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Muhamet çami Kyçyku[14] (1784 – 1844

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  • albertino rakipi
    Muhamet çami ( Kyçyku) Muhamet Kyçyku[14] (1784 – 1844) sherben si pike tranzitive ndermjet versetit klasik teBejtexhijve dhe poezise se Rilindjes se
    Message 1 of 3 , Apr 29, 2008
      Muhamet çami ( Kyçyku)
      Muhamet Kyçyku[14] (1784 – 1844)

      sherben si pike tranzitive ndermjet versetit klasik
      teBejtexhijve dhe poezise se Rilindjes se gjysmes se
      dyte teshekullit te nentembedhjete. Kyçyku, qe njihet
      gjithashtusi Muhamet Cami, sihte nga Konispoli ne Jug
      te Shqiperisese sotme. Ai studioi teologjine Islame
      per njembedhjetevjet ne Kairo, ku nje komunitet i madh
      Shqiptar ekzistonte.Gjate kthimit ne fshatin e tij te
      lindjes ai sherbeu sihoxhe dhe vdiq me 1844 (1260
      P.H.). Kyçyku ishte relativisht nje autor profilik qe
      shkroi nedialektin Cam, dhe sic duket eshte poeti i
      pare Shqiptar qete kete shkruar peome te gjate.
      Vazhdon me poshte ne sitin e shoqates çameria.

      http://shoqatacameria.blogspot.com/2008/04/muhamet-ami-kyyku.html

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    • albertinobe
      When Chams Attack by Douglas Muir Greece and Albania are having a small diplomatic tiff. If reading about that sort of thing interests you, read on. So: two
      Message 2 of 3 , Apr 29, 2008
        When Chams Attack
        by Douglas Muir

        Greece and Albania are having a small diplomatic tiff. If reading
        about that sort of thing interests you, read on.

        So: two weeks ago, Greek President Karolos Papoulias' was scheduled
        to meet with Albanian President Alfred Moisiu, in the southern
        Albanian town of Sarande. I'm pretty sure this was the first meeting
        of Greek and Albanian heads of state in a long time. So, fairly big
        deal by regional standards.

        But it didn't happen, because of the Chams. About 200 of them. They
        showed up outside the hotel in Saranda where President Papoulias was
        staying, waved signs, shouted, and generally made a nuisance of
        themselves.

        President Papoulias didn't take this at all well. He cancelled the
        meeting with President Moisiu and went back to Greece in a huff. A
        day or two later, Greece issued a demarche to Albania. (A demarche is
        a formal diplomatic note from one country to another. It's about a 5
        on the diplomatic hissy-fit scale, higher than merely expressing
        disapproval but lower than recalling your ambassador.) The demarche
        expressed regret that Albania did not "take the necessary precautions
        so that the meeting between the Greek and Albanian Presidents could
        take place without hindrance." Worse yet, they did not "take the
        necessary measures to discourage certain familiar extremist elements
        which, in their effort to obstruct the normal development of
        bilateral relations, continue to promote unacceptable and non-
        existent issues, at the very moment when Albania is attempting to
        proceed with steps fulfilling its European ambitions".

        Got that? Okay, now comes an obvious question.

        What, exactly, are Chams?

        Right. We fire up the Wayback Machine and go back to 1913, when
        Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia — having just defeated the Ottoman Turks
        in the First Balkan War — are dividing up Turkey's possessions in
        Europe. Greece got, among other things, a chunk of territory called
        Chameria. Chameria is in what's now northwest Greece, and in 1913 it
        was inhabited by a mixed population of Muslim Albanians, Orthodox
        Albanians, Turks, and Greeks. We won't delve into the hotly disputed
        issue of how many of which, but suffice it to say that the Muslim
        Albanians were at least a large minority.

        The Turks all left in 1923, and the Orthodox Albanians… well, it's
        not clear what happened to them. Some probably became Greek. Never
        mind that now. That left the Muslim Albanians, now a minority in a
        frontier area. Unsurprisingly, the Greek state didn't treat them very
        well.

        So, come 1941, the Muslim Albanians of Chameria welcomed the Germans
        with open arms. For the next three years, they fought with the Axis
        occupiers against the Greeks.

