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Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Some questions, please.

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  • Philip Semanchuk
    ... Sofia was from Pobiedno which wasn t in the Wolica parish, and the records you re looking at cover only the parish of Wolica. Pobiedno was in another
    Message 1 of 20 , Nov 14, 2003
      Mailkimg2@... wrote:
      > After pouring through the WZBR records for weeks now, I have found nothing
      > about the mother of Julia Tarnawczyk, aka Sofia Cypcar. She is written into the
      > records on several occasions, as is Stanislaw, but the last name changes
      > every mentioning.

      Sofia was from Pobiedno which wasn't in the Wolica parish, and the
      records you're looking at cover only the parish of Wolica. Pobiedno was
      in another parish; anyone know which one? I don't.

      > I have seen Cypcar written as Czypcaz, and I believe I saw it as Czipyk. I
      > have also seen a Czepyk connected to the Tarnawczyks in the Book.

      In the WZBR records, take the spellings with a grain of salt. They're
      not perfect. If you haven't read the FAQ yet, now might be a good time
      to do so, especially the questions, "Why does my ancestor's name vary
      across records?", "Why are some of these records so hard to read?" and
      "Are these records accurate?"
      http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/wzbr/faq.html

      > Is there a list of surnames somewhere of the BT families? If so, maybe
      > there, I could go through the Cs?

      I created a list of the surnames as they appear in the WZBR book. That's
      not the same thing as you asked for, but it might help:
      http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/wzbr/surnames.html


      Peace
      Philip
    • Debbie
      Kim, Where would I find that, Debbie? I can translate for you what I can read in the record. Except it will be correct this time. Actually, you probably
      Message 2 of 20 , Nov 14, 2003
        Kim,
        "Where would I find that, Debbie?" I can translate for you what I can
        read in the record. Except it will be correct this time. Actually, you
        probably already know all of it from Philip. ;) See below.

        "Julia Tarnawczyk is" your great grandmother and Zofia Cypcar takes you
        another generation back. Zofia is your great great grandmother. You've
        got 5 generations now.

        Out of curiosity, what state do you live in? Philip took some photos of
        graves in Minersville, PA. and I know there were at least a couple
        Tarnawczyks and Kowalczyks. Of course this is US not Poland cemetery.

        John = Jan (Polish) = Joannes (Latin) = Ioannes(Latin) = Ivan (Ukraine?)

        The record states:
        Julia Tarnawczyk was born September 1, 1884 in house #23 in Wolica and
        was baptized September 3, 1884 (in the Greek Catholic Church in Wolica).
        Her father is Josef Tarnawczyk who was the son of Michal~ Tarnawczyk and
        Maria Kowalczyk from Wolica.
        Julia's mother is Zofia Cypcar, who was the daughter of Stanisl~aw and
        Petronella Cypcar from Pobiedno.
        Julia's god parents were Michal~ Kowalczyk and Salomea, wife of Jan.
        (Evidently everyone knew JAN!!)

        Sorry I added to the confusion. Migraine. Long day. The cats are
        fighting. The guy behind me is cutting down a tree. It's snowing in
        Texas. Not really.

        Debbie

        Mailkimg2@... wrote:
        > Well, until I can figure out who Julia Tarnawczyk's mother is, I'm not sure
        > -- LOL!
        >
        > Did you want a translation of everything that was listed for Julia's
        > baptism also?
        >
        > Where would I find that, Debbie?
        > Julia Tarnawczyk is my father's father's mother.
        >
        > Whoops...I had it right in front of me, too. Sorry about that.
        > Yes, Julia's father was Joseph Tarnawczyk. Joseph Tarnawczyk's parents were
        > Maria/Mario Kowalczyk and Michaelis Tarnawczyk.
        > Funny...there are more name differences here, too -- Michaelis's father is
        > listed as a Joannis, Ioannes, and Ivanus.
        >
        > By the way...is there anyone here researching the Tarnawczyks or the Kowalczyks?
        >
        > BTW "Mario" should be Maria Kowalczyk, Julia Tarnawczyk's mother and
        > Michal~ Tarnawczyk's wife.
        > Kim
      • Philip Semanchuk
        ... This is also covered in the FAQ, under the question Why is my grandfather named Joan? : http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/wzbr/faq.html Bye P
        Message 3 of 20 , Nov 14, 2003
          Mailkimg2@... wrote:
          > Funny...there are more name differences here, too -- Michaelis's father is
          > listed as a Joannis, Ioannes, and Ivanus.

