Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Firewire/iLink/IEEE1394 on Sony box

Expand Messages
  • marcinb007
    Is Firewire/iLink/IEEE1394 (these suppose to be different names for the same type of connection) connector on the back of Sony box functioning at this moment?
    Message 1 of 21 , Nov 2, 2002
      Is Firewire/iLink/IEEE1394 (these suppose to be different names for
      the same type of connection) connector on the back of Sony box
      functioning at this moment? I have tried to connect Sony box to my
      Mitsubishi HDTV integrated projection TV (WS-65869). TV reported new
      device as "TUNER" and it became available in the selection of
      attached devices. Unfortunately, I see TV no signal on my Mitsubishi.
      I have tried various channels, menus, ETC with no results.

      Scottbusy – in your previous post you mention that you are able
      to
      view signal on Sony TV. Is this strictly via iLink with no analog
      connections?
      Wilt – what should be the expected result of attaching Sony box
      using
      Firewire cable? Are there compatibility issues with non-Sony TVs?
      Other – any experience with Firewire connector on Sony box?

      PS. I already have Mitsubishi HDTV VCR attached via Firewire. I am
      able to record HDTV OTA signal via Firewire using TV's HDTV
      receiver
      and DVHS VCR. Devices (VCR and SONY) were not chained during my test,
      only single device – Sony box was attached.
    • scottbusy
      Not having seen the Mitsubishi work I cannot really tell you much about it. I can tell you how my Sony 34XBR2 works. You connect the 1394 from the Sony iO box
      Message 2 of 21 , Nov 2, 2002
        Not having seen the Mitsubishi work I cannot really tell you much
        about it. I can tell you how my Sony 34XBR2 works.

        You connect the 1394 from the Sony iO box to the port on the
        34XBR2. You then must associate the 1394 device with a Video Line .
        This is through an analog line. I have it associated with a Video
        Line 4. What happens is when I turn on Video Line 4 the 34XBR2
        recognizes the 1394 device and tunes in whatever channel the iO box
        is on. It then does a quick screen refresh and the DHG-M55CV
        indicator shows up in the upper left hand corner of the TV screen.
        The little i-link symbol on the Sony iO box also lights up. You can
        then watch any channel on the box on this firewire line. According
        to what Wilt has been saying we will be able to see the HDTV
        channels in HD on this line when the 256QAM signals are put on the
        system.

        I am sorry but I don't know if and how it will work with the
        Mitsubishi, but that is how it works with the Sony.

        Scott

        --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "marcinb007" <mbrys@h...> wrote:
        > Is Firewire/iLink/IEEE1394 (these suppose to be different names
        for
        > the same type of connection) connector on the back of Sony box
        > functioning at this moment? I have tried to connect Sony box to my
        > Mitsubishi HDTV integrated projection TV (WS-65869). TV reported
        new
        > device as "TUNER" and it became available in the selection of
        > attached devices. Unfortunately, I see TV no signal on my
        Mitsubishi.
        > I have tried various channels, menus, ETC with no results.
        >
        > Scottbusy – in your previous post you mention that you are able
        > to
        > view signal on Sony TV. Is this strictly via iLink with no analog
        > connections?
        > Wilt – what should be the expected result of attaching Sony box
        > using
        > Firewire cable? Are there compatibility issues with non-Sony TVs?
        > Other – any experience with Firewire connector on Sony box?
        >
        > PS. I already have Mitsubishi HDTV VCR attached via Firewire. I am
        > able to record HDTV OTA signal via Firewire using TV's HDTV
        > receiver
        > and DVHS VCR. Devices (VCR and SONY) were not chained during my
        test,
        > only single device – Sony box was attached.
      • marcinb007
        Scott thanks for quick reply. If I understand correctly, you have analog connection in addition to Firewire. Are you certain that the video signal goes over
        Message 3 of 21 , Nov 2, 2002
          Scott thanks for quick reply. If I understand correctly, you have
          analog connection in addition to Firewire. Are you certain that the
          video signal goes over Firewire? What will happen if wile you are
          using Line4 you temporarily disconnect analog video cable? Will
          signal remain? In many implementations Firewire provides control
          functionality but audio/video signal is going over the analog. Can
          you try and share the results?

          Martin
        • Wilt Hildenbrand
          Okay, I was going to tell Scott privately but this needs more public distribution; since there¹s no HD QAM on the system right now and since, as we know,
          Message 4 of 21 , Nov 2, 2002
            Re: [cablevision_digital] Re: Firewire/iLink/IEEE1394 on Sony box Okay, I was going to tell Scott privately but this needs more public distribution; since there’s no HD QAM on the system right now and since, as we know, there’s a bug we’re working on with SD over the firewire—should be fixed in 30 days or so, by the way—the video is actually, in this case, coming out the analog ports.
            Sony TV is recognizing the Firewire, but if you pull the yellow RCA, or S-video wire you’ll lose video right now.
            Sad, but true.
             Wilt
            On 11/2/02 11:26 AM, "marcinb007" <mbrys@...> wrote:

            Scott thanks for quick reply. If I understand correctly, you have
            analog connection in addition to Firewire. Are you certain that the
            video signal goes over Firewire? What will happen if wile you are
            using Line4 you temporarily disconnect analog video cable? Will
            signal remain? In many implementations Firewire provides control
            functionality but audio/video signal is going over the analog. Can
            you try and share the results?