        So, when the Germans left Greece in 1944, the Greeks turned around
        and drove the Muslim Albanians out of Chameria. Well, some they just
        killed, but somewhere between 20,000 and 35,000 of them got away,
        either fled or were expelled, and went over the northern border and
        into Albania. Where they became known as the Chams.

        (It's not widely realized that Greece underwent a small wave of
        ethnic cleansing in 1944, followed by a bigger one in 1948, at the
        end of the Greek Civil War. Pretty successful ethnic cleansing, too.
        But that's a story for another post.)

        Still with me? Okay, so the new Communist government of Albania did
        not exactly welcome the Chams. They may have been fellow Albanians,
        but they were also Axis collaborators, and the Communists' first
        claim to credibility was that they were anti-Axis. So the Chams
        weren't granted citizenship in Albania until the 1950s, and were
        second-class citizens for a long time thereafter. And because they
        weren't integrating so well into Albania, the Chams held strongly to
        memories of their lost homeland.

        Sixty years later, they still do. The Chams who were protesting
        outside President Papoulias' hotel were asking that the Greek
        government (1) acknowledge that ethnic cleansing took place, and (2)
        recompense them for their lost homes, farms, and property. Okay,
        their grandparents' lost homes and property, but the principle is the
        same.

        As to the protest: it seems to have been fairly peaceful. It's
        possible that it may have been arranged with the connivance of the
        Albanian government — there were claims that some of the Chams had
        been bussed in from northern Albania, 200 km away — but this is not
        certain. The Greek President certainly wasn't in any danger. (He
        wasn't even in the hotel. He was at the Greek consulate in
        Gjirokaster, miles away.) The Albanian President's office described
        it as "a peaceful demonstration of minor dimensions and under the
        complete supervision of security services," and the Greeks have not
        denied this. So apparently just the appearance of the Chams was
        offensive enough to cause the Greek President to cancel his trip on
        the spot.

        Okay. So what, if anything, does this tell us about Greece and
        Albania today?

        One, the Greeks still have a tender spot about ethnic minority
        issues. Very tender. (Greece basically pretends it doesn't have
        ethnic minorities. Long story.) Go back and check out that demarche
        again. "Extremist elements". "Unacceptable and non-existent issues".
        And, of course, the veiled threat about Europe. Keep this up,
        Albanians, and see how far your EU candidacy gets.

        Two, there's a broad consensus in Greek politics that they shouldn't
        take any guff from uppity Albanians. All the major Greek parties
        issued statements on the Cham episode, and all pretty much said the
        same thing. PASOK, the main opposition party, joined with the
        government in insisting that Albania "must prevent the activity of
        extremist elements in every way". Even the Communists said that
        the "abuse " against the Greek President was "part of a general
        negative framework being shaped in the region as a result of
        imperialist interventions and rivalries." So, Greece is not likely to
        budge on this issue.

        Three, it could be that the new Berisha government in Albania is
        feeling its oats. From 1997 until about two months ago, Albania was
        governed by Fatos Nano. Nano was broadly pro-Greek… so much so, that
        Albanians gave him the nickname "that Greek bastard". More generally,
        he was more interested in economic development than in nationalism.

        Berisha is something else again. He's a serious old-fashioned Balkan
        nationalist, and he doesn't much like Greece at all. So, I wouldn't
        be at all surprised to find out that the Chams were indeed bussed
        into Saranda, and that this was a test of the waters.

        So. What do I think will happen now? Not much. But if it is Berisha's
        people at work, then watch for the Chams to pop up again at some time
        convenient for the Albanian government. Like, when they really want
        to distract public attention, or unify public opinion against the
        Greeks.

        Possible consequences? Well, so far Greek threats to derail EU
        accession have been pretty much empty bluster. At various times,
        Greek politicians have implicitly or explicitly threatened to veto
        the accession of theTurks, the Bulgarians, and the Macedonians.
        Adding Albania to the list gives Greece the dubious honor of being
        the only country to threaten a veto against every single one of its
        neighbors. But, to date, it's been only threats. I doubt Albania will
        be different…

        …unless Berisha is even more whack than I think he is. (And I think
        he's kinda whack.) In which case, who knows? The Cham thing could
        turn into a nasty game of brinksmanship. A really stupid nasty game
        of brinksmanship, but that's far from unknown around here.

