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Re: Burczyk Family

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  • t_ryder@sbcglobal.net
    Hi Philip, After putting my mother in a nursing home, I found an old piece of paper while going through some things. The paper was from a Catholic priest
    Message 1 of 10 , May 28, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Philip,

      After putting my mother in a nursing home, I found an old piece of paper while going through some things. The paper was from a Catholic priest (Father Marion) that lived in Poland and was a good friend of the family. He listed the family members and quite a few dates for our family. Since that time I found people on the Geni web site that are in the Sanok area and are also doing research on their family. We compared notes and have determined that they are relatives. They also have part of the archives from Father Marion, but mine went back further. My records indicate an approximate birth date of around 1750 for Andrzej Burczyk. That is where my search came to a halt and I am looking for info beyond that date. He was married to a Zofia, but that is all I know about her. My wife and I want to travel to the Sanok/Dlugie area, but want to get more family info before we go.

      Hope to find some help on this site.

      Regards

      Tom


      --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, Philip Semanchuk <philip@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > On May 26, 2009, at 5:35 PM, t_ryder@... wrote:
      >
      > > Greetings,
      > >
      > > I have been working on the genealogy of my mothers side (Burczyk) of
      > > the family and have traced my family to the 1750 era and am stalled
      > > at that period. She was born in the Sanok area and immigrated with
      > > her parents to the U.S. when she was four years old. I am
      > > specifically looking for information on Burczyk family members that
      > > may have been related to Andrzej (Andrew) Burczyk that lived in or
      > > near the cities of Sanok or Dlugie, Poland around the 1750's. He
      > > was married to Zofia (Sofia). If you have possibly traced your
      > > family history and have any information that may be of some help,
      > > please contact me at:
      >
      > Hi Tom,
      > Welcome to the list!
      >
      > Well done on tracing your family back so far. I rarely hear of anyone
      > getting past the 1780s. Record-keeping was organized before the
      > Austrians took over, or that's the impression I get, anyway. May I ask
      > how you've had such rare success?
      >
      >
      > Cheers
      > Philip
      >
    • Philip Semanchuk
      ... Tom, You re in rarefied air; not many of us make it back that far. You understand that the Austrians took over Poland in the 1780s, yes? One of the first
      Message 2 of 10 , May 28, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        On May 28, 2009, at 4:12 PM, t_ryder@... wrote:

        > Hi Philip,
        >
        > After putting my mother in a nursing home, I found an old piece of
        > paper while going through some things. The paper was from a
        > Catholic priest (Father Marion) that lived in Poland and was a good
        > friend of the family. He listed the family members and quite a few
        > dates for our family. Since that time I found people on the Geni
        > web site that are in the Sanok area and are also doing research on
        > their family. We compared notes and have determined that they are
        > relatives. They also have part of the archives from Father Marion,
        > but mine went back further. My records indicate an approximate
        > birth date of around 1750 for Andrzej Burczyk. That is where my
        > search came to a halt and I am looking for info beyond that date.
        > He was married to a Zofia, but that is all I know about her. My wife
        > and I want to travel to the Sanok/Dlugie area, but want to get more
        > family info before we go.

        Tom,
        You're in rarefied air; not many of us make it back that far. You
        understand that the Austrians took over Poland in the 1780s, yes? One
        of the first things they did was survey their new holdings (have to
        figure out how to tax these things you know) and institute better
        record-keeping.

        The oldest accessible records I know of are a set of tax maps referred
        to as the 1787 cadastral records. Accessibility is relative and in
        this case by "accessible" I mean that people know where they are
        (mostly in archives in Sanok, Przemsyl and L'viv, at least for the
        areas that concern the Bukowsko Triangle) and have actually seen and
        in some cases copied them. Here's an example:
        http://semanchuk.com/gen/data/WolaPiotrowa/1852CadastralMaps/

        The Austrians also insisted on regular keeping of vital records
        (births, marriages, deaths) and if you're lucky some of the early
        records have survived. If you're luckier still, those records are in a
        relatively friendly archive -- we've had varying levels of success at
        different archives. Some are easier to deal with than others.

        But still, those records only get you back to the 1780s and my guess
        is that your relatives have already seen those records for your family
        and that's how they inferred the ~1750 birth of Andrzej Burczyk.

        Pre-Austrian records are a subject I (we) don't have much experience
        with. That's not to say they don't exist. On the contrary I have a
        feeling that there's some interesting stuff that's accessible. I'm
        sure the Poles were diligent about assessing taxes too. =) But that
        info would all be in Polish or Ukrainian and you'd have to know what
        you were looking for.