            Martin



            In an effort to keep posts readable, please **trim** any extraneous previous messages/text from your posts before making a reply.  This reduces clutter & makes your post clear & easy to read.  Thank you!

            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            cablevision_digital-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com





            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

          • scottbusy
            Martin, I already tried this when I first hooked up the firewire. Yes, you must have an analog connection line associated with the 1394 for it to work. If I
            Message 5 of 21 , Nov 2, 2002
              Martin,

              I already tried this when I first hooked up the firewire.

              Yes, you must have an analog connection line associated with the
              1394 for it to work. If I either unplug the firewire or the analog
              inputs on this Line 4 the picture goes blank. In order for the
              firewire to play the 1394 and the analog video lines must both be
              connected. I do know the firewire is transmitting the signal
              because if I disconnect the firewire line and tune to Video Line 4
              there is nothing, even though the analog inputs are connected.

              Scott


              --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "marcinb007" <mbrys@h...> wrote:
              > Scott thanks for quick reply. If I understand correctly, you have
              > analog connection in addition to Firewire. Are you certain that
              the
              > video signal goes over Firewire? What will happen if wile you are
              > using Line4 you temporarily disconnect analog video cable? Will
              > signal remain? In many implementations Firewire provides control
              > functionality but audio/video signal is going over the analog. Can
              > you try and share the results?
              >
              > Martin
            • scottbusy
              I can verify what Wilt is saying. You need both the analog and 1394 connected to see anything on this Video Line 4. If I unplug either one the picture goes
              Message 6 of 21 , Nov 2, 2002
                I can verify what Wilt is saying. You need both the analog and
                1394 connected to see anything on this Video Line 4. If I unplug
                either one the picture goes blank. What will happen with the QAM
                signals I obviously cannot tell you. Right now I need both
                connected to see the SD signals on that line.

                Scott


                --- In cablevision_digital@y..., Wilt Hildenbrand <wilth@o...> wrote:
                > Okay, I was going to tell Scott privately but this needs more
                public
                > distribution; since there¹s no HD QAM on the system right now and
                since, as
                > we know, there¹s a bug we¹re working on with SD over the
                firewire‹should be
                > fixed in 30 days or so, by the way‹the video is actually, in this
                case,
                > coming out the analog ports.
                > Sony TV is recognizing the Firewire, but if you pull the yellow
                RCA, or
                > S-video wire you¹ll lose video right now.
                > Sad, but true.
                > Wilt
                > On 11/2/02 11:26 AM, "marcinb007" <mbrys@h...> wrote:
                >
                > > Scott thanks for quick reply. If I understand correctly, you have
                > > analog connection in addition to Firewire. Are you certain that
                the
                > > video signal goes over Firewire? What will happen if wile you are
                > > using Line4 you temporarily disconnect analog video cable? Will
                > > signal remain? In many implementations Firewire provides control
                > > functionality but audio/video signal is going over the analog.
                Can
                > > you try and share the results?
                > >
                > > Martin
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > In an effort to keep posts readable, please **trim** any
                extraneous previous
                > > messages/text from your posts before making a reply. This
                reduces clutter &
                > > makes your post clear & easy to read. Thank you!
                > >
                > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > cablevision_digital-unsubscribe@y...
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                Service
                > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
              • local94engineer
                Scott, Just checked the specs on the Sony XBR800, and found this foot note • (**) Hi-Scan 1080i Display works through analog component video (Y/PB/PR)
                Message 7 of 21 , Nov 2, 2002
                  Scott,
                  Just checked the specs on the Sony XBR800, and found this foot
                  note "• (**) Hi-Scan 1080i Display works through analog component
                  video (Y/PB/PR) connections and DVI-HDTV interface." Would you mind
                  explaining what this means, please.

                  You can see why I get very confused with this.

