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Re: Accessing Ukrainian Church Records in Jersey City

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  • Bob Breen
    ... Debbie: Thanks for all the inputs. I will incorporate them into my letter and see what happens. Although my family has left Jersey City, I am trying to
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 28, 2009
      --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, Debbie Greenlee <daveg@...>
      wrote:
      >
      Debbie:

      Thanks for all the inputs. I will incorporate them into my letter and
      see what happens. Although my family has left Jersey City, I am
      trying to find out if anyone knows people who are still involved with
      the Church to see if I can't get a personal contact.

      If I find out any information that the group might be interested in I
      will post again.


      > Bob,
      >
      > About a year ago (April I think) supposedly a letter went out to
      all
      > the Roman Catholic diocese in the world, from the Vatican, stating
      > that LDS was no longer allowed to film RC records. This has not
      been
      > confirmed (not for lack of trying). If this is fact, then it is
      > possible that individual priests/bishops have decided that no one
      can
      > browse/film their records. Of course that doesn't mean the church
      has
      > increased their employees to do the research instead and make money.
      >
      > If I were you I'd send the letter making sure to include the
      > following, "How can I make a donation to the church in honor of my
      > grandfather." Also, make sure to write, "If you do not have the
      > records I would appreciate knowing where they are located."
      >
      > Generally, U.S. parishes haven't been all that accommodating when
      it
      > comes to allowing an individual to browse their records. This could
      be
      > because they are not set-up for that sort of thing and don't want
      to
      > pay someone (secretary/clerk) to watch you.
      >
      > Another issue you may encounter is that the records are too recent.
      > Archives around the world like to keep their records private until
      > they are 50-100 years old.
      >
      > Developing a personal relationship with the priest might help.
      Tough
      > to do long distance though.
      >
      > For encouragement:
      > Several years ago I requested the Chicago diocesan orphanage
      records
      > of two great uncles. They were placed in the orphanage when their
      > oldest brother was 22 (they were 3 and 6) and who, eventually, took
      > them out of the orphanage. So, no secrets in the family about this.
      > I wrote to the archdiocese and got nowhere. I visited the
      archdiocesan
      > archives and found out what would _probably_ be necessary to get
      most
      > of the records. One uncle was already deceased, one was still
      living
      > and he approved of my request. After two years of the archives
      trying
      > to dissuade and dismiss me, two letters from my attorney, death
      cert,n
      > notarized letter from the living uncle, I finally received most of
      the
      > papers. I don't remember now what they didn't send.
      >
      > Well, just two months ago, I sent the deceased uncle's son a copy
      of
      > all the papers pertaining to his dad. He was thrilled to have
      > information that probably greatly influenced his father's path in
      > life. (The father, my great uncle, didn't get into crime, drugs,
      etc.)
      >
      > And of course there's the story of how long it took me to get "next
      > to" the Bukowsko RC priest. About 10 years, numerous visits,
      donations
      > etc. Now we're buddies. ;)
      >
      > Don't give up. Find out for yourself what the priest will allow.
      >
      > Debbie
      >
      >
      > Bob Breen wrote:
      > > Debbie:
      > >
      > > Here's the story. I've drafted a letter to the Jersey City Parish
      > > church to request the opportunity to go there and view there