        Debbie and I had a conversation about pre-Austrian records on the list
        some time ago and as usual Debbie had a whole lot more information
        than me. I can't find that conversation now. :-/


        If you're in or willing to travel to NYC, there's a book in the public
        library there that may be of use. If so let me know and I'll dig up
        the reference.

        bye for now
        Philip






        > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, Philip Semanchuk
        > <philip@...> wrote:
        >>
        >>
        >> On May 26, 2009, at 5:35 PM, t_ryder@... wrote:
        >>
        >>> Greetings,
        >>>
        >>> I have been working on the genealogy of my mothers side (Burczyk) of
        >>> the family and have traced my family to the 1750 era and am stalled
        >>> at that period. She was born in the Sanok area and immigrated with
        >>> her parents to the U.S. when she was four years old. I am
        >>> specifically looking for information on Burczyk family members that
        >>> may have been related to Andrzej (Andrew) Burczyk that lived in or
        >>> near the cities of Sanok or Dlugie, Poland around the 1750's. He
        >>> was married to Zofia (Sofia). If you have possibly traced your
        >>> family history and have any information that may be of some help,
        >>> please contact me at:
        >>
        >> Hi Tom,
        >> Welcome to the list!
        >>
        >> Well done on tracing your family back so far. I rarely hear of anyone
        >> getting past the 1780s. Record-keeping was organized before the
        >> Austrians took over, or that's the impression I get, anyway. May I
        >> ask
        >> how you've had such rare success?
        >>
        >>
        >> Cheers
        >> Philip
        >>
        >
        >
      • Debbie Greenlee
        Tom, I read Philip s reply and am pleased that he has that civil information at hand. I agree with everything he wrote, for what it s worth. The first
        Message 3 of 10 , May 29, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Tom,

          I read Philip's reply and am pleased that he has that civil
          information "at hand." I agree with everything he wrote, for what
          it's worth.

          The first _civil_ records were not recorded in Poland/Austrian
          controlled Poland until 1784 after the Austrians took over and even
          then they were copies of the church's records. Eventually the
          Austrians realized it was a good idea to have their own set of records
          and this system, recording events at the church and the USC office,
          continues today.

          I will add that you might do better looking for church records. I say
          this because the parish books for marriages and baptisms became
          compulsory for the Catholic Church after November 11, 156, the date of
          the "Decretum de reformatione matrimonii" (decree about the reform of
          the marriage) of the Ecumenical Council of Trent. The dates of the
          R.C. parish books which I assume are approximately valid everywhere are:

          1565 - Marriages
          1566 - Baptisms
          1687 - Deaths

          This really does not mean that you'll find books going back this far.
          Wars, weather, housekeeping etc. have contributed to the loss of some
          records. However, I think you stand a better chance of locating more
          church records than those of Fr. Marion.

          In order to do further research you (we) would need to know the
          village and parish involved. You didn't specifically mention either one.

          BTW There is at least one person on this list who's doing research in
          Dl~ugie.

          You might also be interested in the photos on this web site:
          http://www.polishfamily.com
          Click on Bukowsko, (the first) Dlugie, and Sanok. I've got photos of
          other BT villages on the site as well.

          Congrats on going so far back! Once we get the Bukowsko church records
          on line "we" should be able to go back to about 1787 in actual records.

          Debbie

          t_ryder@... wrote:
          > Hi Philip,
          >
          > After putting my mother in a nursing home, I found an old piece of paper
          while going through some things. The paper was from a Catholic priest
          (Father Marion) that lived in Poland and was a good friend of the
          family.
          He listed the family members and quite a few dates for our family.
          Since
          that time I found people on the Geni web site that are in the Sanok area
          and are also doing research on their family. We compared notes and have
          determined that they are relatives. They also have part of the archives
          from Father Marion, but mine went back further. My records indicate an
          approximate birth date of around 1750 for Andrzej Burczyk. That is
          where
          my search came to a halt and I am looking for info beyond that date. He
          was married to a Zofia, but that is all I know about her. My wife and I
          want to travel to the Sanok/Dlugie area, but want to get more family
          info
          before we go.
          >
          > Hope to find some help on this site.
          >
          > Regards
          > Tom
          >
          >
          > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, Philip Semanchuk <philip@...> wrote:
          >> On May 26, 2009, at 5:35 PM, t_ryder@... wrote:
          >>
          >>> Greetings,
          >>>
          >>> I have been working on the genealogy of my mothers side (Burczyk) of
          >>> the family and have traced my family to the 1750 era and am stalled
          >>> at that period. She was born in the Sanok area and immigrated with
          >>> her parents to the U.S. when she was four years old. I am
          >>> specifically looking for information on Burczyk family members that
          >>> may have been related to Andrzej (Andrew) Burczyk that lived in or
          >>> near the cities of Sanok or Dlugie, Poland around the 1750's. He
          >>> was married to Zofia (Sofia). If you have possibly traced your
          >>> family history and have any information that may be of some help,
          >>> please contact me at:


          >> Hi Tom,
          >> Welcome to the list!
          >>
          >> Well done on tracing your family back so far. I rarely hear of anyone
          >> getting past the 1780s. Record-keeping was organized before the
          >> Austrians took over, or that's the impression I get, anyway. May I ask
          >> how you've had such rare success?
          >>
          >>
          >> Cheers
          >> PhilipTom,
          You're in rarefied air; not many of us make it back that far. You
          understand that the Austrians took over Poland in the 1780s, yes? One
          of the first things they did was survey their new holdings (have to
          figure out how to tax these things you know) and institute better
          record-keeping.