                  Thanks
                  Peter


                  --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "scottbusy" <sgbusy@o...> wrote:
                  > I can verify what Wilt is saying. You need both the analog and
                  > 1394 connected to see anything on this Video Line 4. If I unplug
                  > either one the picture goes blank. What will happen with the QAM
                  > signals I obviously cannot tell you. Right now I need both
                  > connected to see the SD signals on that line.
                  >
                  > Scott
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In cablevision_digital@y..., Wilt Hildenbrand <wilth@o...>
                  wrote:
                  > > Okay, I was going to tell Scott privately but this needs more
                  > public
                  > > distribution; since there¹s no HD QAM on the system right now and
                  > since, as
                  > > we know, there¹s a bug we¹re working on with SD over the
                  > firewire‹should be
                  > > fixed in 30 days or so, by the way‹the video is actually, in this
                  > case,
                  > > coming out the analog ports.
                  > > Sony TV is recognizing the Firewire, but if you pull the yellow
                  > RCA, or
                  > > S-video wire you¹ll lose video right now.
                  > > Sad, but true.
                  > > Wilt
                  > > On 11/2/02 11:26 AM, "marcinb007" <mbrys@h...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > Scott thanks for quick reply. If I understand correctly, you
                  have
                  > > > analog connection in addition to Firewire. Are you certain that
                  > the
                  > > > video signal goes over Firewire? What will happen if wile you
                  are
                  > > > using Line4 you temporarily disconnect analog video cable? Will
                  > > > signal remain? In many implementations Firewire provides control
                  > > > functionality but audio/video signal is going over the analog.
                  > Can
                  > > > you try and share the results?
                  > > >
                  > > > Martin
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > In an effort to keep posts readable, please **trim** any
                  > extraneous previous
                  > > > messages/text from your posts before making a reply. This
                  > reduces clutter &
                  > > > makes your post clear & easy to read. Thank you!
                  > > >
                  > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > > > cablevision_digital-unsubscribe@y...
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  > Service
                  > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                • steevo
                  ... Yes..but the video signal is not being carried thru the firewire port so you are NOT seeing any better picture than you are with only an S-Video
                  Message 8 of 21 , Nov 2, 2002
                    --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "scottbusy" <sgbusy@o...> wrote:
                    > I can verify what Wilt is saying. You need both the analog and
                    > 1394 connected to see anything on this Video Line 4. If I unplug
                    > either one the picture goes blank. What will happen with the QAM
                    > signals I obviously cannot tell you. Right now I need both
                    > connected to see the SD signals on that line.
                    >
                    > Scott
                    >
                    Yes..but the video signal is not being carried thru the firewire
                    port so you are NOT seeing any better picture than you are with only
                    an S-Video connection. The picture goes blank because of the setup
                    option associating the firewire port with video 4.
                    When it finally does work there should be a difference IF the
                    channels you get are at resolutions greater than 480i.
                    The season premeire of 24 was broadcast by FOX in digital wide
                    screen, which I assume means 480p not HDTV, but Cablevision didn't
                    carry the signal.
                  • marcinb007
                    Thanks Wilt for clarifying this, I recall the 5C copy protection bug issue. I was under impression that this was going to be corrected a while ago. Hopefully
                    Message 9 of 21 , Nov 2, 2002
                      Thanks Wilt for clarifying this, I recall the 5C copy protection bug
                      issue. I was under impression that this was going to be corrected a
                      while ago. Hopefully correction will be available shortly.
                    • scottbusy
                      Yes, I just proved this by disconnecting the analog inputs one at a time between video and sound. If you pull the video line the video goes off and same for
                      Message 10 of 21 , Nov 2, 2002
                        Yes, I just proved this by disconnecting the analog inputs one at a
                        time between video and sound. If you pull the video line the video
                        goes off and same for sound. I think you are right that the reason
                        it needs the 1394 port plugged in because I associated this Video 4
                        with the 1394. Hopefully, this will be worked out when the bug is
                        fixed. I would love to see if the QAM HDTV signals play on the
                        firewire line.

                        Scott


                        --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "steevo" <steevo@w...> wrote:
                        > --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "scottbusy" <sgbusy@o...> wrote:
                        > > I can verify what Wilt is saying. You need both the analog and
                        > > 1394 connected to see anything on this Video Line 4. If I
                        unplug
                        > > either one the picture goes blank. What will happen with the
                        QAM
                        > > signals I obviously cannot tell you. Right now I need both
                        > > connected to see the SD signals on that line.
                        > >
                        > > Scott
                        > >
                        > Yes..but the video signal is not being carried thru the firewire
                        > port so you are NOT seeing any better picture than you are with
                        only
                        > an S-Video connection. The picture goes blank because of the setup
                        > option associating the firewire port with video 4.
                        > When it finally does work there should be a difference IF the
                        > channels you get are at resolutions greater than 480i.
                        > The season premeire of 24 was broadcast by FOX in digital wide
                        > screen, which I assume means 480p not HDTV, but Cablevision didn't
                        > carry the signal.
                      • steevo
                        ... mind ... It means exactly what it says...You must be using the componenet inputs or DVI to display a 1080i(1080 lines interlaced) picture. Any lesser
                        Message 11 of 21 , Nov 2, 2002
                          --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "local94engineer" <pgorry@o...>
                          wrote:
                          > Scott,
                          > Just checked the specs on the Sony XBR800, and found this foot
                          > note "• (**) Hi-Scan 1080i Display works through analog component
                          > video (Y/PB/PR) connections and DVI-HDTV interface." Would you
                          mind
                          > explaining what this means, please.
                          >
                          > You can see why I get very confused with this.
                          >
                          > Thanks
                          > Peter
                          >
                          >
                          It means exactly what it says...You must be using the componenet
                          inputs or DVI to display a 1080i(1080 lines interlaced) picture. Any
                          lesser connection..s-video for example..will not pass the signal at
                          full resolution.
                          S-video limits you to 480i. DVD is 480p(progressive scan).
                          Most hi end sets use line doublers to upconvert the signals to 480p
                          regardless with varying results.
                        • scottbusy
                          Peter, What this means is very similar to what I said before. The XBR800 is an HDTV ready set. Which means the decoder is not built in. It can act as a
                          Message 12 of 21 , Nov 2, 2002
                            Peter,