        – What do I think should happen? Well, I feel sorry for the Chams,
        but supporting the Axis in WWII was a bad idea, and sixty years is a
        long time. I'd put them in the same category as the Sudeten Germans.
        They should get an acknowledgment from the Greek government that they
        were ethnically cleansed, and maybe some token recompense, but
        otherwise I wouldn't disturb the status quo.

        Of course, the "Greeks acknowledge ethnic cleansing" part is simply
        not going to happen. The Greeks won't acknowledge what they did. And
        without that, there's no way the Chams will forgive or forget.
        Memories are long around here.


        --- In cameria@yahoogroups.com, albertino rakipi <albertinobe@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Muhamet çami ( Kyçyku)
        > Muhamet Kyçyku[14] (1784 – 1844)
        >
        > sherben si pike tranzitive ndermjet versetit klasik
        > teBejtexhijve dhe poezise se Rilindjes se gjysmes se
        > dyte teshekullit te nentembedhjete. Kyçyku, qe njihet
        > gjithashtusi Muhamet Cami, sihte nga Konispoli ne Jug
        > te Shqiperisese sotme. Ai studioi teologjine Islame
        > per njembedhjetevjet ne Kairo, ku nje komunitet i madh
        > Shqiptar ekzistonte.Gjate kthimit ne fshatin e tij te
        > lindjes ai sherbeu sihoxhe dhe vdiq me 1844 (1260
        > P.H.). Kyçyku ishte relativisht nje autor profilik qe
        > shkroi nedialektin Cam, dhe sic duket eshte poeti i
        > pare Shqiptar qete kete shkruar peome te gjate.
        > Vazhdon me poshte ne sitin e shoqates çameria.
        >
        > http://shoqatacameria.blogspot.com/2008/04/muhamet-ami-kyyku.html
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > En finir avec le spam? Yahoo! Mail vous offre la meilleure
        protection possible contre les messages non sollicités
        > http://mail.yahoo.fr Yahoo! Mail
        >
      • albertinobe
        Tchameria ou la région de Tchamourie (comme avait l habitude de le nommer les militaires français au 19 siècle) est situé géographiquement au nord-ouest
        Message 3 of 3 , Apr 29, 2008
          Tchameria ou la région de Tchamourie (comme avait l'habitude de le
          nommer les militaires français au 19 siècle) est situé
          géographiquement au nord-ouest de la Grèce. Cette merveilleuse
          région a un très riche héritage Albanais, et a été injustement annexé
          que en 1912 par la Grèce. L'annexion de Tchameria par la Grèce
          n'était que la conséquence de la décision des Grands Pouvoirs de
          donner Tchameria à la Grèce, de même comme les Grands Pouvoir
          avaient pris de pareilles décisions de donner le Kosovo et d'autres
          territoires Albanais à la Serbie, au Monténégro, et à la Macedoine.
          La parole Çam (Tcham) est une évolution du mot T'cham ou T'chamis ou
          Thiamis qui est le nom de l'ancienne rivière qui passe à travers la
          Tchameria( le mot T'chamis apparaît dans beaucoup d'anciens plans
          militaires et géographiques Romaines et Helléniques prouvant ainsi
          que le mot Tchameria (Çameria en albanais) est plus ancien que le mot
          Epirus , et est utilisé que par nous les albanais). Une autre branche
          de cette rivière est encore connu de nos jours sous le nom de « lumi
          i Kallamait » ( la rivière de Kallamai). Ce qui est important a
          savoir est que tout dans la Tchameria est albanais dans tous les sens
          tu terme. Le mot Çameria a plus un sens topologique, mais les Çams
          (tchams)(c'est comme ça qu'on appelle les habitants de la Çameria)
          ont de très fortes ethnicité, traditions et coutumes albanais.
          Tchameria a un sens ethno géographique très bien défini et qui est
          fortement albanais. Un grand nombre de la population tchame situé
          sur la zone côtière qui descend jusqu'au gouffre de Préveza. Un autre
          nombre considérable de villes et villages tchames sont situé des deux
          cotés de la rivière Kallamai. Le reste des villes et villages tchames
          sont situé dans de plus hautes places comme les collines et les
          montagnes.