      records.
      > > I shared it with a few people. One person told me that about a
      year
      > > ago the priest had given him permission to do this as well, but
      > > before he got there the Archbishop nixed the idea. He didn't seem
      to
      > > know why. I don't know if this is for some local reason or
      something
      > > more general. I figured if I had some idea what the issue was,
      > > perhaps I could address it in my letter and increase my chances
      of
      > > success. No matter what, I will make the request, I think we have
      a
      > > good reason that goes beyond just my own family information.
      > >
      > > Bob
      > >
      > > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, Debbie Greenlee
      <daveg@>
      > > wrote:
      > >> Bob,
      > >>
      > >> Do you mean the Ukrainian archdiocese won't allow "browsing" of
      its
      > >> records?
      > >>
      > >> Debbie
      > >>
      > >> Bob Breen wrote:
      > >>> Since you folks are very knowledgeable about researching family
      > > history
      > >>> I was wondering if you might have some inputs for me on a topic
      > > that is
      > >>> not within the "triangle".
      > >>>
      > >>> My Grandfather was born in Blechnarka in 1874. By 1900 he and
      his
      > >>> family were living in Jersey City. What is emerging is that
      there
      > > were
      > >>> a number of families from Blechnarka in that same are of
      Jersey
      > > City
      > >>> and many of the family names are showing up among his
      ancestors.
      > > I
      > >>> think there is the potential for a number of new "cousins".
      > >>>
      > >>> My family and many of the others were members of Sts Peter and
      > > Paul
      > >>> Ukrainian Church in Jersey City (from about 1900 until the
      > > 1960's) and
      > >>> rather then making requests for specific records a couple at a
      > > time, I
      > >>> would like to ask if I could look over their record books to
      see
      > > if I
      > >>> can piece together a number of the possible connections between
      > > my
      > >>> family and the others.
      > >>>
      > >>> I have been told that the Archdiocese which includes Jersey
      City
      > > has
      > >>> not approved such requests in the past, but I have no idea why
      or
      > >>> whether I might be able to say/do something that would
      influence
      > > them
      > >>> to grant permission this time.
      > >>>
      > >>> Any help or ideas would be appreciated.
      > >>>
      > >>> For those who may be interested the family names from the area
      of
      > >>> Blechnarka we have identified with a possible connection
      include:
      > >>> Babej, Demianczyk, Dziubin, Kopcha, Kuryla, Mamrosz, Patrosz,
      > > Rydzyk,
      > >>> Tchir.
      > >>>
      > >>> Bob Breen
      > >>> Brick, Ocean County, New Jersey
      > >>
      >
    • Bob Breen
      Just to closeout this thread. I got a phone call from the Church secretary who politely declined my request, primarily citing privacy issues of allowing anyone
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 18 5:32 AM
        Just to closeout this thread. I got a phone call from the Church secretary who politely declined my request, primarily citing privacy issues of allowing anyone to view all the information on the pages of the registers. She did say they would respond to indvidual, specific inquiries about family members. I think there might be some "wiggle room" in exactly what constitutes "family members" and/or "specific", but I did not pursue. I have previously gotten information from them by writing a letter aasking about marriages in specific years and including a small donation. We did have a short conversation in which she told me that many of the records from the "old Church" on Green(?) St have not survived. I don't know enough about the history of SS Peter & Paul to know exactly what this statement means, but I suspect she was referrring to records in the pre 1905 time frame.