                            What this means is very similar to what I said before. The XBR800
                            is an HDTV ready set. Which means the decoder is not built in. It
                            can act as a monitor and display 1080i (HD) signals when an HD
                            decoder is hooked up to it. It can connect one of two ways. Through
                            component which is an analog hookup and through DVI. That is why
                            the Sony iO box will not work. It is not a decoder it simply passes
                            the HD signal through the 1394 port. This set has no 1394 (also
                            called i-link and firewire) so it cannot handle the signal from the
                            Sony iO box. The S-A iO box will have component and possibly DVI
                            and firewire so the set could be hooked up to this iO S-A box with
                            component or DVI. The S-A iO box is a decoder, the Sony iO box is
                            not. The XBR800 also has no 1394 input so it cannot connect to the
                            Sony SA box. If you want this XBR800 you will need the S-A box.

                            Scott


                            --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "local94engineer" <pgorry@o...>
                            wrote:
                            > Scott,
                            > Just checked the specs on the Sony XBR800, and found this foot
                            > note "• (**) Hi-Scan 1080i Display works through analog component
                            > video (Y/PB/PR) connections and DVI-HDTV interface." Would you
                            mind
                            > explaining what this means, please.
                            >
                            > You can see why I get very confused with this.
                            >
                            > Thanks
                            > Peter
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "scottbusy" <sgbusy@o...> wrote:
                            > > I can verify what Wilt is saying. You need both the analog and
                            > > 1394 connected to see anything on this Video Line 4. If I
                            unplug
                            > > either one the picture goes blank. What will happen with the
                            QAM
                            > > signals I obviously cannot tell you. Right now I need both
                            > > connected to see the SD signals on that line.
                            > >
                            > > Scott
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In cablevision_digital@y..., Wilt Hildenbrand <wilth@o...>
                            > wrote:
                            > > > Okay, I was going to tell Scott privately but this needs more
                            > > public
                            > > > distribution; since there¹s no HD QAM on the system right now
                            and
                            > > since, as
                            > > > we know, there¹s a bug we¹re working on with SD over the
                            > > firewire‹should be
                            > > > fixed in 30 days or so, by the way‹the video is actually, in
                            this
                            > > case,
                            > > > coming out the analog ports.
                            > > > Sony TV is recognizing the Firewire, but if you pull the
                            yellow
                            > > RCA, or
                            > > > S-video wire you¹ll lose video right now.
                            > > > Sad, but true.
                            > > > Wilt
                            > > > On 11/2/02 11:26 AM, "marcinb007" <mbrys@h...> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > > Scott thanks for quick reply. If I understand correctly, you
                            > have
                            > > > > analog connection in addition to Firewire. Are you certain
                            that
                            > > the
                            > > > > video signal goes over Firewire? What will happen if wile
                            you
                            > are
                            > > > > using Line4 you temporarily disconnect analog video cable?
                            Will
                            > > > > signal remain? In many implementations Firewire provides
                            control
                            > > > > functionality but audio/video signal is going over the
                            analog.
                            > > Can
                            > > > > you try and share the results?
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Martin
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > In an effort to keep posts readable, please **trim** any
                            > > extraneous previous
                            > > > > messages/text from your posts before making a reply. This
                            > > reduces clutter &
                            > > > > makes your post clear & easy to read. Thank you!
                            > > > >
                            > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > > > > cablevision_digital-unsubscribe@y...
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                            > > Service
                            > > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                          • local94engineer
                            Steevo, I gues you can put me in the category as a true newbie or HDTV for dummies, because with all the different transpor methods DVI/Firewire/iLink/IEEE1394
                            Message 13 of 21 , Nov 2, 2002
                              Steevo, I gues you can put me in the category as a true newbie or
                              HDTV for dummies, because with all the different transpor methods
                              DVI/Firewire/iLink/IEEE1394 is it any wonder that people get
                              confused, because I am.

                              I am sorry to say that I am more confused now than I was this
                              morning, I had assumed that the iLind port on the Sony box would just
                              plug into the DVI port on the Sony TV. Then because CV was not using
                              pass/thru, that the Sony box was doing the recoding and outputting to
                              iLink port, that there would be no extra device required.

                              I can see this being a very confusing issue for the regular (Joe) who
                              may be plamming on buying/upgrading to
                              HDTV,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,lol,,,,,,,, like me,,,,,,,,,,,

                              Peter


                              --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "steevo" <steevo@w...> wrote:
                              > --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "local94engineer" <pgorry@o...>
                              > wrote:
                              > > Scott,
                              > > Just checked the specs on the Sony XBR800, and found this foot
                              > > note "• (**) Hi-Scan 1080i Display works through analog component
                              > > video (Y/PB/PR) connections and DVI-HDTV interface." Would you
                              > mind
                              > > explaining what this means, please.
                              > >
                              > > You can see why I get very confused with this.
                              > >
                              > > Thanks
                              > > Peter
                              > >
                              > >
                              > It means exactly what it says...You must be using the componenet
                              > inputs or DVI to display a 1080i(1080 lines interlaced) picture.
                              Any
                              > lesser connection..s-video for example..will not pass the signal at
                              > full resolution.
                              > S-video limits you to 480i. DVD is 480p(progressive scan).
                              > Most hi end sets use line doublers to upconvert the signals to 480p
                              > regardless with varying results.
                            • scottbusy
                              Peter, Let me take another shot at simplifying this for you. There are three types of HDTV output and corresponding inputs in HDTV s. a. Component b. 1394
                              Message 14 of 21 , Nov 2, 2002
                                Peter,

                                Let me take another shot at simplifying this for you.