          Le gouvernement grecque a été très hostile envers les tchams et la
          raison principale est que la Tchameria a une très forte identité
          albanaise et musulmane. Une autre raison des hostilités Grecques est
          le fait que les grecs ont hérité une politique très hostile envers
          les tchams. Durant le lapsus de temps entre 1854-1877 les albanais de
          Tchameria ont résisté successivement aux attaques des « Andartes »
          (criminels et bandes organisés) Grecques. Pendant la première et la
          deuxième guerre mondiale les troupes grecques ont encore attaqué la
          Tchameria. Le gouvernement (provisoire) de Vlora(Albanie) répondu en
          envoyant des troupes militaires pour aider la population musulmane
          albanaise de Tchameria, mais la décision de la Conférence des
          Ambassadeurs assigna Tchameria à la Grèce. Comme résultat de la
          décision des Grands Pouvoirs les forces grecques guidé par la figure
          détestée de Napoléon Zerva lança des attaques sur la population
          civile tchame qui se terminèrent par la extermination de milliers de
          villages musulmans et de beaucoup de villes. Une grande partie de la
          population fuyant vers l'Albanie se sauva de ce grand bain de sang.
          De nos jours les tchams orthodoxes qui sont resté en Grèce sont
          décris comme de mauvais gens par l'étouffante propagande nationaliste
          grecque qui est basé sur le fait qu'ils refusent l'assimilation comme
          est le cas de certains arvanites (albanais orthodoxes). De nos jours
          le nombre des tchams en Grèce est d'un million sans tenir compte des
          tchams musulmans qui ont fui et qui vivent actuellement en Albanie et
          en Turquie. Il faut souligner le fait qu'il y a beaucoup de villages
          albanophones en Grèce mais seulement les
          Albanais de Tchameria se définissent comme des Shqiptars ( Albanais).
          Avant la deuxième guerre mondiale la population de Tchameria était
          93% Albanais, le reste étaient des autres groupes ethniques comme
          Grecs, Valaques, Gitans etc. Au 19éme siècle 80% de la population de
          Tchameria était de religion musulmane et a 18% orthodoxe, le reste
          des juifs. Mais la deuxième guerre mondiale trouva la communauté
          albanaise avec les proportions de 50% orthodoxe et 50% musulmane (ce
          changement de proportion eu lieu en 70 ans). Durant la guerre la plus
          grande partie des musulmans furent massacrés et expulsé par les
          forces Grecques vers l'Albanie. Seulement une très petite partie des
          musulmans purent rester à condition qu'ils se convertissent à
          l'orthodoxie pour survivre aux massacres. Quoi qu'il en soit les deux
          communautés religieuses albanaises étaient très proches l'une de
          l'autre avant la guerre et meme de nos jours le gouvernement grecque
          n'a pas réussi à assimiler les albanais de Tchameria. La langue
          albanaise est parlée encore de nos jours dans beaucoup de villages à
          Tchameria mais le gouvernement grec avec très peu de pression de
          l'extérieur refuse de reconnaître la minorité albanaise en Grèce et
          d'ouvrir des écoles en albanais.

          La région est connue officiellement sous le nom d'Epire par le
          gouvernement Grecque mais dans le nord-ouest de la Grèce chaque
          personne connaît cette région sous le nom de Tchameria.
          Chaque personne de cette région témoigne qu'il-qu'elle est un tcham
          en affirmant que les tchams sont albanais. C'est pour cette raison
          que la Grèce ne reconnaît pas officiellement la région sous le nom de
          Tchameria. Le cœur de la Tchameria est aussi appelé Thesprotia.