          This is also covered in the FAQ, under the question "Why is my
          grandfather named Joan?":
          http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/wzbr/faq.html

          Bye
          P
        • Mailkimg2@aol.com
          In a message dated 11/14/2003 10:57:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, daveg@airmail.net writes: Out of curiosity, what state do you live in? Philip took some photos
          Message 4 of 20 , Nov 14, 2003
            In a message dated 11/14/2003 10:57:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
            daveg@... writes:
            Out of curiosity, what state do you live in? Philip took some photos of
            graves in Minersville, PA. and I know there were at least a couple
            Tarnawczyks and Kowalczyks. Of course this is US not Poland cemetery.
            Well, I grew up in NJ. Julia lived in Sayreville, NJ, and is buried there
            with her husband. My Godmother has given me some copies of photos of Julia when
            she was a young mother.

            One of her son's...my grandfather, died only last year. He was one of the
            greatest people I've ever known. One of her daughter's just died last Saturday,
            in NJ. Julia has one surviving daughter living in Texas.

            At present, I know of no connection to PA families, but who knows?

            Julia was married to her husband in South River, NJ on 14 OCT 1907. Their
            two witnesses were Joannes Rog and Marianna Kot. I mention this because I
            thought I saw a Kot in "the Book."

            I'd love to know about the Tarnawczyks and Kowalczyks who immigrated to the
            US.

            Kim :)


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Debbie
            Philip and Kim, The Greek Catholic parish for Pobiedno was in Pielnia. The Roman Catholic parish for Pobiedno was in Dudyn~ce. Both according to Brian Lenius,
            Message 5 of 20 , Nov 14, 2003
              Philip and Kim,
              The Greek Catholic parish for Pobiedno was in Pielnia.
              The Roman Catholic parish for Pobiedno was in Dudyn~ce.
              Both according to Brian Lenius, _Genealogical Gazetteer of Galicia._

              Debbie

              Philip Semanchuk wrote:
              > Sofia was from Pobiedno which wasn't in the Wolica parish, and the
              > records you're looking at cover only the parish of Wolica. Pobiedno was
              > in another parish; anyone know which one? I don't.
              > Peace
              > Philip
              >
            • Debbie
              Kim, What is your aunt s name and where in Texas is she? I m in central Texas. You can answer me privately if you wish on this question. Hmmm. It s going to be
              Message 6 of 20 , Nov 14, 2003
                Kim,
                What is your aunt's name and where in Texas is she? I'm in central
                Texas. You can answer me privately if you wish on this question.

                Hmmm. It's going to be difficult locating (even just records)
                Tarnawczyks and Kowalczyk that immigrated to the US unless you first
                have all the names and possible dates. The names can be obtained
                (hopefully) by writing to Julia's parish in Poland and requesting her
                parents marriage record along with their siblings baptismal records. You
                can then go farther back. Once you have names of possible immigrants you
                can start looking at Passenger Arrival Record indexes/soundexes.
                However, not knowing the port of arrival makes this a long and tedious
                job. Really not worth the effort. Well, you might as well search the
                Ellis Island web site for New York arrivals. Not finding someone on this
                site does NOT mean the person didn't come through New York. There are
                so many errors on this site it's a wonder anyone finds people. Pay close
                attention to whom the passenger states he is going to and whom he left
                back home. If you find someone with the same surname, search the page
                before and after for others with that surname or others who have left
                Wolica, Pobiedno, etc.

                In a few weeks you might check with other family members to see if they
                have photos of Julia so you can make copies. Also get up the nerve to
                ask about important papers. Chances are Julia's oldest daughter has/had
                them.

                You might also check with the churches in Sayreville to see if they have
                any Jubilee books that might have information and pictures of your
                relatives. Check the federal and state (if there was one in 1905,1915)
                census to see if you can locate any other people with these surnames
                living in New Jersey.

                Up until two years ago I had no idea that I had a Polish relative in
                France!
                Debbie

                Mailkimg2@... wrote:
                > In a message dated 11/14/2003 10:57:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                > daveg@... writes:
                > Out of curiosity, what state do you live in? Philip took some photos of
                > graves in Minersville, PA. and I know there were at least a couple
                > Tarnawczyks and Kowalczyks. Of course this is US not Poland cemetery.
                > Well, I grew up in NJ. Julia lived in Sayreville, NJ, and is buried there
                > with her husband. My Godmother has given me some copies of photos of Julia when
                > she was a young mother.
                >
                > One of her son's...my grandfather, died only last year. He was one of the
                > greatest people I've ever known. One of her daughter's just died last Saturday,
                > in NJ. Julia has one surviving daughter living in Texas.
                >
                > At present, I know of no connection to PA families, but who knows?
                >
                > Julia was married to her husband in South River, NJ on 14 OCT 1907. Their
                > two witnesses were Joannes Rog and Marianna Kot. I mention this because I
                > thought I saw a Kot in "the Book."
                >
                > I'd love to know about the Tarnawczyks and Kowalczyks who immigrated to the
                > US.
                > Kim :)
              • Jackson Szczyrbak
                Kim Have you looked up the name Tarnawczyk on the Ellis Island Site at http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/EIDB/ellis.html There were three listed. One Tesko,
                Message 7 of 20 , Nov 14, 2003
                  Kim