                                There are three types of HDTV output and corresponding inputs in
                                HDTV's.
                                a. Component
                                b. 1394 (also called firewire and i-link)
                                c. DVI

                                Forgetting about copyright protection for now, you can hook up the
                                cable box to the set using anyone of the three above hookups.
                                However, you must have one of the three output types above from your
                                cable box that acorresponding input in your HDTV. All HDTV sets do
                                not have these inputs. The XBR2 has component and 1394. The
                                XBR800 has component and DVI. The Sony iO box has 1394 only for
                                HD. The S-A iO box will have component (and maybe DVI and 1394).
                                So you must have either an HDTV that has 1394 input to use the Sony
                                iO box or an HDTV with component (which all HDTV's have) to use the
                                S-A box. In other words, you have to have corresponding out from
                                your cable box with your corresponding input to your HDTV. That is
                                why the Sony box will only work with sets that have 1394 input, and
                                the S-A box will work with all HDTV sets because it has component
                                output.

                                I really cannot explain it in any simpler terms. :-)

                                Scott




                                --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "local94engineer" <pgorry@o...>
                                wrote:
                                > Steevo, I gues you can put me in the category as a true newbie or
                                > HDTV for dummies, because with all the different transpor methods
                                > DVI/Firewire/iLink/IEEE1394 is it any wonder that people get
                                > confused, because I am.
                                >
                                > I am sorry to say that I am more confused now than I was this
                                > morning, I had assumed that the iLind port on the Sony box would
                                just
                                > plug into the DVI port on the Sony TV. Then because CV was not
                                using
                                > pass/thru, that the Sony box was doing the recoding and outputting
                                to
                                > iLink port, that there would be no extra device required.
                                >
                                > I can see this being a very confusing issue for the regular (Joe)
                                who
                                > may be plamming on buying/upgrading to
                                > HDTV,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,lol,,,,,,,, like me,,,,,,,,,,,
                                >
                                > Peter
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "steevo" <steevo@w...> wrote:
                                > > --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "local94engineer" <pgorry@o...>
                                > > wrote:
                                > > > Scott,
                                > > > Just checked the specs on the Sony XBR800, and found this foot
                                > > > note "• (**) Hi-Scan 1080i Display works through analog
                                component
                                > > > video (Y/PB/PR) connections and DVI-HDTV interface." Would you
                                > > mind
                                > > > explaining what this means, please.
                                > > >
                                > > > You can see why I get very confused with this.
                                > > >
                                > > > Thanks
                                > > > Peter
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > It means exactly what it says...You must be using the componenet
                                > > inputs or DVI to display a 1080i(1080 lines interlaced) picture.
                                > Any
                                > > lesser connection..s-video for example..will not pass the signal
                                at
                                > > full resolution.
                                > > S-video limits you to 480i. DVD is 480p(progressive scan).
                                > > Most hi end sets use line doublers to upconvert the signals to
                                480p
                                > > regardless with varying results.
                              • steevo
                                ... Pete, I wouldn t sweat it! I was going through the same thing over a year ago. I decided to just go ahead and buy. Had I waited a year, I would probably
                                Message 15 of 21 , Nov 2, 2002
                                  --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "local94engineer" <pgorry@o...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > Steevo, I gues you can put me in the category as a true newbie

                                  Pete, I wouldn't sweat it! I was going through the same thing over
                                  a year ago. I decided to just go ahead and buy. Had I waited a year,
                                  I would probably have gotten a set with a DVI connector..but I
                                  didn't wait. Instead, I have been enjoying a beautiful Toshiba
                                  Cinema Series 50" 16x9 HDTV. Enjoying it for over a year! And it
                                  will probably be another year before standards are set in cement and
                                  if, for arguments sake, its DVI, at least another year before that
                                  would be the only method used by the providers.
                                  If you can afford it now, make a choice now and go for it. Even at
                                  480p, a good DVD in DTS surround is quite an impressive experience.
                                • local94engineer
                                  Scott, your a star, both for your information and patients. r pain, cause thats exactlly where I am. I guess I ll research a little more and also wait to see
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Nov 2, 2002
                                    Scott, your a star, both for your information and patients.

                                    r pain, cause thats exactlly where I am. I guess I'll research a
                                    little more and also wait to see what the final CV out come will be.