          The oldest accessible records I know of are a set of tax maps referred
          to as the 1787 cadastral records. Accessibility is relative and in
          this case by "accessible" I mean that people know where they are
          (mostly in archives in Sanok, Przemsyl and L'viv, at least for the
          areas that concern the Bukowsko Triangle) and have actually seen and
          in some cases copied them. Here's an example:
          http://semanchuk.com/gen/data/WolaPiotrowa/1852CadastralMaps/

          The Austrians also insisted on regular keeping of vital records
          (births, marriages, deaths) and if you're lucky some of the early
          records have survived. If you're luckier still, those records are in a
          relatively friendly archive -- we've had varying levels of success at
          different archives. Some are easier to deal with than others.

          But still, those records only get you back to the 1780s and my guess
          is that your relatives have already seen those records for your family
          and that's how they inferred the ~1750 birth of Andrzej Burczyk.

          Pre-Austrian records are a subject I (we) don't have much experience
          with. That's not to say they don't exist. On the contrary I have a
          feeling that there's some interesting stuff that's accessible. I'm
          sure the Poles were diligent about assessing taxes too. =) But that
          info would all be in Polish or Ukrainian and you'd have to know what
          you were looking for.

          Debbie and I had a conversation about pre-Austrian records on the list
          some time ago and as usual Debbie had a whole lot more information
          than me. I can't find that conversation now. :-/


          If you're in or willing to travel to NYC, there's a book in the public
          library there that may be of use. If so let me know and I'll dig up
          the reference.

          bye for now
          Philip
        • fwegerson@comcast.net
          Debbie, I must be one of those researchers of Dlugie/Sanok you were referring to in the message below regarding the Burczyk family. I introduced myself to Tom
          Message 4 of 10 , May 29, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Debbie,

            I must be one of those researchers of Dlugie/Sanok you were referring
            to in the message below regarding the Burczyk family. I introduced myself
            to Tom when I first saw his post to BK and we've exchanged a couple of
            messages since. Your reference to http://www.polishfamily.com is a great
            place for anyone to learn more about this area. Suggest adding Zarszyn
            to the list of specific places to view.

            The web site www.dlugie.ksmap.pl/parafia.html is in Polish but I had the
            section on the history of Dlugie translated to English. I'll be glad to send
            it in WORD format to anyone interested if they'll send me their email address.

            Has anyone had success going through Austrian Military Records in Galicia?
            PolishRoots described this source as a way to view a town by town list of
            regiments recruiting in particular towns year by year. Sanok was listed back
            to the late 1700's, but to see the details one must have access to LDS
            records (I think). Any suggestions?

            Frank
            Brentwood, TN



            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Debbie Greenlee
            To: bukowsko triangle
            Sent: Fri, 29 May 2009 13:48:39 +0000 (UTC)
            Subject: Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Re: Burczyk FamilyTom,

            I read Philip's reply and am pleased that he has that civil information at hand." I agree with everything he wrote, for what it's worth.
            The first _civil_ records were not recorded in Poland/Austrian controlled Poland until 1784 after the Austrians took over and even
            then they were copies of the church's records. Eventually the
            Austrians realized it was a good idea to have their own set of ecords
            and this system, recording events at the church and the USC office,
            continues today.

            I will add that you might do better looking for church records. I say
            this because the parish books for marriages and baptisms became
            compulsory for the Catholic Church after November 11, 156, the date of the "Decretum de reformatione matrimonii" (decree about the reform of the marriage) of the Ecumenical Council of Trent. The dates of the R.C. parish books which I assume are approximately valid everywhere are:
            1565 - Marriages
            1566 - Baptisms
            1687 - Deaths
            This really does not mean that you'll find books going back this far.
            Wars, weather, housekeeping etc. have contributed to the loss of some records. However, I think you stand a better chance of locating more church records than those of Fr. Marion.
            In order to do further research you (we) would need to know the
            village and parish involved. You didn't specifically mention either one.

            BTW There is at least one person on this list who's doing research in
            Dl~ugie.

            You might also be interested in the photos on this web site:
            http://www.polishfamily.com
            Click on Bukowsko, (the first) Dlugie, and Sanok. I've got photos of
            other BT villages on the site as well.

            Congrats on going so far back! Once we get the Bukowsko church records on line "we" should be able to go back to about 1787 in actual records.

            Debbie


            t_ryder@... wrote:

            > Hi Philip,>

            > After putting my mother in a nursing home, I found an old piece of paper while going through some things. The paper was from a Catholic priest (Father Marion) that lived in Poland and was a good friend of the family.
            He listed the family members and quite a few dates for our family.
            Since that time I found people on the Geni web site that are in the Sanok area and are also doing research on their family. We compared notes and have determined that they are relatives. They also have part of the archives from Father Marion, but mine went back further. My records indicate an approximate birth date of around 1750 for Andrzej Burczyk. That is where my search came to a halt and I am looking for info beyond that date. He was married to a Zofia, but that is all I know about her. My wife and I want to travel to the Sanok/Dlugie area, but want to get more family info before we go.