                  Have you looked up the name Tarnawczyk on the Ellis Island Site at http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/EIDB/ellis.html

                  There were three listed. One Tesko, age 17, arrived in 1908, from Wolica and was going to Minersville Pa. Next to him was a Felix Hadick, age 48, also from Wolica and going to Minersville.

                  The other Iwan, age 17, was from Ulicza and was going to his uncle (cannot read first name) Zot or possible Kot? in Minersville, also.

                  I could not find the correct manifest for the third name listed.

                  BTW, my mother maiden name was Kowalczyk and she came from Dl~ugie. I believe her parents came from Pielnia.

                  Jack


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Mailkimg2@...
                  To: bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 11:23 PM
                  Subject: Re: [bukowsko_triangle] Some questions, please.


                  In a message dated 11/14/2003 10:57:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                  daveg@... writes:
                  Out of curiosity, what state do you live in? Philip took some photos of
                  graves in Minersville, PA. and I know there were at least a couple
                  Tarnawczyks and Kowalczyks. Of course this is US not Poland cemetery.
                  Well, I grew up in NJ. Julia lived in Sayreville, NJ, and is buried there
                  with her husband. My Godmother has given me some copies of photos of Julia when
                  she was a young mother.

                  One of her son's...my grandfather, died only last year. He was one of the
                  greatest people I've ever known. One of her daughter's just died last Saturday,
                  in NJ. Julia has one surviving daughter living in Texas.

                  At present, I know of no connection to PA families, but who knows?

                  Julia was married to her husband in South River, NJ on 14 OCT 1907. Their
                  two witnesses were Joannes Rog and Marianna Kot. I mention this because I
                  thought I saw a Kot in "the Book."

                  I'd love to know about the Tarnawczyks and Kowalczyks who immigrated to the
                  US.

                  Kim :)


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Mailkimg2@aol.com
                  I know that Julia age 18 came over on 25 May 1903 to Ellis Island aboard the Dresden. Katarzyna Tarnawczyk age 20 from Wolica came over on 29 Nov 1905. Jan
                  Message 8 of 20 , Nov 14, 2003
                    I know that Julia age 18 came over on 25 May 1903 to Ellis Island aboard the
                    Dresden.

                    Katarzyna Tarnawczyk age 20 from Wolica came over on 29 Nov 1905.

                    Jan Tarnawczyk from Wolica, age 40, came over on 23 May 1900.

                    There are a few more, but I *have* to get to bed, or I will be overrun by my
                    7 and 5 year old in the morning. LOL!

                    Kim :)


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Laurence Krupnak
                    Hello, RE: Joan It should be Ioan/Ioann which is Old Slavic form of Ivan (John). [In the early Greek bibles it appeared as Ioannes, and therefore in Old
                    Message 9 of 20 , Nov 15, 2003
                      Hello,

                      RE: Joan

                      It should be Ioan/Ioann which is Old Slavic form of Ivan (John).

                      [In the early Greek bibles it appeared as Ioannes, and therefore in
                      Old Slavonic it appears as Ioann. Ioannes was adopted Latinists. In
                      Polish John is Jan, thus Joannes appears in many Latin versions.
                      Johannes comes from German.]

                      _____

                      Lavrentiy


                      .
                      .


                      Philip Semanchuk wrote:
                      >
                      > Mailkimg2@... wrote:
                      > > Funny...there are more name differences here, too -- Michaelis's
                      > father is
                      > > listed as a Joannis, Ioannes, and Ivanus.
                      >
                      > This is also covered in the FAQ, under the question "Why is my
                      > grandfather named Joan?":
                      > http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/wzbr/faq.html
                      >
                      > Bye
                      > P
                    • Mailkimg2@aol.com
                      Thank you for all the links, Philip. They were helpful, indeed, and some are now bookmarked. Kim :) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Message 10 of 20 , Nov 16, 2003
                        Thank you for all the links, Philip. They were helpful, indeed, and some are
                        now bookmarked.