                                    Regards to you both

                                    Peter

                                    --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "steevo" <steevo@w...> wrote:
                                    > --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "local94engineer" <pgorry@o...>
                                    > wrote:
                                    > > Steevo, I gues you can put me in the category as a true newbie
                                    >
                                    > Pete, I wouldn't sweat it! I was going through the same thing
                                    over
                                    > a year ago. I decided to just go ahead and buy. Had I waited a
                                    year,
                                    > I would probably have gotten a set with a DVI connector..but I
                                    > didn't wait. Instead, I have been enjoying a beautiful Toshiba
                                    > Cinema Series 50" 16x9 HDTV. Enjoying it for over a year! And it
                                    > will probably be another year before standards are set in cement
                                    and
                                    > if, for arguments sake, its DVI, at least another year before that
                                    > would be the only method used by the providers.
                                    > If you can afford it now, make a choice now and go for it. Even at
                                    > 480p, a good DVD in DTS surround is quite an impressive experience.
                                  • scottbusy
                                    Peter, I would definitely recommend waiting to see how the Cablevision thing sorts out. As I told you before I have one HDTV and are looking to buy another.
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Nov 2, 2002
                                      Peter,

                                      I would definitely recommend waiting to see how the Cablevision
                                      thing sorts out. As I told you before I have one HDTV and are
                                      looking to buy another. I am also being patient to try to see how
                                      this Cablevision box and copyright standard thing sorts out. Buying
                                      the XBR2 will probably be more than you need. The XBR800 which is
                                      much cheaper will probably suffice.

                                      I think if we are patient it will work out well. HDTV is the
                                      greatest viewing pleasure one can get from watching TV.

                                      If you want more information go to this site:

                                      http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/

                                      They have several HDTV subcategories. It is the most informative
                                      HDTV sight I have found. You can ask questions and people will
                                      always respond and help you. In your case you will be particularly
                                      interested in the "HDTV Hardware" section.

                                      Scott


                                      --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "local94engineer" <pgorry@o...>
                                      wrote:
                                      > Scott, your a star, both for your information and patients.
                                      >
                                      > r pain, cause thats exactlly where I am. I guess I'll research a
                                      > little more and also wait to see what the final CV out come will
                                      be.
                                      >
                                      > Regards to you both
                                      >
                                      > Peter
                                      >
                                      > --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "steevo" <steevo@w...> wrote:
                                      > > --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "local94engineer" <pgorry@o...>
                                      > > wrote:
                                      > > > Steevo, I gues you can put me in the category as a true newbie
                                      > >
                                      > > Pete, I wouldn't sweat it! I was going through the same thing
                                      > over
                                      > > a year ago. I decided to just go ahead and buy. Had I waited a
                                      > year,
                                      > > I would probably have gotten a set with a DVI connector..but I
                                      > > didn't wait. Instead, I have been enjoying a beautiful Toshiba
                                      > > Cinema Series 50" 16x9 HDTV. Enjoying it for over a year! And it
                                      > > will probably be another year before standards are set in cement
                                      > and
                                      > > if, for arguments sake, its DVI, at least another year before
                                      that
                                      > > would be the only method used by the providers.
                                      > > If you can afford it now, make a choice now and go for it. Even
                                      at
                                      > > 480p, a good DVD in DTS surround is quite an impressive
                                      experience.
                                    • J. S. Greenfield
                                      ... Peter, Here, hopefully this will help to put things in context and make them clearer.... Digital television is broadcast in a compressed format. The
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Nov 2, 2002
                                        > Steevo, I gues you can put me in the category as a true newbie or
                                        > HDTV for dummies, because with all the different transpor methods
                                        > DVI/Firewire/iLink/IEEE1394 is it any wonder that people get
                                        > confused, because I am.
                                        >
                                        > I am sorry to say that I am more confused now than I was this
                                        > morning, I had assumed that the iLind port on the Sony box would just
                                        > plug into the DVI port on the Sony TV. Then because CV was not using
                                        > pass/thru, that the Sony box was doing the recoding and outputting to
                                        > iLink port, that there would be no extra device required.
                                        >
                                        > I can see this being a very confusing issue for the regular (Joe) who
                                        > may be plamming on buying/upgrading to
                                        > HDTV,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,lol,,,,,,,, like me,,,,,,,,,,,
                                        >
                                        > Peter


                                        Peter,

                                        Here, hopefully this will help to put things in context and make them
                                        clearer....

                                        Digital television is broadcast in a compressed format. The compression
                                        algorithm is called MPEG-2. The MPEG-2 data is then broken into packets and
                                        turned into a serial data stream, in the form of what's called an MPEG-2
                                        transport stream. To tranmsit this to consumer televisions (i.e., to
                                        broadcast over a cable plant, or over the airwaves) the digital data stream
                                        has to be RF-modulated into a suitable analog form. Some typical modulation
                                        methods are 8VSB (used for over-the-air broadcasts) and QAM (used for cable
                                        broadcasts). The details of these modulation schemes aren't important, but
                                        it's useful to know their names, and to remember that the standard used for
                                        over-the-air broadcasts is different from that used for cable broadcasts.