        --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Breen" <bob4x4fun@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, Debbie Greenlee <daveg@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > Debbie:
        >
        > Thanks for all the inputs. I will incorporate them into my letter and
        > see what happens. Although my family has left Jersey City, I am
        > trying to find out if anyone knows people who are still involved with
        > the Church to see if I can't get a personal contact.
        >
        > If I find out any information that the group might be interested in I
        > will post again.
        >
        >
        > > Bob,
        > >
        > > About a year ago (April I think) supposedly a letter went out to
        > all
        > > the Roman Catholic diocese in the world, from the Vatican, stating
        > > that LDS was no longer allowed to film RC records. This has not
        > been
        > > confirmed (not for lack of trying). If this is fact, then it is
        > > possible that individual priests/bishops have decided that no one
        > can
        > > browse/film their records. Of course that doesn't mean the church
        > has
        > > increased their employees to do the research instead and make money.
        > >
        > > If I were you I'd send the letter making sure to include the
        > > following, "How can I make a donation to the church in honor of my
        > > grandfather." Also, make sure to write, "If you do not have the
        > > records I would appreciate knowing where they are located."
        > >
        > > Generally, U.S. parishes haven't been all that accommodating when
        > it
        > > comes to allowing an individual to browse their records. This could
        > be
        > > because they are not set-up for that sort of thing and don't want
        > to
        > > pay someone (secretary/clerk) to watch you.
        > >
        > > Another issue you may encounter is that the records are too recent.
        > > Archives around the world like to keep their records private until
        > > they are 50-100 years old.
        > >
        > > Developing a personal relationship with the priest might help.
        > Tough
        > > to do long distance though.
        > >
        > > For encouragement:
        > > Several years ago I requested the Chicago diocesan orphanage
        > records
        > > of two great uncles. They were placed in the orphanage when their
        > > oldest brother was 22 (they were 3 and 6) and who, eventually, took
        > > them out of the orphanage. So, no secrets in the family about this.
        > > I wrote to the archdiocese and got nowhere. I visited the
        > archdiocesan
        > > archives and found out what would _probably_ be necessary to get
        > most
        > > of the records. One uncle was already deceased, one was still
        > living
        > > and he approved of my request. After two years of the archives
        > trying
        > > to dissuade and dismiss me, two letters from my attorney, death
        > cert,n
        > > notarized letter from the living uncle, I finally received most of
        > the
        > > papers. I don't remember now what they didn't send.
        > >
        > > Well, just two months ago, I sent the deceased uncle's son a copy
        > of
        > > all the papers pertaining to his dad. He was thrilled to have
        > > information that probably greatly influenced his father's path in
        > > life. (The father, my great uncle, didn't get into crime, drugs,
        > etc.)
        > >
        > > And of course there's the story of how long it took me to get "next
        > > to" the Bukowsko RC priest. About 10 years, numerous visits,
        > donations
        > > etc. Now we're buddies. ;)
        > >
        > > Don't give up. Find out for yourself what the priest will allow.
        > >
        > > Debbie
        > >
        > >
        > > Bob Breen wrote:
        > > > Debbie:
        > > >
        > > > Here's the story. I've drafted a letter to the Jersey City Parish
        > > > church to request the opportunity to go there and view there
        > records.
        > > > I shared it with a few people. One person told me that about a
        > year
        > > > ago the priest had given him permission to do this as well, but
        > > > before he got there the Archbishop nixed the idea. He didn't seem
        > to
        > > > know why. I don't know if this is for some local reason or
        > something
        > > > more general. I figured if I had some idea what the issue was,
        > > > perhaps I could address it in my letter and increase my chances
        > of
        > > > success. No matter what, I will make the request, I think we have
        > a
        > > > good reason that goes beyond just my own family information.
        > > >
        > > > Bob
        > > >
        > > > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, Debbie Greenlee
        > <daveg@>
        > > > wrote:
        > > >> Bob,
        > > >>
        > > >> Do you mean the Ukrainian archdiocese won't allow "browsing" of
        > its
        > > >> records?
        > > >>
        > > >> Debbie
        > > >>
        > > >> Bob Breen wrote:
        > > >>> Since you folks are very knowledgeable about researching family
        > > > history
        > > >>> I was wondering if you might have some inputs for me on a topic
        > > > that is
        > > >>> not within the "triangle".
        > > >>>
        > > >>> My Grandfather was born in Blechnarka in 1874. By 1900 he and
        > his
        > > >>> family were living in Jersey City. What is emerging is that
        > there
        > > > were
        > > >>> a number of families from Blechnarka in that same are of
        > Jersey
        > > > City
        > > >>> and many of the family names are showing up among his
        > ancestors.
        > > > I
        > > >>> think there is the potential for a number of new "cousins".
        > > >>>
        > > >>> My family and many of the others were members of Sts Peter and
        > > > Paul
        > > >>> Ukrainian Church in Jersey City (from about 1900 until the
        > > > 1960's) and
        > > >>> rather then making requests for specific records a couple at a
        > > > time, I
        > > >>> would like to ask if I could look over their record books to
        > see
        > > > if I
        > > >>> can piece together a number of the possible connections between
        > > > my
        > > >>> family and the others.
        > > >>>
        > > >>> I have been told that the Archdiocese which includes Jersey
        > City
        > > > has
        > > >>> not approved such requests in the past, but I have no idea why
        > or
        > > >>> whether I might be able to say/do something that would
        > influence
        > > > them
        > > >>> to grant permission this time.
        > > >>>
        > > >>> Any help or ideas would be appreciated.
        > > >>>
        > > >>> For those who may be interested the family names from the area
        > of
        > > >>> Blechnarka we have identified with a possible connection
        > include:
        > > >>> Babej, Demianczyk, Dziubin, Kopcha, Kuryla, Mamrosz, Patrosz,
        > > > Rydzyk,
        > > >>> Tchir.
        > > >>>
        > > >>> Bob Breen
        > > >>> Brick, Ocean County, New Jersey
        > > >>
        > >
        >
      • Philip Semanchuk
        ... Thanks for the followup; it s useful. ... I think your instincts are correct and that if you went there in person the wiggle room would increase. I hope
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 18 6:50 AM
          On Mar 18, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Bob Breen wrote:

          > Just to closeout this thread.

          Thanks for the followup; it's useful.


          > I got a phone call from the Church secretary who politely declined
          > my request, primarily citing privacy issues of allowing anyone to
          > view all the information on the pages of the registers. She did say
          > they would respond to indvidual, specific inquiries about family
          > members. I think there might be some "wiggle room" in exactly what
          > constitutes "family members" and/or "specific", but I did not pursue.

          I think your instincts are correct and that if you went there in
          person the wiggle room would increase. I hope you can make it there
          someday.

          Cheers
          Philip



          > I have previously gotten information from them by writing a letter
          > aasking about marriages in specific years and including a small
          > donation. We did have a short conversation in which she told me that
          > many of the records from the "old Church" on Green(?) St have not
          > survived. I don't know enough about the history of SS Peter & Paul
          > to know exactly what this statement means, but I suspect she was
          > referrring to records in the pre 1905 time frame.
          >
          >
          > --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Breen"
          > <bob4x4fun@...> wrote:
          >>
          >> --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, Debbie Greenlee <daveg@>
          >> wrote:
          >>>
          >> Debbie:
          >>
          >> Thanks for all the inputs. I will incorporate them into my letter and
          >> see what happens. Although my family has left Jersey City, I am
          >> trying to find out if anyone knows people who are still involved with
          >> the Church to see if I can't get a personal contact.
          >>
          >> If I find out any information that the group might be interested in I
          >> will post again.
          >>
          >>
          >>> Bob,
          >>>
          >>> About a year ago (April I think) supposedly a letter went out to
          >> all
          >>> the Roman Catholic diocese in the world, from the Vatican, stating
          >>> that LDS was no longer allowed to film RC records. This has not
          >> been
          >>> confirmed (not for lack of trying). If this is fact, then it is
          >>> possible that individual priests/bishops have decided that no one
          >> can
          >>> browse/film their records. Of course that doesn't mean the church
          >> has
          >>> increased their employees to do the research instead and make money.
          >>>
          >>> If I were you I'd send the letter making sure to include the
          >>> following, "How can I make a donation to the church in honor of my
          >>> grandfather." Also, make sure to write, "If you do not have the
          >>> records I would appreciate knowing where they are located."
          >>>
          >>> Generally, U.S. parishes haven't been all that accommodating when
          >> it
          >>> comes to allowing an individual to browse their records. This could
          >> be
          >>> because they are not set-up for that sort of thing and don't want
          >> to
          >>> pay someone (secretary/clerk) to watch you.
          >>>
          >>> Another issue you may encounter is that the records are too recent.
          >>> Archives around the world like to keep their records private until
          >>> they are 50-100 years old.
          >>>
          >>> Developing a personal relationship with the priest might help.
          >> Tough
          >>> to do long distance though.
          >>>
          >>> For encouragement:
          >>> Several years ago I requested the Chicago diocesan orphanage
          >> records
          >>> of two great uncles. They were placed in the orphanage when their
          >>> oldest brother was 22 (they were 3 and 6) and who, eventually, took
          >>> them out of the orphanage. So, no secrets in the family about this.
          >>> I wrote to the archdiocese and got nowhere. I visited the
          >> archdiocesan
          >>> archives and found out what would _probably_ be necessary to get
          >> most
          >>> of the records. One uncle was already deceased, one was still
          >> living
          >>> and he approved of my request. After two years of the archives
          >> trying
          >>> to dissuade and dismiss me, two letters from my attorney, death
          >> cert,n
          >>> notarized letter from the living uncle, I finally received most of
