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Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Re: hiring a guide

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  • Philip Semanchuk
    ... Amy, I ve gone hunting for lost villages before; it s fun! Aside from a guide, you can increase your chances of success by bringing a modern topo map along
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 1, 2009
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      On Jun 1, 2009, at 2:05 AM, aburock wrote:

      > Hi Debbie! We are renting a car (with GPS) but as you suspected,
      > Jawornik was burned in 1947. We are hoping to have a guide help us
      > find points of interest in all three villages, though.

      Amy,
      I've gone hunting for lost villages before; it's fun! Aside from a
      guide, you can increase your chances of success by bringing a modern
      topo map along with some old maps (like the ones at http://semanchuk.com/gen/maps/spezialkarte.html
      and at http://www.mapywig.org/).

      A GPS would be great, too. It's easy to get disoriented without
      landmarks.

      Last but not least you'll need good boots and the other kinds of
      things one typically needs for tromping through the woods. If a
      village has truly been abandoned for 60 years, the village itself and
      the access to it are going to be well on their way back to nature. The
      cemeteries -- often of great interest to genealogists -- can be the
      hardest things to find. They're usually a little apart from the main
      village and tend to get overgrown quickly.

      Good luck!

      Philip


      > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, Debbie Greenlee
      > <daveg@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Amy,
      >>
      >> You don't necessarily need a guide if you rent a car and can read a
      >> map. Villages have their names on signs as you enter them. They are
      >> very standard signs too. Come to think of it, I don't think Rzepedz
      >> had a sign! Go to my web site: http://www.polilshfamily.com and
      >> click on Komancza in the left column. Scroll through the thumbnails
      >> to
      >> the 14th picture and click. That's what a village sign would look
      >> like.
      >>
      >> I assume the Lipowiec you're interested in is in the gmina of Dukla
      >> southwest of the Bukowsko area. Is that correct?
      >>
      >> There might be a problem with Jawornik though. I drove from Koman~cza
      >> to Rzepedz (and back through) last April (2008) and I know there
      >> wasn't a village sign for Jawornik. I don't know it's history but I'm
      >> guessing it was a Lemko village so you might need help here
      >> especially
      >> if you want to locate the cemetery and location of the cerkiew.
      >>
      >> You will probably need to have some information BEFORE you go even if
      >> you hire someone to guide you to these places as they may not even
      >> know the original location of Jawornik, for example.
      >>
      >>
      >> Let's start with:
      >> Are you renting a car?
      >> Do you have a pre-WWII map of the area?
      >>
      >> Debbie
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> aburock wrote:
      >>> Hi group -- I am looking into a finding an English- and Polish-
      >>> speaking
      >> guide to help me find Lipowiec, Rzepedz and the former village of
      >> Jawornik
      >> near Sanok in July. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks! Amy
      >>
      >
      >
    • Gail Philbin
      YES! I have booked a tour of the Sanok area with a couple of schoolteachers (Lemkos!) who live in Gorlice. They will take you around in their van and take
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 1, 2009
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        YES! I have booked a tour of the Sanok area with a couple of
        schoolteachers (Lemkos!) who live in Gorlice. They will take you
        around in their van and take you to archives and anywhere else you
        like for a fee. They seem very very nice and accommodating and gave
        me a reference in Pennsylvania who raved about them. Their names are
        Halina and Andrezj Maleccy. Their website is www.lemkotour.com


        On May 31, 2009, at 10:43 AM, aburock wrote:

        >
        >
        > Hi group -- I am looking into a finding an English- and Polish-
        > speaking guide to help me find Lipowiec, Rzepedz and the former
        > village of Jawornik near Sanok in July. Does anyone have any
        > suggestions? Thanks! Amy
        >
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Debbie Greenlee
        Amy, I see we ve jumped ahead several steps so that s good. For some reason I find it very difficult to get my north, south, east and west bearings when in the
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 1, 2009
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          Amy,

          I see we've jumped ahead several steps so that's good.

          For some reason I find it very difficult to get my north, south, east
          and west bearings when in the Bukowsko area, and I've been there
          numerous times. I think it's due in part to the fact that the roads
          are so twisty-turny.

          Philip gave you a great web site link. The map you want is in "Lesko."
          http://www.mapywig.org/m/wig100k/P51_S34_LESKO.jpg

          Once the Lesko map pops-up and then scales down, click on the little
          symbol which will appear at the bottom right corner when you move your
          mouse around that area. The map will now enlarge. At the top scroll to
          the right until you see the number 04. Scroll down one "box" and
          you'll see Bukowsko. This might be the best place to start. Notice all
          the little buildings to the left of the word Bukowsko. In between the
          buildings is a "major" road; modern road #889.