            > Hope to find some help on this site.>

            > Regards

            > Tom

            >

            >

            > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, Philip Semanchuk wrote:

            >> On May 26, 2009, at 5:35 PM, t_ryder@... wrote:

            >>

            >>> Greetings,

            >>>

            >>> I have been working on the genealogy of my mothers side (Burczyk) of

            >>> the family and have traced my family to the 1750 era and am stalled

            >>> at that period. She was born in the Sanok area and immigrated with

            >>> her parents to the U.S. when she was four years old. I am

            >>> specifically looking for information on Burczyk family members that

            >>> may have been related to Andrzej (Andrew) Burczyk that lived in or

            >>> near the cities of Sanok or Dlugie, Poland around the 1750's. He

            >>> was married to Zofia (Sofia). If you have possibly traced your

            >>> family history and have any information that may be of some help,

            >>> please contact me at:



            >> Hi Tom,

            >> Welcome to the list!

            >>

            >> Well done on tracing your family back so far. I rarely hear of anyone

            >> getting past the 1780s. Record-keeping was organized before the

            >> Austrians took over, or that's the impression I get, anyway. May I ask

            >> how you've had such rare success?

            >>

            >>

            >> Cheers

            >> PhilipTom,

            You're in rarefied air; not many of us make it back that far. You

            understand that the Austrians took over Poland in the 1780s, yes? One

            of the first things they did was survey their new holdings (have to

            figure out how to tax these things you know) and institute better

            record-keeping.



            The oldest accessible records I know of are a set of tax maps referred

            to as the 1787 cadastral records. Accessibility is relative and in

            this case by "accessible" I mean that people know where they are

            (mostly in archives in Sanok, Przemsyl and L'viv, at least for the

            areas that concern the Bukowsko Triangle) and have actually seen and

            in some cases copied them. Here's an example:

            http://semanchuk.com/gen/data/WolaPiotrowa/1852CadastralMaps/



            The Austrians also insisted on regular keeping of vital records

            (births, marriages, deaths) and if you're lucky some of the early

            records have survived. If you're luckier still, those records are in a

            relatively friendly archive -- we've had varying levels of success at

            different archives. Some are easier to deal with than others.



            But still, those records only get you back to the 1780s and my guess

            is that your relatives have already seen those records for your family

            and that's how they inferred the ~1750 birth of Andrzej Burczyk.



            Pre-Austrian records are a subject I (we) don't have much experience

            with. That's not to say they don't exist. On the contrary I have a

            feeling that there's some interesting stuff that's accessible. I'm

            sure the Poles were diligent about assessing taxes too. =) But that

            info would all be in Polish or Ukrainian and you'd have to know what

            you were looking for.



            Debbie and I had a conversation about pre-Austrian records on the list

            some time ago and as usual Debbie had a whole lot more information

            than me. I can't find that conversation now. :-/



            If you're in or willing to travel to NYC, there's a book in the public

            library there that may be of use. If so let me know and I'll dig up

            the reference.



            bye for now

            Philip




























            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Philip Semanchuk
            ... Frank, I don t know much about military records, but LDS records are no further away than your local Mormon church in Brentwood. You ve got a few from
            Message 5 of 10 , May 29, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              On May 29, 2009, at 10:36 AM, fwegerson@... wrote:

              > Has anyone had success going through Austrian Military Records in
              > Galicia?
              > PolishRoots described this source as a way to view a town by town
              > list of
              > regiments recruiting in particular towns year by year. Sanok was
              > listed back
              > to the late 1700's, but to see the details one must have access to LDS
              > records (I think). Any suggestions?

              Frank,
              I don't know much about military records, but LDS records are no
              further away than your local Mormon church in Brentwood. You've got a
              few from which to choose:
              http://www.google.com/search?q=lds+Brentwood%2C+TN

              If you dig into this, let us know what you find out!

