the deck around the chainplate for the backstay.  The recommendation I received was similar to yours - to beef up the installation by fabricating a using a backing plate that
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Jteipen@... [mailto:Jteipen@...]
              Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 1:32 AM
              To: campernicholson@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [campernicholson] Re: Rig/deck

              While I have never had any distortion of the deck complete failure of the
              chainplates, recently I removed and replaced my backstay when I had
              insulators put in for a SSB antenna.  I took the opportunity to remove the
              stern chainplate so that I could rebed it.  I noticed quite a bit of pitting
              of the metal and some very small cracks.   While there was still a lot of
              good metal left, at the advice of the yard, I replaced it with a more
              traditional style chainplate that passes through a small plate on the  the
              deck and is through bolted into the stringer inside the rear lazarrete on the
              transom.  I can only guess that water had gotten past the bedding compound
              and caused some corrosion.

              I probably will replace all of the standing rigging in the next year or so.  
              I'm hoping that I don't find the same problem on the other chainplates.


              Jim
              SV Alegria
              CN 35  #68


              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            • Albert G. Boyce
              Jim I had deck crazing around the chainplate for the backstay. The recommendation I received was similar to yours - beef up the installation by fabricating a
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 13, 2001
                Jim
                 
                I had deck crazing around the chainplate for the backstay.  The recommendation I received was similar to yours - beef up the installation by fabricating a backing plate that would extend down both sides of the knee and be thru-bolted through it; or have the backing plate  extend down inside the transom and be thru-bolted through the transom.  The idea was the same - to anchor the chainplate to something other than just the deck.
                 
                I also had deck crazing around the jib pad-eyes.  I discovered that these were installed by Camper Nicholson without any backing plates.  I installed backing plates and I am hoping that this will cure the problem.
                 
                I had all of the standing rigging replaced this year by Chesapeake Rigging of Annapolis.  They were very good about letting me do as much of the work as I could in order to save money.  They were always on time, put our agreement in writing, and the work was first rate.  I had the work done during winter and was able to negotiate a fair deal.
                 
                I also had a positive experience with Steve Colt, of Island Compass in Jacksonville, Florida.  My Sestrel compass was leaking and in major need of repair.  I was referred to Steve Colt by a compass adjustor in Annapolis.  I shipped the compass to Steve and he repaired it and had it back to me in less than 2 weeks, including time in transit both ways. He had the parts in stock.  He even had the suncover powder coated... The final bill was less than his original estimate...
                 
                Its not that often that I have had good experiences with boatyards, contractors, etc and I thought I would pass these two along.
                 
                Al Boyce
                Discovery CN 35 #132
                 
                 
              • Jeffrey Moorman
                Thomas, I have found MANY boats with the tension on the aft lowers excessive. These stays should be balanced with the forward lowers to provide columnar
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 14, 2001
                  Thomas,

                  I have found MANY boats with the tension on the aft lowers excessive. These stays should be balanced with the forward lowers to provide columnar rigidity for the mast, ie, to keep the mast from bending forward or aft in the middle. The main lowers do the majority of the mid-rig heavy work in conjunction with the main uppers. The aft lowers will suffer if the boat is overpowered downwind (the Nic 35 will carry a great deal MORE sail off the wind than necessary without complaint) in most cases to de-power folks will induce twist in the mainsail, this is fine for short periods, but OFFSHORE the loads induced on the mast in the area of the spreaders can be dangerous.

                  A possible solution to your compromised lowers might be running back stays, they require more attention but the loads are more effectively handled.

                  Jeff Moorman
                  LaBoheme
                  Annapolis
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.