          --- In cameria@yahoogroups.com, "albertinobe" <albertinobe@...> wrote:
          >
          > When Chams Attack
          > by Douglas Muir
          >
          > Greece and Albania are having a small diplomatic tiff. If reading
          > about that sort of thing interests you, read on.
          >
          > So: two weeks ago, Greek President Karolos Papoulias' was scheduled
          > to meet with Albanian President Alfred Moisiu, in the southern
          > Albanian town of Sarande. I'm pretty sure this was the first
          meeting
          > of Greek and Albanian heads of state in a long time. So, fairly big
          > deal by regional standards.
          >
          > But it didn't happen, because of the Chams. About 200 of them. They
          > showed up outside the hotel in Saranda where President Papoulias
          was
          > staying, waved signs, shouted, and generally made a nuisance of
          > themselves.
          >
          > President Papoulias didn't take this at all well. He cancelled the
          > meeting with President Moisiu and went back to Greece in a huff. A
          > day or two later, Greece issued a demarche to Albania. (A demarche
          is
          > a formal diplomatic note from one country to another. It's about a
          5
          > on the diplomatic hissy-fit scale, higher than merely expressing
          > disapproval but lower than recalling your ambassador.) The demarche
          > expressed regret that Albania did not "take the necessary
          precautions
          > so that the meeting between the Greek and Albanian Presidents could
          > take place without hindrance." Worse yet, they did not "take the
          > necessary measures to discourage certain familiar extremist
          elements
          > which, in their effort to obstruct the normal development of
          > bilateral relations, continue to promote unacceptable and non-
          > existent issues, at the very moment when Albania is attempting to
          > proceed with steps fulfilling its European ambitions".
          >
          > Got that? Okay, now comes an obvious question.
          >
          > What, exactly, are Chams?
          >
          > Right. We fire up the Wayback Machine and go back to 1913, when
          > Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia — having just defeated the Ottoman
          Turks
          > in the First Balkan War — are dividing up Turkey's possessions in
          > Europe. Greece got, among other things, a chunk of territory called
          > Chameria. Chameria is in what's now northwest Greece, and in 1913
          it
          > was inhabited by a mixed population of Muslim Albanians, Orthodox
          > Albanians, Turks, and Greeks. We won't delve into the hotly
          disputed
          > issue of how many of which, but suffice it to say that the Muslim
          > Albanians were at least a large minority.
          >
          > The Turks all left in 1923, and the Orthodox Albanians… well, it's
          > not clear what happened to them. Some probably became Greek. Never
          > mind that now. That left the Muslim Albanians, now a minority in a
          > frontier area. Unsurprisingly, the Greek state didn't treat them
          very
          > well.
          >
          > So, come 1941, the Muslim Albanians of Chameria welcomed the
          Germans
          > with open arms. For the next three years, they fought with the Axis
          > occupiers against the Greeks.
          >
          > So, when the Germans left Greece in 1944, the Greeks turned around
          > and drove the Muslim Albanians out of Chameria. Well, some they
          just
          > killed, but somewhere between 20,000 and 35,000 of them got away,
          > either fled or were expelled, and went over the northern border and
          > into Albania. Where they became known as the Chams.
          >
          > (It's not widely realized that Greece underwent a small wave of
          > ethnic cleansing in 1944, followed by a bigger one in 1948, at the
          > end of the Greek Civil War. Pretty successful ethnic cleansing,
          too.
          > But that's a story for another post.)
          >
          > Still with me? Okay, so the new Communist government of Albania did
          > not exactly welcome the Chams. They may have been fellow Albanians,
          > but they were also Axis collaborators, and the Communists' first
          > claim to credibility was that they were anti-Axis. So the Chams
          > weren't granted citizenship in Albania until the 1950s, and were
          > second-class citizens for a long time thereafter. And because they
          > weren't integrating so well into Albania, the Chams held strongly
          to
          > memories of their lost homeland.
          >
          > Sixty years later, they still do. The Chams who were protesting
          > outside President Papoulias' hotel were asking that the Greek
          > government (1) acknowledge that ethnic cleansing took place, and
          (2)
          > recompense them for their lost homes, farms, and property. Okay,
          > their grandparents' lost homes and property, but the principle is
          the
          > same.
          >
          > As to the protest: it seems to have been fairly peaceful. It's
          > possible that it may have been arranged with the connivance of the
          > Albanian government — there were claims that some of the Chams had
          > been bussed in from northern Albania, 200 km away — but this is not
          > certain. The Greek President certainly wasn't in any danger. (He
          > wasn't even in the hotel. He was at the Greek consulate in
          > Gjirokaster, miles away.) The Albanian President's office described
          > it as "a peaceful demonstration of minor dimensions and under the