          >> the
          >>> papers. I don't remember now what they didn't send.
          >>>
          >>> Well, just two months ago, I sent the deceased uncle's son a copy
          >> of
          >>> all the papers pertaining to his dad. He was thrilled to have
          >>> information that probably greatly influenced his father's path in
          >>> life. (The father, my great uncle, didn't get into crime, drugs,
          >> etc.)
          >>>
          >>> And of course there's the story of how long it took me to get "next
          >>> to" the Bukowsko RC priest. About 10 years, numerous visits,
          >> donations
          >>> etc. Now we're buddies. ;)
          >>>
          >>> Don't give up. Find out for yourself what the priest will allow.
          >>>
          >>> Debbie
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> Bob Breen wrote:
          >>>> Debbie:
          >>>>
          >>>> Here's the story. I've drafted a letter to the Jersey City Parish
          >>>> church to request the opportunity to go there and view there
          >> records.
          >>>> I shared it with a few people. One person told me that about a
          >> year
          >>>> ago the priest had given him permission to do this as well, but
          >>>> before he got there the Archbishop nixed the idea. He didn't seem
          >> to
          >>>> know why. I don't know if this is for some local reason or
          >> something
          >>>> more general. I figured if I had some idea what the issue was,
          >>>> perhaps I could address it in my letter and increase my chances
          >> of
          >>>> success. No matter what, I will make the request, I think we have
          >> a
          >>>> good reason that goes beyond just my own family information.
          >>>>
          >>>> Bob
          >>>>
          >>>> --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, Debbie Greenlee
          >> <daveg@>
          >>>> wrote:
          >>>>> Bob,
          >>>>>
          >>>>> Do you mean the Ukrainian archdiocese won't allow "browsing" of
          >> its
          >>>>> records?
          >>>>>
          >>>>> Debbie
          >>>>>
          >>>>> Bob Breen wrote:
          >>>>>> Since you folks are very knowledgeable about researching family
          >>>> history
          >>>>>> I was wondering if you might have some inputs for me on a topic
          >>>> that is
          >>>>>> not within the "triangle".
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>> My Grandfather was born in Blechnarka in 1874. By 1900 he and
          >> his
          >>>>>> family were living in Jersey City. What is emerging is that
          >> there
          >>>> were
          >>>>>> a number of families from Blechnarka in that same are of
          >> Jersey
          >>>> City
          >>>>>> and many of the family names are showing up among his
          >> ancestors.
          >>>> I
          >>>>>> think there is the potential for a number of new "cousins".
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>> My family and many of the others were members of Sts Peter and
          >>>> Paul
          >>>>>> Ukrainian Church in Jersey City (from about 1900 until the
          >>>> 1960's) and
          >>>>>> rather then making requests for specific records a couple at a
          >>>> time, I
          >>>>>> would like to ask if I could look over their record books to
          >> see
          >>>> if I
          >>>>>> can piece together a number of the possible connections between
          >>>> my
          >>>>>> family and the others.
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>> I have been told that the Archdiocese which includes Jersey
          >> City
          >>>> has
          >>>>>> not approved such requests in the past, but I have no idea why
          >> or
          >>>>>> whether I might be able to say/do something that would
          >> influence
          >>>> them
          >>>>>> to grant permission this time.
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>> Any help or ideas would be appreciated.
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>> For those who may be interested the family names from the area
          >> of
          >>>>>> Blechnarka we have identified with a possible connection
          >> include:
          >>>>>> Babej, Demianczyk, Dziubin, Kopcha, Kuryla, Mamrosz, Patrosz,
          >>>> Rydzyk,
          >>>>>> Tchir.
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>> Bob Breen
          >>>>>> Brick, Ocean County, New Jersey
          >>>>>
          >>>
          >>
          >
          >
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