                                        So if you were to look at cable headend, or at a local television broadcast
                                        station, the chain you would see is something like the following:

                                        -------------------
                                        |Analog video source|
                                        -------------------
                                        |
                                        |
                                        V
                                        -------------------
                                        | MPEG-2 Encoder |
                                        -------------------
                                        |
                                        | MPEG-2 compressed content
                                        V
                                        -------------------
                                        | multiplexer |
                                        -------------------
                                        |
                                        | MPEG-2 transport stream
                                        V
                                        -----------------------
                                        | 8VSB or QAM modulator |
                                        -----------------------
                                        |
                                        | 8VSB- or QAM-modulated signal
                                        V
                                        -------------------
                                        | upconverter |
                                        -------------------
                                        |
                                        | 8VSB or QAM-modulated signal at a
                                        | specific channel/frequency for broadcast
                                        | (e.g., channel 68)
                                        V



                                        In consumer equipment (TVs, set top boxes, etc.), you essentialy have the
                                        inverse chain:


                                        |
                                        | 8VSB or QAM-modulated signal at a specific
                                        | channel/frequency from antenna or cable
                                        |
                                        V
                                        -------------------
                                        | RF tuner |
                                        -------------------
                                        |
                                        | 8VSB- or QAM-modulated signal
                                        V
                                        -------------------------
                                        | 8VSB or QAM demodulator |
                                        -------------------------
                                        |
                                        | MPEG-2 transport stream
                                        V
                                        -------------------
                                        | demultiplexer |----> encoded outputs (e.g., 1394)
                                        -------------------
                                        |
                                        | MPEG-2 compressed content
                                        V
                                        -------------------
                                        | MPEG-2 Decoder |
                                        -------------------
                                        |
                                        | decoded outputs (e.g., S-video, component, DVI)
                                        V



                                        An HDTV already includes the entire over-the-air tuner, demodulator (8VSB)
                                        and an HD-capable MPEG-2 decoder. (Not all MPEG-2 decoders are HD capable.
                                        Since HD carries a much larger picture than SD, decoding HD requires a lot
                                        more processing power in the decoder, and a lot more memory to decompress
                                        the signal into.)

                                        Some HDTVs, such as those sold by Mitsubishi, and some Sony models, will
                                        take 1394 inputs, in addition to broadcast signals. They just take the
                                        MPEG-2 data in over 1394, and then decode the signal using the MPEG-2
                                        decoder already built into the TV.

                                        An HD-ready TV has no tuner/demodulator/decoder chain (for digital). So it
                                        can only display decoded/decompressed data (component outputs, DVI) coming
                                        from an external tuner/decoder device.



                                        So the various HD interfaces are:

                                        Firewire/iLink/1394 (these are identical: the first two are trademarks
                                        (Apple/Sony) for the IEEE 1394 interface standard) -- This is an interface
                                        for encoded/compressed data, only. It does not have enough bandwidth to
                                        carry decoded/decompressed audio and video data. When it comes to TVs, you
                                        will only find 1394 inputs on HDTVs with tuner/decoders already built in.

                                        Component -- traditional analog outputs, supported by (essentially all)
                                        existing HD televisions, whether they have internal tuner/decoders, or not.

                                        DVI -- basically a digitized (but *not* encoded/compressed) version of
                                        analog component outputs.



                                        Once upon a time, the agreed upon "standard" for delivering HDTV via cable
                                        was to use 1394 passthrough. i.e., the cable box would tune, demodulate and
                                        demultiplex the desired channel, and then pass the actual content through
                                        1394 to a decoder in the television. That's why the Sony box was built with
                                        1394 ports for HD.

                                        But as immature "standards" are prone to do, things changed. Presently, the
                                        direction for most service providers (and TV manufacturers, etc.) seems to
                                        be DVI and good old component outputs. (And of course, there are a lot of
                                        existing HD sets that have only component inputs.) So the new "standard"
                                        for delivering HDTV via cable is to have a cable box that actually decodes
                                        the HD content, and then has decoded/decompressed outputs (e.g., component
                                        and/or DVI).

                                        Naturally, a cable box won't have an over-the-air (8VSB) demodulator in it.
                                        That's why Wilt indicated that if you want to tune over-the-air HD signals,
                                        in addition to HD carried on the cable, you would need to get a separate
                                        over-the-air HD tuner box (or have an HDTV set with it built in already).


                                        Jonathan
                                      • Mark Natelson
                                        As usual an interesting thread. Here s my two cents, (I ll preface it by saying I have the XBR800 and aside from whatever cable box I will need to act as the
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Nov 3, 2002
                                          As usual an interesting thread. Here's my two cents, (I'll preface it by
                                          saying I have the XBR800 and aside from whatever cable box I will need to
                                          act as the HD decoder I'll assume it's the S-A) the one thing no one has
                                          brought up is the topic of conversion cables. I can only imagine that based
                                          on the amount of conversion type cables available in the PC world (yes some
                                          are better that others) that it is reasonable to think someone will or
                                          already has come up with a 1394 to DVI, or component to 1394 or DVI. There
                                          are a number of permutations and I haven't worked them all out but this
                                          would seem to be a nice little business. Anyone with a little capital out
                                          there? This would solve all the problems assuming there was no signal
                                          degradation.