              Hope this helps
              Philip


              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Debbie Greenlee
              > To: bukowsko triangle
              > Sent: Fri, 29 May 2009 13:48:39 +0000 (UTC)
              > Subject: Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Re: Burczyk FamilyTom,
              >
              > I read Philip's reply and am pleased that he has that civil
              > information at hand." I agree with everything he wrote, for what
              > it's worth.
              > The first _civil_ records were not recorded in Poland/Austrian
              > controlled Poland until 1784 after the Austrians took over and even
              > then they were copies of the church's records. Eventually the
              > Austrians realized it was a good idea to have their own set of ecords
              > and this system, recording events at the church and the USC office,
              > continues today.
              >
              > I will add that you might do better looking for church records. I say
              > this because the parish books for marriages and baptisms became
              > compulsory for the Catholic Church after November 11, 156, the date
              > of the "Decretum de reformatione matrimonii" (decree about the
              > reform of the marriage) of the Ecumenical Council of Trent. The
              > dates of the R.C. parish books which I assume are approximately
              > valid everywhere are:
              > 1565 - Marriages
              > 1566 - Baptisms
              > 1687 - Deaths
              > This really does not mean that you'll find books going back this far.
              > Wars, weather, housekeeping etc. have contributed to the loss of
              > some records. However, I think you stand a better chance of locating
              > more church records than those of Fr. Marion.
              > In order to do further research you (we) would need to know the
              > village and parish involved. You didn't specifically mention either
              > one.
              >
              > BTW There is at least one person on this list who's doing research in
              > Dl~ugie.
              >
              > You might also be interested in the photos on this web site:
              > http://www.polishfamily.com
              > Click on Bukowsko, (the first) Dlugie, and Sanok. I've got photos of
              > other BT villages on the site as well.
              >
              > Congrats on going so far back! Once we get the Bukowsko church
              > records on line "we" should be able to go back to about 1787 in
              > actual records.
              >
              > Debbie
              >
              >
              > t_ryder@... wrote:
              >
              >> Hi Philip,>
              >
              >> After putting my mother in a nursing home, I found an old piece of
              >> paper while going through some things. The paper was from a
              >> Catholic priest (Father Marion) that lived in Poland and was a good
              >> friend of the family.
              > He listed the family members and quite a few dates for our family.
              > Since that time I found people on the Geni web site that are in
              > the Sanok area and are also doing research on their family. We
              > compared notes and have determined that they are relatives. They
              > also have part of the archives from Father Marion, but mine went
              > back further. My records indicate an approximate birth date of
              > around 1750 for Andrzej Burczyk. That is where my search came to a
              > halt and I am looking for info beyond that date. He was married to
              > a Zofia, but that is all I know about her. My wife and I want to
              > travel to the Sanok/Dlugie area, but want to get more family info
              > before we go.
              >
              >> Hope to find some help on this site.>
              >
              >> Regards
              >
              >> Tom
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >> --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, Philip Semanchuk wrote:
              >
              >>> On May 26, 2009, at 5:35 PM, t_ryder@... wrote:
              >
              >>>
              >
              >>>> Greetings,
              >
              >>>>
              >
              >>>> I have been working on the genealogy of my mothers side (Burczyk)
              >>>> of
              >
              >>>> the family and have traced my family to the 1750 era and am stalled
              >
              >>>> at that period. She was born in the Sanok area and immigrated with
              >
              >>>> her parents to the U.S. when she was four years old. I am
              >
              >>>> specifically looking for information on Burczyk family members that
              >
              >>>> may have been related to Andrzej (Andrew) Burczyk that lived in or
              >
              >>>> near the cities of Sanok or Dlugie, Poland around the 1750's. He
              >
              >>>> was married to Zofia (Sofia). If you have possibly traced your
              >
              >>>> family history and have any information that may be of some help,
              >
              >>>> please contact me at:
              >
              >
              >
              >>> Hi Tom,
              >
              >>> Welcome to the list!
              >
              >>>
              >
              >>> Well done on tracing your family back so far. I rarely hear of
              >>> anyone
              >
              >>> getting past the 1780s. Record-keeping was organized before the
              >
              >>> Austrians took over, or that's the impression I get, anyway. May I
              >>> ask
              >
              >>> how you've had such rare success?
              >
              >>>
              >
              >>>
              >
              >>> Cheers
              >
              >>> PhilipTom,
              >
              > You're in rarefied air; not many of us make it back that far. You
              >
              > understand that the Austrians took over Poland in the 1780s, yes? One
              >
              > of the first things they did was survey their new holdings (have to
              >
              > figure out how to tax these things you know) and institute better
              >
              > record-keeping.
              >
              >
              >
              > The oldest accessible records I know of are a set of tax maps referred
              >
              > to as the 1787 cadastral records. Accessibility is relative and in
              >
              > this case by "accessible" I mean that people know where they are
              >
              > (mostly in archives in Sanok, Przemsyl and L'viv, at least for the
              >
              > areas that concern the Bukowsko Triangle) and have actually seen and
              >
              > in some cases copied them. Here's an example:
              >
              > http://semanchuk.com/gen/data/WolaPiotrowa/1852CadastralMaps/
              >
              >
              >
              > The Austrians also insisted on regular keeping of vital records
              >
              > (births, marriages, deaths) and if you're lucky some of the early
              >
              > records have survived. If you're luckier still, those records are in a
              >
              > relatively friendly archive -- we've had varying levels of success at
              >
              > different archives. Some are easier to deal with than others.
              >
              >
              >
              > But still, those records only get you back to the 1780s and my guess
              >
              > is that your relatives have already seen those records for your family
              >
              > and that's how they inferred the ~1750 birth of Andrzej Burczyk.
              >
              >
              >
              > Pre-Austrian records are a subject I (we) don't have much experience
              >
              > with. That's not to say they don't exist. On the contrary I have a
              >
              > feeling that there's some interesting stuff that's accessible. I'm
              >
              > sure the Poles were diligent about assessing taxes too. =) But that
              >
              > info would all be in Polish or Ukrainian and you'd have to know what
              >
              > you were looking for.
              >
              >
              >
              > Debbie and I had a conversation about pre-Austrian records on the list
              >
              > some time ago and as usual Debbie had a whole lot more information
              >
              > than me. I can't find that conversation now. :-/
              >
              >
              >
              > If you're in or willing to travel to NYC, there's a book in the public
              >
              > library there that may be of use. If so let me know and I'll dig up
              >
              > the reference.
              >
              >
              >
              > bye for now
              >
              > Philip
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Janet George
              Debbie: Just wondering how the transcription of the Bukowsko church records is going.  Recently I have spent some time on records from my non-Bukowsko Polish
              Message 6 of 10 , May 30, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Debbie:

                Just wondering how the transcription of the Bukowsko church records is going.  Recently I have spent some time on records from my non-Bukowsko Polish ancestors and due to some successes with locating relatives, I can't wait to see the Bukowsko records published.  That work also made me appreciate how much work it will be for you to transcribe the records.