          RZEPEDZ:

          Follow the main road, #889, south past Wola Piotrowa and Karliko~w and
          then east past Pl~onna and Kulaszne. You'll come to a fork in the
          road. This will be road #892. Turn right and go south again (following
          these roads won't be difficult if you don't turn off them) past
          Szczawne. At the next crossroads, turn right to go to Rzepedz. Don't
          hesitate to drive up the side roads in this village even if you think
          they aren't roads. ;)

          The cemetery is behind the cerkiew. It's not all that large so you
          might consider digitally photographing all the headstones for
          transcription and placement on Poland Gen Web (see their Tombstone
          Transcription project) or on Philip's Bukowsko Triangle web site.
          http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~polwgw/polandarchives.html
          http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/
          I know at least one other person on the BT list who'd like to see
          these headstones.

          JAWORNIK:
          Don't expect there to be a small road between Rzepedz and Jawornik.
          There might have been a footpath 60 years ago but it's certainly gone now.

          Go back to the "main road" (#892 on modern maps) you took from
          Szczawne and turn right. Modern maps show Jawornik on the left side of
          road #892 (as you are driving south) but the old map shows it to be
          on the right side of road #892 as you're driving south and this is
          probably correct. Look for signs of a road on the west side of #892.
          If you come to a village sign for Koman~cza, then you've missed
          Jawornik. If you can't find an in-road, don't hesitate (and I'm sure
          your guides will do this) to ask locals for help, especially, older
          residents.

          Consider going into any government offices in these villages and
          visiting with the priests even if they are Roman Catholic. Don't
          hesitate to ask questions. Ask everyone you meet if there is a
          published history of the villages and/or the parishes and buy them.

          BTW Study the map and print it off. You might even put it in a plastic
          page cover.

          Also, this could easily turn into a two or three day expedition. It
          takes about 30 - 45 minutes to get from Sanok to Szczawne.

          Lipowiec should probably be a separate trip from the above villages.

          A good day off would be spent at the skansen in Sanok. It has
          representations of of area villages. This would take at least 3 hours.
          Check out the souvenir/book shop here and don't hesitate to buy books
          in Polish if you think they have info about your villages. You might
          even be able to buy older maps of your areas. I bought the only two
          Lemko dolls I've ever seen, at this skansen.

          Philip is right about taking boots or galoshes. Even if it's not
          raining you'll need them to visit cemeteries and tramp through
          Jawornik. There is a garden store at the "mall" in Bukowsko (three
          story building across from the gmina offices and church). YOu can buy
          a little hand rake to take with to Jawornik. Bring garden gloves from
          home and a rag or two. Take some bottled water (filled from the tap)
          along when you visit the cemeteries. Wetting the headstones sometimes
          helps read them. Paper and the side of a crayon can be used to make
          rubbings of almost invisible headstones.

          I just had a thought. One that I'd contemplated years ago. Consider
          having your guides contact someone (?) ahead of time in Komancza or
          Rzepedz to mow the location of the cemetery in Jawornik. You will have
          to pay for this but it would help you considerably. The grass/weeds
          could easily be shoulder height I've walked through the Lemko cemetery
          in Wola Piotrowa and I know more (than the two visible ones)
          headstones could be found if the tall grass was cut down.

          Keep us posted as to your progress and make sure to tell us about your
          trip when you get back.

          Debbie

          aburock wrote:
          > Hi Debbie! We are renting a car (with GPS) but as you suspected, Jawornik was burned in 1947. We are hoping to have a guide help us find points of interest in all three villages, though. Thanks! Amy
          >
          > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, Debbie Greenlee <daveg@...> wrote:
          >> Amy,
          >>
          >> You don't necessarily need a guide if you rent a car and can read a
          >> map. Villages have their names on signs as you enter them. They are
          >> very standard signs too. Come to think of it, I don't think Rzepedz
          >> had a sign! Go to my web site: http://www.polilshfamily.com and
          >> click on Komancza in the left column. Scroll through the thumbnails to
          >> the 14th picture and click. That's what a village sign would look like.
          >>
          >> I assume the Lipowiec you're interested in is in the gmina of Dukla
          >> southwest of the Bukowsko area. Is that correct?
          >>
          >> There might be a problem with Jawornik though. I drove from Koman~cza
          >> to Rzepedz (and back through) last April (2008) and I know there
          >> wasn't a village sign for Jawornik. I don't know it's history but I'm
          >> guessing it was a Lemko village so you might need help here especially
          >> if you want to locate the cemetery and location of the cerkiew.
          >>
          >> You will probably need to have some information BEFORE you go even if
          >> you hire someone to guide you to these places as they may not even
          >> know the original location of Jawornik, for example.
          >>
          >>
          >> Let's start with:
          >> Are you renting a car?
          >> Do you have a pre-WWII map of the area?
          >>
          >> Debbie
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> aburock wrote:
          >>> Hi group -- I am looking into a finding an English- and Polish-speaking
          >> guide to help me find Lipowiec, Rzepedz and the former village of
          >> Jawornik
          >> near Sanok in July. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks! Amy
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
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