                        Kim :)


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • krupniak
                        ... The above (jurisdiction) is a complicated topic. I assume the parish is during the Austrian-era. If so, Orthodoxy was forbidden by the Austrians in
                        Message 11 of 20 , Nov 17, 2003
                          --- In bukowsko_triangle@yahoogroups.com, Debbie <daveg@a...> wrote:

                          > Kim,
                          > These records were written mostly in Latin for events that took place in
                          > a Ukrainian (Greek Orthodox) church in Wolica.


                          The above (jurisdiction) is a complicated topic. I assume the parish is during the Austrian-era. If so, Orthodoxy was forbidden by
                          the Austrians in Galicia, thus the parish was under a Greek Catholic (aka Uniate) jusrisdiction.




                          > Are you researching "Cypcar?"





                          I need to see the name in cyrillic. It could be Tspliar (in Polish transliteration it is Cyplar).




                          > "Stanislai" should be Stanisl~aw (in Polish)



                          Stanislav in Rusyn/Ukrainian.



                          > 1. Correct spelling of what? Cypcar? I don't think it's Polish. I know
                          > there is a surname book available for Ukrainian names but I don't have
                          > it. I think Lavrentiy does but he may not be on this list anymore.


                          It could be Tspliar....but I need to see the name in cyrillic. What is the origin of the spelling Cypcar (Tsptsar)?




                          > 4. "A" house #23 probably still exists in Wolica. Wether it's the same
                          > house #23 as mentioned in the record is unknown. I have information that
                          > states the church in Wolica is the original (built in early 1800s) even
                          > though it has been renovated, not burned down.


                          Sts. Peter and Paul (Orthodox/Greek Catholic) parish was established in 1572 (at a different location... it was on a hill in the
                          village). Then it was moved to center of Wolica. It was used until 1820, when it was closed and then reopened in 1826? The
                          tserkva (church) was renovated in 1907 and 1911. After Akcja Wisla, the tserkva was converted to a Roman Catholic kostel (church),
                          and the church's Byzantine-type characteristics were changed to Latin-type characterististics.



                          > It's possible Wolica
                          > escaped the ravages of war and the UPA. Houses are numbered according to
                          > the order they were built. House #23 was the 32nd house built in Wolica.
                          > It could be sitting in between house #4 and
                          > house #251. If house #32 was or had to be torn down, the house that was
                          > then built on that same property very well could have a different number
                          > now.
                          > You'd have to do some investigating to find out if Wolica homes have
                          > been renumbered (Bukowsko has twice). I would think a letter to the
                          > gmina office in Bukowsko, asking what year the house was built would do
                          > it.
                          >
                          > BTW "Mario" should be Maria Kowalczyk, Julia Tarnawczyk's mother and
                          > Michal~ Tarnawczyk's wife.
                          >
                          > Hope some of this helps you.
                          > Debbie
                          >
                          > Mailkimg2@a... wrote:
                          > > Julia
                          > >
                          > > 231 Sep '84fyJosef TarnawczykMichaelis TarnawczykMario Kowalczyk rustici in
                          > > WolicaSofia CypcarStanislaiPetronelo ex PobidnoWolicaMichael Kowalczyk Salomea uxor ???
                          > >
                          > > http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/wzbr/ShowImage.php?record=11&page=093
                          > >
                          > > Hello everyone! I'm wondering if anyone can tell me anything about these
                          > > people --
                          > >
                          > > Sofia Cypcar
                          > > Stanislai Cypcar
                          > > Stanislai's wife, Petronelo
                          > >
                          > >1. Does anyone know the correct spelling, or the one most likely?
                          > >2. What does ex Pobidno mean after Petronelo's name?
                          > >3. What is meant by Michael Tarnawczyk Salomeo uxor?
                          > >
                          > > Thank you for your help. I'm newer here, so I apologize if it's silly that I
                          > > don't understand the meaning, and don't yet know where to find the answers.
                          > > I love reading all your posts, and have learned so much already.
                          > >
                          > >4. Does anyone know if House # 23 still exists in Wolica?
                          > > Thank you very much.
                          > > Kim :)
                        • Laurence Krupnak
                          ... Intended to type Tsypliar.
                          Message 12 of 20 , Nov 17, 2003
                            krupniak wrote:


                            >
                            > I need to see the name in cyrillic. It could be Tspliar


                            Intended to type Tsypliar.


                            > (in Polish transliteration it is Cyplar).
                          • Mailkimg2@aol.com
                            Lavrentiy, Thank you. Good grief, I have a lot to learn. Kim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            Message 13 of 20 , Nov 18, 2003
                              Lavrentiy,

                              Thank you. Good grief, I have a lot to learn.

                              Kim


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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