                Janet



                ________________________________
                From: Debbie Greenlee <daveg@...>
                To: bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 9:48:39 AM
                Subject: Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Re: Burczyk Family





                Tom,

                I read Philip's reply and am pleased that he has that civil
                information "at hand." I agree with everything he wrote, for what
                it's worth.

                The first _civil_ records were not recorded in Poland/Austrian
                controlled Poland until 1784 after the Austrians took over and even
                then they were copies of the church's records. Eventually the
                Austrians realized it was a good idea to have their own set of records
                and this system, recording events at the church and the USC office,
                continues today.

                I will add that you might do better looking for church records. I say
                this because the parish books for marriages and baptisms became
                compulsory for the Catholic Church after November 11, 156, the date of
                the "Decretum de reformatione matrimonii" (decree about the reform of
                the marriage) of the Ecumenical Council of Trent. The dates of the
                R.C. parish books which I assume are approximately valid everywhere are:

                1565 - Marriages
                1566 - Baptisms
                1687 - Deaths

                This really does not mean that you'll find books going back this far.
                Wars, weather, housekeeping etc. have contributed to the loss of some
                records. However, I think you stand a better chance of locating more
                church records than those of Fr. Marion.

                In order to do further research you (we) would need to know the
                village and parish involved. You didn't specifically mention either one.

                BTW There is at least one person on this list who's doing research in
                Dl~ugie.

                You might also be interested in the photos on this web site:
                http://www.polishfamily.com
                Click on Bukowsko, (the first) Dlugie, and Sanok. I've got photos of
                other BT villages on the site as well.

                Congrats on going so far back! Once we get the Bukowsko church records
                on line "we" should be able to go back to about 1787 in actual records.

                Debbie

                t_ryder@sbcglobal. net wrote:
                > Hi Philip,
                >
                > After putting my mother in a nursing home, I found an old piece of paper
                while going through some things. The paper was from a Catholic priest
                (Father Marion) that lived in Poland and was a good friend of the
                family.
                He listed the family members and quite a few dates for our family.
                Since
                that time I found people on the Geni web site that are in the Sanok area
                and are also doing research on their family. We compared notes and have
                determined that they are relatives. They also have part of the archives
                from Father Marion, but mine went back further. My records indicate an
                approximate birth date of around 1750 for Andrzej Burczyk. That is
                where
                my search came to a halt and I am looking for info beyond that date. He
                was married to a Zofia, but that is all I know about her. My wife and I
                want to travel to the Sanok/Dlugie area, but want to get more family
                info
                before we go.
                >
                > Hope to find some help on this site.
                >
                > Regards
                > Tom
                >
                >
                > --- In bukowsko_triangle@ yahoogroups. com, Philip Semanchuk <philip@...> wrote:
                >> On May 26, 2009, at 5:35 PM, t_ryder@... wrote:
                >>
                >>> Greetings,
                >>>
                >>> I have been working on the genealogy of my mothers side (Burczyk) of
                >>> the family and have traced my family to the 1750 era and am stalled
                >>> at that period. She was born in the Sanok area and immigrated with
                >>> her parents to the U.S. when she was four years old. I am
                >>> specifically looking for information on Burczyk family members that
                >>> may have been related to Andrzej (Andrew) Burczyk that lived in or
                >>> near the cities of Sanok or Dlugie, Poland around the 1750's. He
                >>> was married to Zofia (Sofia). If you have possibly traced your
                >>> family history and have any information that may be of some help,
                >>> please contact me at:

                >> Hi Tom,
                >> Welcome to the list!
                >>
                >> Well done on tracing your family back so far. I rarely hear of anyone
                >> getting past the 1780s. Record-keeping was organized before the
                >> Austrians took over, or that's the impression I get, anyway. May I ask
                >> how you've had such rare success?
                >>
                >>
                >> Cheers
                >> PhilipTom,
                You're in rarefied air; not many of us make it back that far. You
                understand that the Austrians took over Poland in the 1780s, yes? One
                of the first things they did was survey their new holdings (have to
                figure out how to tax these things you know) and institute better
                record-keeping.

                The oldest accessible records I know of are a set of tax maps referred
                to as the 1787 cadastral records. Accessibility is relative and in
                this case by "accessible" I mean that people know where they are
                (mostly in archives in Sanok, Przemsyl and L'viv, at least for the
                areas that concern the Bukowsko Triangle) and have actually seen and
                in some cases copied them. Here's an example:
                http://semanchuk. com/gen/data/ WolaPiotrowa/ 1852CadastralMap s/

                The Austrians also insisted on regular keeping of vital records
                (births, marriages, deaths) and if you're lucky some of the early
                records have survived. If you're luckier still, those records are in a
                relatively friendly archive -- we've had varying levels of success at
                different archives. Some are easier to deal with than others.