          > complete supervision of security services," and the Greeks have not
          > denied this. So apparently just the appearance of the Chams was
          > offensive enough to cause the Greek President to cancel his trip on
          > the spot.
          >
          > Okay. So what, if anything, does this tell us about Greece and
          > Albania today?
          >
          > One, the Greeks still have a tender spot about ethnic minority
          > issues. Very tender. (Greece basically pretends it doesn't have
          > ethnic minorities. Long story.) Go back and check out that demarche
          > again. "Extremist elements". "Unacceptable and non-existent
          issues".
          > And, of course, the veiled threat about Europe. Keep this up,
          > Albanians, and see how far your EU candidacy gets.
          >
          > Two, there's a broad consensus in Greek politics that they
          shouldn't
          > take any guff from uppity Albanians. All the major Greek parties
          > issued statements on the Cham episode, and all pretty much said the
          > same thing. PASOK, the main opposition party, joined with the
          > government in insisting that Albania "must prevent the activity of
          > extremist elements in every way". Even the Communists said that
          > the "abuse " against the Greek President was "part of a general
          > negative framework being shaped in the region as a result of
          > imperialist interventions and rivalries." So, Greece is not likely
          to
          > budge on this issue.
          >
          > Three, it could be that the new Berisha government in Albania is
          > feeling its oats. From 1997 until about two months ago, Albania was
          > governed by Fatos Nano. Nano was broadly pro-Greek… so much so,
          that
          > Albanians gave him the nickname "that Greek bastard". More
          generally,
          > he was more interested in economic development than in nationalism.
          >
          > Berisha is something else again. He's a serious old-fashioned
          Balkan
          > nationalist, and he doesn't much like Greece at all. So, I wouldn't
          > be at all surprised to find out that the Chams were indeed bussed
          > into Saranda, and that this was a test of the waters.
          >
          > So. What do I think will happen now? Not much. But if it is
          Berisha's
          > people at work, then watch for the Chams to pop up again at some
          time
          > convenient for the Albanian government. Like, when they really want
          > to distract public attention, or unify public opinion against the
          > Greeks.
          >
          > Possible consequences? Well, so far Greek threats to derail EU
          > accession have been pretty much empty bluster. At various times,
          > Greek politicians have implicitly or explicitly threatened to veto
          > the accession of theTurks, the Bulgarians, and the Macedonians.
          > Adding Albania to the list gives Greece the dubious honor of being
          > the only country to threaten a veto against every single one of its
          > neighbors. But, to date, it's been only threats. I doubt Albania
          will
          > be different…
          >
          > …unless Berisha is even more whack than I think he is. (And I think
          > he's kinda whack.) In which case, who knows? The Cham thing could
          > turn into a nasty game of brinksmanship. A really stupid nasty game
          > of brinksmanship, but that's far from unknown around here.
          >
          > – What do I think should happen? Well, I feel sorry for the Chams,
          > but supporting the Axis in WWII was a bad idea, and sixty years is
          a
          > long time. I'd put them in the same category as the Sudeten
          Germans.
          > They should get an acknowledgment from the Greek government that
          they
          > were ethnically cleansed, and maybe some token recompense, but
          > otherwise I wouldn't disturb the status quo.
          >
          > Of course, the "Greeks acknowledge ethnic cleansing" part is simply
          > not going to happen. The Greeks won't acknowledge what they did.
          And
          > without that, there's no way the Chams will forgive or forget.
          > Memories are long around here.
          >
          >
          > --- In cameria@yahoogroups.com, albertino rakipi <albertinobe@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Muhamet çami ( Kyçyku)
          > > Muhamet Kyçyku[14] (1784 – 1844)
          > >
          > > sherben si pike tranzitive ndermjet versetit klasik
          > > teBejtexhijve dhe poezise se Rilindjes se gjysmes se
          > > dyte teshekullit te nentembedhjete. Kyçyku, qe njihet
          > > gjithashtusi Muhamet Cami, sihte nga Konispoli ne Jug
          > > te Shqiperisese sotme. Ai studioi teologjine Islame
          > > per njembedhjetevjet ne Kairo, ku nje komunitet i madh
          > > Shqiptar ekzistonte.Gjate kthimit ne fshatin e tij te
          > > lindjes ai sherbeu sihoxhe dhe vdiq me 1844 (1260
          > > P.H.). Kyçyku ishte relativisht nje autor profilik qe
          > > shkroi nedialektin Cam, dhe sic duket eshte poeti i
          > > pare Shqiptar qete kete shkruar peome te gjate.
          > > Vazhdon me poshte ne sitin e shoqates çameria.
          > >
          > > http://shoqatacameria.blogspot.com/2008/04/muhamet-ami-kyyku.html
          > >
          > > __________________________________________________
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          > protection possible contre les messages non sollicités
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          > >
          >
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