                                          As far as IO goes, it looks like in time the HDTV will be worked out and
                                          that if you needed to swap a box to get the it to be the HDTV decoder I
                                          sure there will be a way to make this happen.







                                          ______________________________________________________________________

                                          The information contained in this communication is intended solely for the
                                          use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and others
                                          authorized to receive it. It may contain confidential or legally
                                          privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient you are
                                          hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking any
                                          action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly
                                          prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in
                                          error, please notify us immediately by responding to this email and then
                                          delete it from your system. Ernst & Young is neither liable for the proper
                                          and complete transmission of the information contained in this
                                          communication nor for any delay in its receipt.
                                        • shady_bimmer
                                          It might also be worth pointing out that the XBR2 series are 16:9 format (Widescreen) while the XBR800 series is 4:3 format ( normal tv dimensions) If you
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Nov 4, 2002
                                            It might also be worth pointing out that the XBR2 series are 16:9
                                            format (Widescreen) while the XBR800 series is 4:3 format ("normal"
                                            tv dimensions)

                                            If you watch widescreen format on the XBR800 you'll have "black bars"
                                            on top and bottom of the screen.

                                            If you watch standard programming on the XBR2 you can either
                                            have "black bars" on the sides or s-t-r-e-t-c-h the picture
                                            horizontally to fill the screen (makes picture distorted).


                                            --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "scottbusy" <sgbusy@o...> wrote:
                                            > Peter,
                                            >
                                            > I would definitely recommend waiting to see how the Cablevision
                                            > thing sorts out. As I told you before I have one HDTV and are
                                            > looking to buy another. I am also being patient to try to see how
                                            > this Cablevision box and copyright standard thing sorts out.
                                            Buying
                                            > the XBR2 will probably be more than you need. The XBR800 which is
                                            > much cheaper will probably suffice.
                                            >
                                            > I think if we are patient it will work out well. HDTV is the
                                            > greatest viewing pleasure one can get from watching TV.
                                            >
                                            > If you want more information go to this site:
                                            >
                                            > http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/
                                            >
                                            > They have several HDTV subcategories. It is the most informative
                                            > HDTV sight I have found. You can ask questions and people will
                                            > always respond and help you. In your case you will be particularly
                                            > interested in the "HDTV Hardware" section.
                                            >
                                            > Scott
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • scottbusy
                                            This is just an opinion from someone who has the XBR2. If you set the TV to 4:3 (normal) it really isn t blank bars that show up. The TV just uses the 4:3
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Nov 4, 2002
                                              This is just an opinion from someone who has the XBR2. If you set
                                              the TV to 4:3 (normal) it really isn't blank bars that show up. The
                                              TV just uses the 4:3 part of the screen and just has blank screen on
                                              the sides. Once you get used to it you don't even notice the look.
                                              It just looks like a regular 4:3 screen centered in the middle of
                                              the widescreen.

                                              As to the stretching. If you use the 16:9 screen in the "Wide Zoom"
                                              mode it looks fine. It is much clearer than the regular stretched
                                              picture. I use the wide zoom for sports and it looks just fine.
                                              Although no TV programming can look as good as full 1080i,
                                              widescreen HDTV program.

                                              I can't wait for more HDTV channels from Cablevision. :-)

                                              Scott


                                              --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "shady_bimmer" <shady_bimmer@w...>
                                              wrote:
                                              > It might also be worth pointing out that the XBR2 series are 16:9
                                              > format (Widescreen) while the XBR800 series is 4:3 format
                                              ("normal"
                                              > tv dimensions)
                                              >
                                              > If you watch widescreen format on the XBR800 you'll have "black
                                              bars"
                                              > on top and bottom of the screen.
                                              >
                                              > If you watch standard programming on the XBR2 you can either
                                              > have "black bars" on the sides or s-t-r-e-t-c-h the picture
                                              > horizontally to fill the screen (makes picture distorted).
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > --- In cablevision_digital@y..., "scottbusy" <sgbusy@o...> wrote:
                                              > > Peter,
                                              > >
                                              > > I would definitely recommend waiting to see how the Cablevision
                                              > > thing sorts out. As I told you before I have one HDTV and are
                                              > > looking to buy another. I am also being patient to try to see
                                              how
                                              > > this Cablevision box and copyright standard thing sorts out.
                                              > Buying
                                              > > the XBR2 will probably be more than you need. The XBR800 which
                                              is
                                              > > much cheaper will probably suffice.
                                              > >
                                              > > I think if we are patient it will work out well. HDTV is the
                                              > > greatest viewing pleasure one can get from watching TV.
                                              > >
                                              > > If you want more information go to this site:
                                              > >
                                              > > http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/
                                              > >
                                              > > They have several HDTV subcategories. It is the most
                                              informative
                                              > > HDTV sight I have found. You can ask questions and people will
                                              > > always respond and help you. In your case you will be
                                              particularly
                                              > > interested in the "HDTV Hardware" section.
                                              > >
                                              > > Scott
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.