                But still, those records only get you back to the 1780s and my guess
                is that your relatives have already seen those records for your family
                and that's how they inferred the ~1750 birth of Andrzej Burczyk.

                Pre-Austrian records are a subject I (we) don't have much experience
                with. That's not to say they don't exist. On the contrary I have a
                feeling that there's some interesting stuff that's accessible. I'm
                sure the Poles were diligent about assessing taxes too. =) But that
                info would all be in Polish or Ukrainian and you'd have to know what
                you were looking for.

                Debbie and I had a conversation about pre-Austrian records on the list
                some time ago and as usual Debbie had a whole lot more information
                than me. I can't find that conversation now. :-/

                If you're in or willing to travel to NYC, there's a book in the public
                library there that may be of use. If so let me know and I'll dig up
                the reference.

                bye for now
                Philip







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Debbie Greenlee
                Janet, Right now there are only three active volunteers (includes myself) plus my editor so it is very slow going. I am hoping though to put three marriage
                Message 7 of 10 , May 31, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Janet,

                  Right now there are only three "active" volunteers (includes myself)
                  plus my editor so it is very slow going. I am hoping though to put
                  three marriage volumes on Philip's site this summer while continuing
                  with more marriage books. We are currently translating Vol IV,
                  1850-1883. The books "going online" will cover 1787-1850.

                  Also, a volunteer is indexing the surnames found in the Bukowsko
                  section of the "Spis." This too, is slow going but considering the
                  condition of this book and handwriting . . .
                  We are only indexing the Bukowsko residents in the "Spis" because I
                  translated and put on Philip's site, all the other village residents'
                  information in the "Spis." The Bukowsko section is so large I was
                  afraid "we'd" never get to translate it so I decided indexing was the
                  next best thing.

                  In my own research and doing research for others in the BT I have
                  found that the "Spis" can in many cases, fill-in for missing records.
                  Unfortunately, if you don't know what house (new, old, current)
                  someone lived in it can be very tedious and time consuming to locate a
                  particular family. Having an index should help so eventually people
                  will be able to contact me with their requests for information from
                  the "Spis."

                  Though I don't get too many requests for researching any of the books,
                  when I do, the fee I charge is sent to the priest in Bukowsko. If
                  someone lives in Poland and requests searches then they make their
                  donations directly to the priest in Bukowsko.


                  More than you asked for!

                  Debbie


                  Janet George wrote:
                  > Debbie:
                  >
                  > Just wondering how the transcription of the Bukowsko church records is
                  going. Recently I have spent some time on records from my non-Bukowsko
                  Polish ancestors and due to some successes with locating relatives, I
                  can't wait to see the Bukowsko records published. That work also made
                  me appreciate how much work it will be for you to transcribe the
                  records.
                  >
                  > Janet
                • Jackson Szczyrbak
                  Frank I believe that my mother (Kowalczyk) was born in Dlugie.  I would be very interested in getting a copy of the history of Dlugie in English.  My email
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 2, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Frank

                    I believe that my mother (Kowalczyk) was born in Dlugie. 

                    I would be very interested in getting a copy of the history of Dlugie in English.  My email is JackFromPA1955@.... 

                    Jack


                    --- On Fri, 5/29/09, fwegerson@... <fwegerson@...> wrote:

                    From: fwegerson@... <fwegerson@...>
                    Subject: [bukowsko_triangle] Re: Burczyk Family
                    To: "bukowsko triangle" <bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com>
                    Date: Friday, May 29, 2009, 10:36 AM

















                    Debbie,



                    I must be one of those researchers of Dlugie/Sanok you were referring

                    to in the message below regarding the Burczyk family. I introduced myself

                    to Tom when I first saw his post to BK and we've exchanged a couple of

                    messages since. Your reference to http://www.polishfa mily.com is a great

                    place for anyone to learn more about this area. Suggest adding Zarszyn

                    to the list of specific places to view.



                    The web site www.dlugie.ksmap. pl/parafia. html is in Polish but I had the

                    section on the history of Dlugie translated to English. I'll be glad to send

                    it in WORD format to anyone interested if they'll send me their email address.



                    Has anyone had success going through Austrian Military Records in Galicia?

                    PolishRoots described this source as a way to view a town by town list of

                    regiments recruiting in particular towns year by year. Sanok was listed back

                    to the late 1700's, but to see the details one must have access to LDS

                    records (I think). Any suggestions?



                    Frank

                    Brentwood, TN



                    ----- Original Message -----

                    From: Debbie Greenlee

                    To: bukowsko triangle

                    Sent: Fri, 29 May 2009 13:48:39 +0000 (UTC)

                    Subject: Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Re: Burczyk FamilyTom,



                    I read Philip's reply and am pleased that he has that civil information at hand." I agree with everything he wrote, for what it's worth.

                    The first _civil_ records were not recorded in Poland/Austrian controlled Poland until 1784 after the Austrians took over and even

                    then they were copies of the church's records. Eventually the

                    Austrians realized it was a good idea to have their own set of ecords

                    and this system, recording events at the church and the USC office,

                    continues today.



                    I will add that you might do better looking for church records. I say

                    this because the parish books for marriages and baptisms became

                    compulsory for the Catholic Church after November 11, 156, the date of the "Decretum de reformatione matrimonii" (decree about the reform of the marriage) of the Ecumenical Council of Trent. The dates of the R.C. parish books which I assume are approximately valid everywhere are:

                    1565 - Marriages

                    1566 - Baptisms

                    1687 - Deaths

                    This really does not mean that you'll find books going back this far.

                    Wars, weather, housekeeping etc. have contributed to the loss of some records. However, I think you stand a better chance of locating more church records than those of Fr. Marion.

                    In order to do further research you (we) would need to know the

                    village and parish involved. You didn't specifically mention either one.



                    BTW There is at least one person on this list who's doing research in

                    Dl~ugie.



                    You might also be interested in the photos on this web site:

                    http://www.polishfa mily.com

                    Click on Bukowsko, (the first) Dlugie, and Sanok. I've got photos of

                    other BT villages on the site as well.



                    Congrats on going so far back! Once we get the Bukowsko church records on line "we" should be able to go back to about 1787 in actual records.



                    Debbie



                    t_ryder@sbcglobal. net wrote:



                    > Hi Philip,>



                    > After putting my mother in a nursing home, I found an old piece of paper while going through some things. The paper was from a Catholic priest (Father Marion) that lived in Poland and was a good friend of the family.

                    He listed the family members and quite a few dates for our family.

                    Since that time I found people on the Geni web site that are in the Sanok area and are also doing research on their family. We compared notes and have determined that they are relatives. They also have part of the archives from Father Marion, but mine went back further. My records indicate an approximate birth date of around 1750 for Andrzej Burczyk. That is where my search came to a halt and I am looking for info beyond that date. He was married to a Zofia, but that is all I know about her. My wife and I want to travel to the Sanok/Dlugie area, but want to get more family info before we go.



                    > Hope to find some help on this site.>



                    > Regards



                    > Tom



                    >



                    >



                    > --- In bukowsko_triangle@ yahoogroups. com, Philip Semanchuk wrote:



                    >> On May 26, 2009, at 5:35 PM, t_ryder@... wrote:



                    >>



                    >>> Greetings,



                    >>>



                    >>> I have been working on the genealogy of my mothers side (Burczyk) of



                    >>> the family and have traced my family to the 1750 era and am stalled



                    >>> at that period. She was born in the Sanok area and immigrated with



                    >>> her parents to the U.S. when she was four years old. I am



                    >>> specifically looking for information on Burczyk family members that



                    >>> may have been related to Andrzej (Andrew) Burczyk that lived in or



                    >>> near the cities of Sanok or Dlugie, Poland around the 1750's. He



                    >>> was married to Zofia (Sofia). If you have possibly traced your



                    >>> family history and have any information that may be of some help,



                    >>> please contact me at:



                    >> Hi Tom,



                    >> Welcome to the list!



                    >>



                    >> Well done on tracing your family back so far. I rarely hear of anyone



                    >> getting past the 1780s. Record-keeping was organized before the



                    >> Austrians took over, or that's the impression I get, anyway. May I ask



                    >> how you've had such rare success?



                    >>



                    >>



                    >> Cheers



                    >> PhilipTom,



                    You're in rarefied air; not many of us make it back that far. You



                    understand that the Austrians took over Poland in the 1780s, yes? One



                    of the first things they did was survey their new holdings (have to



                    figure out how to tax these things you know) and institute better



                    record-keeping.



                    The oldest accessible records I know of are a set of tax maps referred



                    to as the 1787 cadastral records. Accessibility is relative and in



                    this case by "accessible" I mean that people know where they are



                    (mostly in archives in Sanok, Przemsyl and L'viv, at least for the



                    areas that concern the Bukowsko Triangle) and have actually seen and



                    in some cases copied them. Here's an example:



                    http://semanchuk. com/gen/data/ WolaPiotrowa/ 1852CadastralMap s/



                    The Austrians also insisted on regular keeping of vital records



                    (births, marriages, deaths) and if you're lucky some of the early



                    records have survived. If you're luckier still, those records are in a



                    relatively friendly archive -- we've had varying levels of success at



                    different archives. Some are easier to deal with than others.



                    But still, those records only get you back to the 1780s and my guess



                    is that your relatives have already seen those records for your family



                    and that's how they inferred the ~1750 birth of Andrzej Burczyk.



                    Pre-Austrian records are a subject I (we) don't have much experience



                    with. That's not to say they don't exist. On the contrary I have a



                    feeling that there's some interesting stuff that's accessible. I'm



                    sure the Poles were diligent about assessing taxes too. =) But that



                    info would all be in Polish or Ukrainian and you'd have to know what



                    you were looking for.



                    Debbie and I had a conversation about pre-Austrian records on the list



                    some time ago and as usual Debbie had a whole lot more information



                    than me. I can't find that conversation now. :-/



                    If you're in or willing to travel to NYC, there's a book in the public



                    library there that may be of use. If so let me know and I'll dig up



                    the reference.



                    bye for now



                    Philip



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]































                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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